This is a poll to see what the current Stand Up Rider Memebers of NAPKA or those of you who are about to join. I would like to just see your answer, not a debate. The question has been posed as to what may be more comfortable for S.U.R.. No decision is going to be made in the next week. We would just like to see what would work best for the members.

As it stands in NAPKA rules now, S.U.R. need to wear a high vis vest with their numbers displayed front and back for identification puruposes while at a NAPKA sanctioned event. We have had a small discussion within the officers and would like to ask you the members for your input as you are the ones that are effected by the discussion.

Here is the options.
1-The current High Visibility orange or green vest with numbers displayed

2-Flourescent Armband I.D. holder that you wear on your arm or leg that has a velcro attachment and a clear vinyl area to hold your number

3. A ski type bib with a number panel.

I will try and post a picture of all three options. I may need some help from Sam for that

Which ever we go with, it needs to be the same for everyone. This does not have to be changed at all, we would just like to put the option up to you the member that will have to wear the appropriate identifying equipment.

high visibility safety vest
Flourescent Armband I.D. holder
Ski race typ Bib

If we need to or if you want to try something out, I can purchase one of each and send them out to a couple of you for a test run and see what you like. We want to see if there is interest in coming up with something more fitting for you the rider.

vest seems like the simplest/least expensive choice
but I do have a phone holder that may work for the armband

I did not mean for prices to be posted, I just don't know how to do the just picture thing like Sam does!

SAM HELP!!!!

Thanks Nick!

I really would prefer not to wear a vest or bib.

What he said.

Thanks Nick for fixing the pictures! I still have to figure that out.

This is why we are asking the question.

Number plates on buggies will still be the same.

Thanks for responding, this will help a lot.

Thanks in advance for all the great leadership you are showing.

I have been thinking about this for a while and the armbands are sitting best with me by far .

I think that the high vis' vest are a good idea for foggy beaches on foggy days. I already carry one for personal use but only feel comfortable using it if conditions dictate. The arm bands can be the standard and if certian chapters see a need for high vis' vests due to unique locations they can request that guests to those events wear them combined with the standard arm bands.

now that I think about it the arm band has kinda won me over switch my vote :duh:

I would like to see the "number size" be changed to a smaller size and go with the arm band.

Arm band
But I'm thinking of making a set of shirts just for kiting that have numbers sewn on. or velcro

plus there is a strangulation hazard with the bib and it would be difficult to wear a vest if you are using a waist harness.
I have a nice comfortable vest i normally use for disc golf during hunting season, but i can easily modify it to chow numbers.

I think that if the armband is what ends up happening, the numbers will be a bit smaller. The main idea is to have one thing to look for on stand up riders. Everyone knows what to look for on the buggies. If more info is needed on a particular rider, someone can approach the rider and get the number. Again just trying to help you guys out with a comfort level that you can enjoy and still wear your numbers.

Thanks in advance for the continued polling, if you have any questions, hit me with a U2U.

LONG POST WARNING



The Council has given much serious thought to your question via a Skype Video Conference connecting some of the greatest feline thinkers the worldover. Obviously, their opionions are purely hypothetical as the lack of opposable thumbs has thus far made kitegroundboarding and dirtsurfing less than practical. Most, if not all, refrain from coyote blading until the name is changed due to a long standing feud with... well, coyotes. Cats are tolerant, but some hostilities are long-standing and deeply ingrained.



Quote:

Originally posted by shehatesmyhobbies As it stands in NAPKA rules now, S.U.R. need to wear a high vis vest with their numbers displayed front and back for identification puruposes while at a NAPKA sanctioned event.





Quote:

Originally posted by Chad I would like to see the "number size" be changed to a smaller size and go with the arm band.





Quote:

Originally posted by shehatesmyhobbies I think that if the armband is what ends up happening, the numbers will be a bit smaller. The main idea is to have one thing to look for on stand up riders. Everyone knows what to look for on the buggies. If more info is needed on a particular rider, someone can approach the rider and get the number. Again just trying to help you guys out with a comfort level that you can enjoy and still wear your numbers.



