OK, First things first, I need to know how many people are interested in attending and what their preferred dates are. Keep in mind we experienced very nice conditions I think about 2nd week of October last year. So have at it gentlemen, what would your preferred dates be?

Yep what you said!

I am not sure why the landsailers choose the last week of september, still kind of hot and Josh and I know that they were cheated of good wind last year cuz we were there. then we were back two weeks later and it was good wind but still dusty, I was back two weeks after that and no dust and good wind, then I went back in November and it was cold zero dust and mild wind. maybe we ought to ask them what their track record has been? I know revpaul wants to incorporate with them but I personally would rather have cooler temps, less dust and good wind......3rd or 4th week of October? I realise the weather will vary, should we ask the landsailers?

While I definitely don't mind mingling with other wind power disciplines, I would really rather this be a buggy event. As for the dustiness, it really doesn't bother me other than it getting into electronics. Although I did find the baddest compressed air duster ever built- I'll post a pic when I get out of the hospital but its a valve on top of a paintball co2 tank. Works awesome and is refillable. Its a beautiful thing. Later in the month is better riding because with a little rain say the day before or even in the early morning the surface actually has a little more grip. Seems to help a rider hold a line better. @revpaul- I'll go in the heat but you end up hauling lot more gear. 3-4 times the amount of water as well as portable shade. That sun is brutal and relentless.

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Originally posted by heliboy50 I'll go in the heat but you end up hauling lot more gear. 3-4 times the amount of water as well as portable shade. That sun is brutal and relentless.

Perfect, just like home for me. It's sounding better every time I check in.

2nd or 3rd weekend would make it doable with my work.:duh:

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Originally posted by heliboy50 While I definitely don't mind mingling with other wind power disciplines, I would really rather this be a buggy event. As for the dustiness, it really doesn't bother me other than it getting into electronics. Although I did find the baddest compressed air duster ever built- I'll post a pic when I get out of the hospital but its a valve on top of a paintball co2 tank. Works awesome and is refillable. Its a beautiful thing. Later in the month is better riding because with a little rain say the day before or even in the early morning the surface actually has a little more grip. Seems to help a rider hold a line better. @revpaul- I'll go in the heat but you end up hauling lot more gear. 3-4 times the amount of water as well as portable shade. That sun is brutal and relentless.

-i really had no idea about the temps in early October vs later October but i do trust and respect your (and MDK) opinion(s) on that subject.
-the reason i want to be there when the landsailers are there is cuz that likely will be when i receive "the" boat (just like Ivanpah when i received my SiroccoX). getting some sailing tips and meeting the landsailing crew is bonus too and not an occasion I'll have often.
- ONE other big consideration for me is weather(snow/freezing rain)= extra fun fun fun driving on the major portion north leg of this journey.
the longer i wait to head off the more chances i'm going to hit the #@%$#!. This winter(2012/2013) started Oct 20 and is still going (snowed like a #@%$#! yesterday and the day before) strong. yesterday winds were 47 gusting 57 'Kp/h' but no open fields to 'play' play.
-late september early October does not worry me about bad weather driving.

I'd be interested to know why the landsailers plan for that time frame too but I'd bet they'd prefer to keep the date, at least for this year. I do wonder if they have the insight you two have or they just threw a dart at the calender and said yep..that's Alvord.

****Bottom line is this...****
I'd like to put faces to the PKF names here but landsailing is what i am stoked about nowadays.
*if i come alone i would not even have kite gear with me (i do not even have a kite buggy in my garage anymore [the Libre is on 'permanent' loan to a friend]. if my brother came with me (i doubt it though) he has two buggies we'd bring along but with a couple landsailers too.
i'd honestly prefer that you guys went to Avord(or anywhere) on a date that best suited yourselves for the good reasons you've stated.
I'd really feel like cr@p if a you guys did not do what you should on account of one odd man out...
Do not let my wining persuade your good common sense.
Paul

Oh, don't get me wrong there is no such thing as a bad trip out there, there are just some times of the year that are some times of the year that are better for buggying. The hot hot times like late June, July, August, and early September where it is really hit or miss. During these times you also have a lot of lightning induced and man made wild fires burning, which even from a couple of hundred miles away can have a pretty dramatic effect on air quality (ask MDK about that one!) The hot months are when you end up with that sunset blow that usually lasts for an hour or so, so you end up sitting around waiting for that all day. Not bad if you are in an rv or have a quad to play with, but downright miserable if you are just stuck in a tent the whole time.

