NOTE: I mistakenly posted this first in the NABX forum.

I'm currently shopping buggies to re-enter this hobby.
Previous experience was with a Peter Lynn folder and Blade foils.
I still have a small Sky Tiger in excellent shape if you need one!
I'm being offered a great deal on a clean used Ivanpah stainless steel buggy packaged with a Revolution Power Blast 4-8.
I just got into the Revs, and have a 1.5 and the Power Blast 2-4.
My principle riding site will be a grass soccer field, with an occasional trip to the beach.
I love the look of the Ivanpah, and am aware that it is larger and heavier than the other buggies.
I'm also told that I can mount the Bigfoot Lite tires on the same wheels out of consideration for the grass at the soccer field, and the soft sand at the beach.
I'm hoping that I can easily remove the front frame boom along with the fork and wheel, and the rear wheels for home storage, as space is tight.
I have a Tacoma pickup, so I can haul it assembled.
Is there anything I'm not addressing that would suggest that the Ivanpah wouldn't be a good choice for a non-competition fun buggy in the venues I've described?
Also please comment on my thoughts about breaking the buggy down for storage, and the practicality of mounting the balloon tires on the existing stock wheels.
Thanks!
Bob

If you removed the whole front fork assembly use a sharpie to mark where it was bolted on. If your getting a good deal go for it. It will be a little tight on a soccer field, with the bigfoot lights your shouldn't have to much trouble navigating the soft stuff. I have an Ivanpah that I love, very stable and secure.

They are heavy..I rode one at WBB...You will need a lot more kite to pull you when weight is considered...

If you don't know about them or want to check them out...VTt buggy...Black widow or ?...you can run both sets of wheels and it's a light lighter....
This may better suit your needs on a soccer field. You'll be able to throw it around a bit more. I have a flexifoil wide axel and that is about the biggest thing (similar to PL) that I would want to be on a field of that size.

Get ahold of Rich...shehatesmyhobbies on the forum. He is a rep and also very knowledgeable of different buggy models. He will steer you in the right direction.

Built my own bug similiar to an Ivanpah, love the thing to death. I'm 6' 5" so I needed something large. I also buggy on grass fields. It is a heavy beast but very secure and difficult to tip over. On grass I power slide before a wheel comes off the ground. I initially went with fat tires but soon found out they command alot of power from a kite to keep moving due to rolling resistance. Skinnier tires roll much better on grass. As expected from a longer bug, turning radius is longer.

VTt apparently only builds a few buggies every so often, per the site.
They look nice, though.
Bob

How much do you need bigfoots for the beach?

I have an Ivanpah and an old PL/Flexi buggy. The little guy can be broken down and tossed in the back seat with 1 bolt. Therfore it gets a LOT more use than I ever imagined when I bought the Ivanpah.

The Ivanpah has a very long axle and I must remove it for transport + storage. That + the downpost. The agro of putting it together and chipping paint as I do so means I use it very little.

Jeff / BigKid did a simple mod' to make sliding the axle in and out more simple. He drilled a hole and welded a nut so I can spread the flange with a bolt now. BIG improvement ! Without it spreading the flange to remove the axle meant pounding in wedges.

I had issues simply borrowing Bigfoot tires for my Ivanpah. The standard bolt is short and a different thread count.

The Ivanpah is a nice buggy and well made but it is made for dry lake riding. If I had it all to do over I would buy something with an adjustabe rear axle , Standard bolt threads, lighter and easier to assemble. Articulated side rails would be sweet while I'm dreamng !

I don't know what BigKid's Sysmic is going for but it is one sweet and for over here unique buggy. If I was shopping I would be looking at it ?

Van custom makes buggies...He can make you a high end buggy that will meet all the needs you want. Beautiful craftsman! You can also get a Peter Lynn and one of Van's siderail/seat upgrade kits..The buggy you choose has a lot to do with where you can fly and how big you are or aren't. It needs to fit you and you have to be comfortable in it...that's the most import thing.

I would agree 100% with Bladerunner as far as the break down and transporting of your buggy = how much use it gets...

Have you even ridden in a buggy yet or are you just starting the looking/purchasing process? If you haven't even tried one, try to get to an event (buggy bash) close to you. I know JIBB is coming up and somewhat close to you, this would be a great opportunity to try some out before you commit to buying. You can contact Angus at Costal Wind Sports too, who I believe has a lot to do with the JIBE event.

Van custom makes buggies...He can make you a high end buggy that will meet all the needs you want. Beautiful craftsman! You can also get a Peter Lynn and one of Van's siderail/seat upgrade kits..The buggy you choose has a lot to do with where you can fly and how big you are or aren't. It needs to fit you and you have to be comfortable in it...that's the most import thing.