Currently, I believe the wording in the NAPKA Guide leaves a bit more latitude:


Quote:

Article 5 - IDENTIFICATION NUMBERS The Identification number of the pilot must be placed on both sides (of the sides) of the buggy and an additional placard may be put in the centre of the rear of the buggy. The identification numbers must be: at least 5.5 inches high and 2 inches in width, using a .75 inch letter stripe width, using font Helvetica. The lettering must be black set on a white background, preceded by the identification letter of the country of the pilot. For Example a US pilot with the number 15, would read US15, Canada KC15 and Mexico MX15. For those pilots using kite skates, dirt surfers or ATB/Land boards you must visibly display your number on your chest and back on some type of garment possibly like a vest, (the high visibility green or orange vests are readily available at most home centers or safety equipment stores) The number size requirements are the same as with the buggies.



FWIW: It's unclear if a high visibility orange or green garment is used whether the requirement for the white background for the text still holds. If so, you would be layering Black text on a White background on an Orange/Green garment. That seems a little overkill as the Black Text should have plenty of contrast on either of the high-visibility colors.

While, Article 5 outlines the requirements, it doesn't really explain the reasoning. I believe the number plates for buggies and number ids for Stand Up Riders is a carry over from NAPKRA's racing roots. While these make intuitive sense in a racing environment, it's less intuitive in a non-competitive scenario.

It would be good to hash that out to arrive at the best answer as to the form factor of the number ids. I think the reasoning/end goal you are trying to achieve should play the largest role in determining the final format of number id. If there are multiple goals to be satisfied by the number id, then they should be factored into the decision process based on their relative importance.

Some possibile reasons or goals to be achieved by the number ids include:

1. A means to identify a NAPKA attendee at a NAPKA sanctioned event.
   
2. A means to identify a specific NAPKA attendee at a NAPKE sanctioned event.
   
3. An aid to make the rider more visible, both to non-participants and other traction pilots.
   

The greatest differences seems to be exist between the armband and the the other two options. There are enough different style vests, bibs and hybrids (not to mention shirts and jerseys) and there is enough crossover between them that you can treat them as one until further along in the winnowing process.

Arm Band With An ID Holder

• An arm band with an id slot gives you a way to prove that you are NAPKA member attending a sanctioned event, but it does so on a "countersign" basis (i.e. someone has to ask you for it). This assumes that you are stopped, they can get your attention, etc.
  
• At the armband size, the inclusion of an external id number is pretty much meaningless, as any text would be fairly small(a two place country identifier & 2-4 number would wrap around) unless you are rockin' Hercules size "guns."
  
• Depending on the style of elbow/torso protection you are wearing an armband may be obscured or suffer from position shifting/snagging.
  
• Smaller size tends to be more discreet and may impose less of a perceived "geek/dork" factor.
  

Vest/Bib/Shirt/Jersey

• Larger size can more easily support the inclusion of NAPKA numbers.
  
• Can accodmodate an id card pocket, if desired.
  
• NAPKA number visible from more angle to allow identification of a rider from a distance and more angles.
  
• Can be rendered in high visibility colors.
  
• Depending on style and material used, lower portion can be worn under or over a waist harness, as long as the identifying number portion is kept towards the top.
  
• In addition to low visibility conditions, high visibility colors registers quicker in the (Lizard Brain's) peripheral vision when one traction pilot is overtaking another one.
  
• There are enough vests and bibs out there that are cut like shirts. Shirts are available in high-visibility colors in a variety of material. If you prefer to wear upper body armor, something that wears like a jersey can be sized to fit over that.

Quote:

Originally posted by shortlineflyer plus there is a strangulation hazard with the bib and it would be difficult to wear a vest if you are using a waist harness. I have a nice comfortable vest i normally use for disc golf during hunting season, but i can easily modify it to chow numbers.