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Originally posted by heliboy50 Oh, don't get me wrong there is no such thing as a bad trip out there, there are just some times of the year that are some times of the year that are better for buggying. The hot hot times like late June, July, August, and early September where it is really hit or miss. During these times you also have a lot of lightning induced and man made wild fires burning, which even from a couple of hundred miles away can have a pretty dramatic effect on air quality (ask MDK about that one!) The hot months are when you end up with that sunset blow that usually lasts for an hour or so, so you end up sitting around waiting for that all day. Not bad if you are in an rv or have a quad to play with, but downright miserable if you are just stuck in a tent the whole time.

yep... i do know of what you speak.
the first day at Ivanpah was cold but blowing real good mostly all day.
the next two days were mostly sit and wait but with no real sunset sails. the last day again mostly was sit and wait with the good hour or so of sunset sailing.

for what its worth Dave US226 told me that his trip to Alvord is not a Race thing.
i took that to mean there is no organized event that he and whomever he is with is aware or a part of.
I might talk with Dave some time soon to see how he picked the date for Alvord.
I haven't booked any time off just yet.
Later
Paul

Oh, little misunderstanding there Paul. In those hot summer months CeCe and I spent some time talking with some of the landsailers out there. There were times were would see them dead in the water just waiting for wind and others where they were up and cruising just fine. I think the biggest difference is that by and large the landsailers tend to be more along the lines of retiree aged people who have the time to go out and just spend a couple of weeks to wait for the right conditions to come up. Also, a great many of them have been going out there for more than 20 years so they know what to look for. As a buggy rider, I found it highly beneficial to pick their brains when I had the chance, lol. The funny thing is, they are shocked when they see how far up wind (almost dead into the wind we can go with our kites,) It is pretty fun to ride with them.

The plan at this point is to have a suggested equipment list, which I have almost completed on my computer at home (STILL in the hospital.......GRRRRRR), fueling locations-this far out this starts to be rather important, distances, and what's available and where, and a list of do's and definitely don't do's. So are we looking at the 2nd or 3rd week of October then? How about duration of the event? 5 days?

we would probably come Wed and leave Sunday

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Originally posted by MDK we would probably come Wed and leave Sunday

Sounds perfect to me, 9th through the 13th of October.:wee:

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Originally posted by revpaul for what its worth Dave US226 told me that his trip to Alvord is not a Race thing. i took that to mean there is no organized event that he and whomever he is with is aware or a part of. I might talk with Dave some time soon to see how he picked the date for Alvord.

Is this Dave US226 a land sailor or buggier?

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Originally posted by heliboy50 Oh, little misunderstanding there Paul. In those hot summer months CeCe and I spent some time talking with some of the landsailers out there. There were times were would see them dead in the water just waiting for wind and others where they were up and cruising just fine. I think the biggest difference is that by and large the landsailers tend to be more along the lines of retiree aged people who have the time to go out and just spend a couple of weeks to wait for the right conditions to come up. Also, a great many of them have been going out there for more than 20 years so they know what to look for. As a buggy rider, I found it highly beneficial to pick their brains when I had the chance, lol. The funny thing is, they are shocked when they see how far up wind (almost dead into the wind we can go with our kites,) It is pretty fun to ride with them.

-not sure about what the misunderstanding is.
-retirees..yep.
i went to Ivanpah for the Sirocco Spring West owner's rally which just happens to normally coincide with NALSAs Americas Landsialing Cup.
As I strolled through the NALSA site I saw a very large portion of attendees were....well, old.
I'd guess these were the guys were involved in the sport in the 60-70s (before it died off) and are now the die-hards.
-Upwind performance is exactly why I'm looking for another boat.
I've told the story about the time I was skiing with a 12mPulseII. Me, working the hell out of the kite and myself just to stay close to the staging area and not making any fun speeds.
When I watch this guy on a 12m SpeedII cruise (hardly any sining), from way on the other side of the lake and right on by me, and heading so far upwind to staging area. WTF...at first, when I could only see the kite on the horizon, i thought the guy must be getting a tow in...nope....high AR.
Until that day I equated high AR kites to high speed/high power "Race instruments" and nothing I "needed" for my intents and purposes.
I knew high AR had better upwind performance but it never really sunk in until that day.
I quickly changed my thinking and added a couple of Speeds to the collection.
Well, the same exact damn thing happened at Ivanpah...
I was doing quite well on my new SiroccoX and was also watching the big and/or really different/cool looking boats around as well.
I realize on that big of a surface the wind direction can change and/or be in a different direction on different parts of the lake at the same time.
Anyhoo... I watched this Class5 (same size as my SiroccoX) heading hard upwind and at a nice speed. he came by me right close so we were both in the same wind.
I thought WTF and tried for the same heading but slowed to a crawl.
I kept my eye out after that and saw it again a few more times.
DONE...I'm looking for another boat...I did not even know what they were at the time but they were definitely different than my boats.
-Kite-buggier first...There was only one kite-buggier I saw and he was on a 5m (maybe bigger?) NASA. I was rooting for him but I never did meet him. He was at the NASA camp. It was nice to see him in amongst the landsailers.
Paul

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Originally posted by Morrie Williams Quote: Originally posted by revpaul for what its worth Dave US226 told me that his trip to Alvord is not a Race thing. i took that to mean there is no organized event that he and whomever he is with is aware or a part of. I might talk with Dave some time soon to see how he picked the date for Alvord. Hi Morrie, Is this Dave US226 a land sailor or buggier?