I would agree 100% with Bladerunner as far as the break down and transporting of your buggy = how much use it gets...

Have you even ridden in a buggy yet or are you just starting the looking/purchasing process? If you haven't even tried one, try to get to an event (buggy bash) close to you. I know JIBB is coming up and somewhat close to you, this would be a great opportunity to try some out before you commit to buying. You can contact Angus at Costal Wind Sports too, who I believe has a lot to do with the JIBE event.

I think the Ivanpah is from a PTW design, I love my PTW and will never part with it. When I was talking with PTW about a bug my original idea was to ride primarily on gassy fields with the occasional trip to beach. it has been almost a year now and I have never been on a grassy field I rode Ivanpah (NABX), Sunset Beach (SOBB Spring) and then I found Alvord dry lake bed, a 3.75 hour drive from my door step. so after cruising @ 40 mph across the lake bed I haven't been motivated to hit the soccer fields. of course I have a family of 7 and 2 jobs that keep me busy between trips anyway. I guess what I am saying is you may hit the beach more than you think but I do agree that a smaller lighter bug may be more fun in the soccer fields. I don't think I'm helping sorry I don't need to but taking the bug apart to store it is no big deal. I have a beach racer tire on a 4x8 sysmic wheel with no trouble. my PTW has an adjustable rear axle to make up for the beach racers, but I'm not sure about the Ivanpah. make double sure the type of buggying you are going to do and then get the proper bug.

You're gonna buggy with Rev's? Am I understanding that correctly? On grass? If so, I would get the lightest buggy possible and the Ivanpah is not it my friend. I would just get a Peter Lynn Xr and call it good. And some power kites as well . I hope whatever you decide to do, it works out for you and you're able to have a blast!

I would personally never buy one of Van's products. That's all I have to say about that.

the rear axle will not come off with out a lot of work and a bunch of scratches. a simple mod will take care of that problem. Call me before you buy it and I will explain the mod, you may be able to do it your self or pay someone to do it for you.

The 4-8 rev is a monster, it will be one heck of a buggy engine. I did a bit of bugging with the 4-8 and decided that my Rev skills suck. The biggest problem for me was that you cant use a harness, and my arms scream louder than a jet engine. 5 minutes and I was done for the week. The 2-4 was by far a better buggy kite than the 4-8, but not as good as a foil and a harness.

Looks like there is (as yet) no clear winner in this beauty contest! :-)
I am 5'8" and around 177 pounds.
All of the lake beds here in east central Florida are quite wet and have alligators in them, so I don't think I'll be doing any riding there.
As stated (somewhere), my previous buggy experience was with a Peter Lynn folder and Flexifoil Blade kites, about 8 years ago. I also built my own buggy out of 2" PVC with a 20" bike front end and wheelbarrow tires on the rear , but with a commercial seat. It worked as well as the PL did until my large and suicidal nephew broke the down tube crashing in a ditch! :-) I fixed it up and gave it to a neighbor kid to use as a toy hauling cart.
As many of you have opined, ease of use dictates how often something will actually BE used,
so if the Ivanpah will be a PITA to breakdown for compact storage, or is too heavy to use with a Rev 2-4 or 4-8, (if the Rev won't pull it then only a tow truck will!) or really isn't designed for casual clowning around at the soccer field, maybe I'd better consider something else.
(Sigh!) The Ivanpah just looks like a very substantial rig. I appreciate nice things. Most of the other offerings have a design element or two that make them appear less so. Like the front fork through- bolt locations made by flattening the tubing for the fork crown and axle bolts.
I did look at a couple of the "boutique builder" sites you folks mentioned. Some of them had solid looking front ends with real triple tree setups like a motorcycle.
But, they seemed mostly "Custom, built to order,Dahling, don't you know" arrangements and I'm more of a "buy off the rack" kind of a guy. Could be wrong. It's easy to get the wrong impression from a limited amount of information.
The promo video of the the Flexi Navarro (sp?) looke like fun! The obvious trade off for the very short wheelbase was an observable twitchiness at speed, but then, no one design is going to be perfect for every application.
I did see an interview with the honcho from Revolution and he said you CAN fly the big Revs with a harness using a cross link between the neutral points on the handles.
Might be a bit trickier rigging it than on the foils where you just connected the front line together.
I should mention that a bad skydive landing a few years back sort of hosed up my lower back, so seat support for that area is a plus for me.
So, ......keep the ideas coming! I appreciate it!
And, if there is an east coast buggying event where I can check out a few models before buying, please let me know!
Thanks!
Bobu

Just for the record...You can purchase a wide axle for a flexifoil...makes a huge difference...However with the comment "bad Back" this is not a good choice...I just had a seat custom made by Van for my flexifoil which is awesome!!!!! If you get a PL then the siderail kit comes with new siderails and a seat...just for that reason. I understand what you mean by the "look" of beautiful buggy however...If you never use it then it only looks good in you livingroom/garage...Get one that looks good with you in it going down the beach with a smile on your face...Much Better