I am not sure how I convinced I am of this being an issue yet. There are a variety of bib styles and some include breakaways (either friction, velcro, etc). Bib's are used in downhill ski events and they are just as prone to spills, shearing friction in a fall, but they still seem to find suitable ones. I don't think this concern should be discounted, but it can be folded into the search criteria for a Vest/Bib/Shirt/Jersy solution.

As far as difficulty of wearing it under a waist harness, I think that depends entirely on the "cut" of the item and what material it is made of. I think a lot of people are assuming a stiff molded poleyester mesh, and that would definitely be uncomfortable especially if it needed to be folded/scrunched to fit under a harness.

FWIW: It seems like right now, NAPKA can decide between the armband vs. Vest/Bib/Shirt/Jersey and leave the specifications/requirements open to allow riders to choose how they want to comply as long as the number size requirements are met (and the color requirements are clarified (wrt to orange/green-white-black). This is essentialy what is done with buggy plates. NAPKA sets the size, font requirements, but the rider determines the final rendering/fabrication.

The only reason to deviate from that would be to simplify the procurement process and possibly get better pricing if ordered through a single vendor that NAPKA works something out with (sort of like group pricing on hotel rooms). The only requirement for single vendor sourcing would be to fine tune the specs for a Vest/Bib/Shirt/Jersey solution that works for everyone... but that could be Phase II

ATB,
Sam

Well said Sam! Evan as a bugger I have been thinking about having a highvis jersey made with my numbers on it, also will probably have my forum name somewhere. Just think it would be a good idea.

Sam, as always, Appreciate your insight. Discussions have taken place, ideas and concerns have been brought up, and I seek to help find a resolution. I talked to an ATB rider after discussions to ask what he had worn for competitiins at other events. Vest had been worn and trashed in the same session, pin on numbers had been worn with same results. Helmet stickers were next and it seemed to work. The suggestion of the armband then came up. I thought about and then discussed it with a few more people. We decided to put it out there and see what the riders themselves thought.

Yes the original format for NAPKA was with racing or competition in mind. As we know, NAPKA has changed a little bit and has also now welcomed non competitiin events. This is something I believe now that had not been considered. So I am asking if we need to tweak a few things to make it easier and more comfortable to comply. If there is a change some things will need to be reworded.

When I was trying to work out a set up using Class 8 size numbers of 5.5" high and 2" wide I proved to myself that they will just barely fit on the back of my high vis' vest . With only 6' per side they simply didn't fit on the front.

Similar with the Bib. Even putting the country on top and numbers on bottom the bib was too long.

The class 8 size simply doesn't cross over from buggy to body well. No matter what direction this takes the size of the numbers will need to be reduced.

As Rich mentions NAPKA is growing from a race focused club to an event focused one. The rules for buggy races and buggies in general are clear and well accepted. Ski race bibs are used for racing . I don't see stand up races or formal competetions happening any time soon.

The arm bands have more of a festival feel. When stand up competitions come around we can decide if bibs or something are needed.

NAPKA is growing in new directions. It is our club and as it changes rules will probably have to. NAPKA have done a fine job of working to include the whole kite community. I trust that they will make a choice that pleases the group and it's mission.

This is a great topic !

I love Day-glow Yellow or Green.
But think arm-band is my choice.

http://www.amazon.com/Reflective-Armband-Holder-Neon-Yellow/...

I actually like the green more myself! More visable for me! I am color blind so this would stand out against any backround for me!

Well at this point, the armbands seem to be favored by those who participated in the poll.

I am going to order a couple and send them to a few riders and see what they think. Have them wear them and check them out for comfort as well as visibility.

If you are a NAPKA member and would like volunteer to try one and let me know how it works for you, let me know. I will probably just get two or three for now.

If anyone wants to try the vest out, let me know as well and I will pick a couple of them up as well so there is a comparison.

Quote:

Originally posted by crazyherb I love Day-glow Yellow or Green. But think arm-band is my choice. http://www.amazon.com/Reflective-Armband-Holder-Neon-Yellow/...

Is the ID area still the size of a business card?

I picked up one of Rich's suggestions and made an insert. max size is 2 3/8" by 4".