I don't know if he is a buggier too..maybe.
Dave Gluek.
I just know him as the fella that won the 2013 Americas Landsailing Cup's Sportsman Class on boat US226[an Airtrack].
I managed to contact him and he's been a super nice fella to me and has answered a tonne of questions from me.
Seems like a good guy to spend some time with doing some fun stuff.
Paul

@MDK- 16-20th of October then Mike?---- EDIT. Sorry, meds again. I like that I can blame them when I was just being a bonehead. :saint:

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Originally posted by heliboy50 @MDK- 16-20th of October then Mike?---- EDIT. Sorry, meds again. I like that I can blame them when I was just being a bonehead. :saint:

that would be my first vote and the week before would be my second. but however it works best for others.

Josh its a good thing we are getting all this in writing so when you when you're done with the pain meds you can come back and review everything I honestly can not believe you are working on organizing this in your condition taking away all our excuses, thats for sure

I'll look at my schedule Monday but this is shaping up to be a worthy road trip for me.

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Originally posted by greasehopper I'll look at my schedule Monday but this is shaping up to be a worthy road trip for me.

good to hear! looking forward!

for those of you on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/groups/216064261858581/

Alvord: September 22nd 2012 low 50 high 90 deg (love this video BTW, thanks Josh) http://youtu.be/id7ShWuSZro

Alvord: October 14th 2012 low 45 high 75 deg (sorry a little long, + my first ride hooked in so a little boring ) http://youtu.be/aFVtJ26cHmE

Alvord: October 27th 2012 low around 35 high 55 deg no dust good wind http://youtu.be/W-EAShq20zo

Alvord: November 24th 2012 low 32 high 50 mild wind http://youtu.be/dCumFsVF-yI (Link Fixed)

@MDK- banged up or not this is something I committed to helping put together last year and I'll be healthy by then. It would do my heart right to ride there with a group of my friends and make some new ones along the way. Hurting pretty bad yes, but not broken my friend. So let's give it one more day for folks to get their 2¢ in on when they would like to see the event (looking like second or third week of October) and then go from there .

Oct 14 is Canadian Thanksgiving so may give an extra day for anyone going down from Cnd.
I could probably make it any of the last three weekends in Oct.I would probably do the same as last year and travel down on Thurs.and leave late Sun or early Mon.
I remember last year the first fall weather system was coming through and gave us good winds.So I would say mid to late Oct would give the best chance of good winds.

I Wanted to make it a Monday to Sunday affair so it's looking like either the 2nd or 3rd week is the favored time frame. So all in favor of the 3rd week of October give me an "eye" post.

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Originally posted by MDK Alvord: September 22nd 2012 low 50 high 90 deg (love this video BTW, thanks Josh) http://youtu.be/id7ShWuSZro Alvord: October 14th 2012 low 45 high 75 deg (sorry a little long, + my first ride hooked in so a little boring ) http://youtu.be/aFVtJ26cHmE Alvord: October 27th 2012 low around 35 high 55 deg no dust good wind http://youtu.be/W-EAShq20zo Alvord: November 24th 2012 low 32 high 50 mild wind http://youtu.be/W-EAShq20zo

Hey Mike, those last two youtube links are the same.
Watched them again. I would like to do NABX and ABE next year. That would be great.

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Originally posted by RedSky Quote: Originally posted by MDK Alvord: September 22nd 2012 low 50 high 90 deg (love this video BTW, thanks Josh) http://youtu.be/id7ShWuSZro Alvord: October 14th 2012 low 45 high 75 deg (sorry a little long, + my first ride hooked in so a little boring ) http://youtu.be/aFVtJ26cHmE Alvord: October 27th 2012 low around 35 high 55 deg no dust good wind http://youtu.be/W-EAShq20zo Alvord: November 24th 2012 low 32 high 50 mild wind http://youtu.be/W-EAShq20zo Hey Mike, those last two youtube links are the same. Watched them again. I would like to do NABX and ABE next year. That would be great.

Fixed, Thanks Tom, I think you should do both too love that graphic of you in your sig BTW, very nice

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Originally posted by MDK Alvord: September 22nd 2012 low 50 high 90 deg (love this video BTW, thanks Josh) http://youtu.be/id7ShWuSZro Alvord: October 14th 2012 low 45 high 75 deg (sorry a little long, + my first ride hooked in so a little boring ) http://youtu.be/aFVtJ26cHmE Alvord: October 27th 2012 low around 35 high 55 deg no dust good wind http://youtu.be/W-EAShq20zo Alvord: November 24th 2012 low 32 high 50 mild wind http://youtu.be/dCumFsVF-yI (Link Fixed)

real nice!!!
sent the link(s) to my brother to try and get some "road trip" stoke kindled.

Dates, guys dates. Permit to obtain, other stuff to set up. Or is this just not what you guys want to do?