Rian & Rich....(Rich @ shehatesmyhobbies forum contact) = East Coast Kite Sports Wildwood Buggy Bash..coming soon in April

Angus ....... = Costal Wind Sports = JIBE = Jekyll Island in GA. coming soon also in April I believe

If casual riding is your thing, then you really can't go wrong with the PL/VTT combo. That is PL XR+ fork/down tube/wide axle and VTT siderails and seat. The problem with the PL off the shelf is the feeling that you are sitting ON it rather than IN it. The VTT combo changes this as the siderails offer a great deal more support and the seat has a much deeper pocket lowering you between the rails. This deep seat also offers much better back support. The siderails are nice and beefy which really stiffens up the buggy. With this set-up you can easily switch the front end to a PL Bigfoot fork/downtube for Bigfoot beach action.

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=19088

Check out the above thread for more photo comparison. I am 6' 220 and feel much more secure in this set-up. Below is a pic with the Bigfoot set-up.
I think this set-up is great for most casual buggiers. Perfect for field and beach. Also you can have both set-ups cheaper than a race buggy.

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisH You're gonna buggy with Rev's? Am I understanding that correctly? On grass? If so, I would get the lightest buggy possible and the Ivanpah is not it my friend. I would just get a Peter Lynn Xr and call it good. And some power kites as well . I hope whatever you decide to do, it works out for you and you're able to have a blast! I would personally never buy one of Van's products. That's all I have to say about that.

great thing about a forum is it is a place to exchange info and opinion . . .So here goes . . . I am opposite of Chris regarding Van`s products (VTT) . . Check out
BigMike`s website for a frankenbuggy . . PL XR+ with some awesome VTT add ons . . . I ride park grass and farmers fields . . .and the customer support I have gotten from Van and BigMike is awesome . . My two cents are in

ChrisH - way to drop a load and then move on, jeez. If I'm gonna slag someone, I'll at least explain why, that was very rude.

I think they are steering you in the right direction with the PL w/side rail conversion, a back rest can be added as well. with your kite set-up even if you are able to harness it, the lighter the bug the easier that set-up will be to handle. and unless you plan on doing 50 mph + I wouldn't worry about the shorter wheel base. (be sure to let us know if you reach 50 mph in a soccer field ) I'm with you on the pinched tubing but the lighter bug will treat you better in your situation.

What is the concern over the pinched tubing...? I doubt you will give it enough abuse on a soccer field to break it.

It's appearance as much as anything.
Without access to heavy duty metal working equipment, pinching the tube is something I might do, just to make something that works with looks as a non-issue.
Ie; it just looks "homemade".
And if I get above 50 mph on the soccer field, it will be accompanied by screams of terror from the soccer moms as they grab their kiddies and run! :-)
Sounds like the jury is narrowing down the field. I believe we will have a verdict by then end of the day.
In the lead at the moment is the Frankenbuggy.
But, I did find a website for a very nice, all carbon fiber buggy! Didn't look at prices, however!
Bob

Hi Bob.....All I have to ride here in SW FL are soccer fields and I have to say that the Ivanpah, while a nice buggy, is a bit much for such confined spaces. You really can not go wrong with a PL XR+, a Flexi, or any other small buggy. I now they aren't as flash as some of the others BUT they will be best suited for a small field. I have a larger buggy that I use on the RARE occasion I get to buggy on a beach somewhere but my XR+ is my go-to buggy.

If you want flash, check out the Xxtreme Basixx. SUPER nice freeestyle bug and not priced bad. Great size for a soccer field and solid.

As far as events on the East coast, well in May there is JIBE. (Jekyll Island Buggy Expo) This year I believe it is May 8 - May 11 up on Jekyll Island in GA. Not too far North of you. I go every year and it is worth the drive! Pristine beaches, great wind, and even better company!

That carbon buggy would be perfect for you with quick releases for disassembly. At the low low price of ~$8000.

only $8,000? I thought it was $14,000. Ok, I'm breaking into the piggy bank!

Can someone explain the small area/small buggy thing? I have a soccer field that I buggy at and I use the bigger bugs rather than the PL or small ones. The size is only a foot wider and a foot longer, it cant be that much of a difference is it? Or is it the weight of the bug?

And 50mph on a soccer field is a bit much, 42 is doable. Besides, the smaller the area the better your skills, right?

Quote:

Originally posted by bigkid Can someone explain the small area/small buggy thing? I have a soccer field that I buggy at and I use the bigger bugs rather than the PL or small ones. The size is only a foot wider and a foot longer, it cant be that much of a difference is it? Or is it the weight of the bug? And 50mph on a soccer field is a bit much, 42 is doable. Besides, the smaller the area the better your skills, right?

More so weight than size really, good point Jeff. Also please consider that the larger/heavier bugs such as Apexx, MG, Ivanpah are built to go fast. To be able to go fast in a heavy buggy on grass it has been my experience that I need big wind, and a big kite. Granted I use barrows or extra wides. (BFL may be better) Back to the big kite thing: big kites suck in tight spaces due to turning speed so I prefer a smaller kite and a lighter buggy. Again, just my experience and others may disagree. Besides, working on freestyle in tight spaces is a lot of fun!

42 on a single size soccer field? Thats moving! My best on grass is 31.

ok i have never ridden a big buggy on a grass field before so I am just guessing, but there are several issue that come to my mind that would make it more difficult to buggy on grass. issue one, the weight, the weight of the buggy would cause multiple issues. it would make it annoying to pull to wheere you ride after you get to the field or if you are riding down wind, and it would require you to have more wind than if you were riding in a smaller buggy. issue two, they turn slower than smaller buggies since they usually have a larger turning radius than a smaller buggy. usually fields dont have alot of room and the wind is only good at a feew places so you want to be able to stay in a small area which is difficult to do if you cant make smal.ler turns. now the final issue. this is just what ive heard, the ivanpah and other large buggies are more difficult to do technical stuff like slides and 360s or 180s.

It was awesome when I was living in California and upgraded to the Ivanpah for riding mostly at the sodfarm which might have been as long as a soccer field sometimes but not as wide depending on which field we were allowed to ride in. I enjoyed the ability to ride with more power in the kite and the security to carry more speed into the turns since I could confidently slide the buggy through the turn and then rocket out fully lit. Being able to handle the fast acceleration and the added stability of the higher siderails just made riding more fun. I moved up from a Flexi buggy, so I've been around the horn on commonly and not so commonly available buggies. Dino upgraded from his libre to an MG at the same time. It was stable and secure as well. Both buggies were a pleasure to ride even in the small space. No way I'd have left the big buggy at home to ride in an XR+ or Flexi. I had to ride an XR+ for a month or 2 after my Flexi sold and the Ivanpah was being made. For me, Van's XR upgrade rails might sway me if I had tight storage and transport issues. I can't imagine someone not wanting to use his products. Great pricing and products that improve through innovation.

Quote:

Originally posted by bigkid Can someone explain the small area/small buggy thing? I have a soccer field that I buggy at and I use the bigger bugs rather than the PL or small ones. The size is only a foot wider and a foot longer, it cant be that much of a difference is it? Or is it the weight of the bug? And 50mph on a soccer field is a bit much, 42 is doable. Besides, the smaller the area the better your skills, right?

yes...a grass field can be a helluva rougher ride than people think....
soccer fields are my only choice until crops are off then it's even rougher. no problem for my big buggies.
my first buggy was a PL Race (has rear suspension) and my second buggy was a Libre SuperTruckII on BF. length and width wise they are same (close enough) and are 'big'.
Derek has a PL ST and I also had an XR+.
holy teeth chattering nutballs buzzing batman!!!!
i never knew how rough the surface really was until i rode the smaller bugs.
so yes...the big buggies are heavier/more expensive but they are also way more comfy and stable (no OBE unless you really botch it) big buggies= super comfy=rise as long as you like.
i bought the XR+ at the same time a Libre. i though i might use the XR+ when i did not prefer to load the big buggy.
****i never once brought my XR+ instead of the Libre because the PL was lighter/easier to load/unload.*****
i only rode the XR+ two times maybe just to say i actually used it.
BTW i buggied with my Rev Shockwave.
if Rev skills are up to task then go ahead. i hear they get quite good upwind performance....although if i did happen to 'drop' a kite on someone i'd prefer it to be a foil.

As for turning radius, the Ivanpah is designed to turn with a radius just slightly larger than the buggy itself. For a large buggy, it is very agile. Weight would be the only issue with it on grass, but as Bobby has said, if you have the room then it is no issue and the security of being inside the buggy is awesome.

As to the weight issue, it reminds me of an old cartoon I once saw in Bicycling magazine.
It was a view from the rear of two guys riding side by side on their road bikes. The speaker was a morbidly obese guy telling his beanpole riding partner how he had just spent mega bucks buying some component that weighed just a few grams less. :-)
Which brings up the question: is it the weighti of the buggy itself (sort of like unsprung weight affecting the operation of a car's suspension) that is at issue, or is it rather the combined weight of buggy and rider?
I weigh 177. I think the Ivanpah is close to 90 pounds, so say a combined kite-load of 267 pounds.
Whatcha think?
Bob