Ok, so here it goes. My first post. To begin with, I've been kiting for many years. Back in the 1990's it was sport kites. Then I found this traction thing. For a while I rode a land board but the older you get, the more it hurts! Recently I began riding a buggy. Honestly I feel like I've been missing out for too many years. I love this thing! Enough of that. Anyway, I live in OKC and we have a smallish field next to a lake. I'd like to get some opinions on kites that work well with buggies in small areas. I've been told that higher aspect ratio kites, while good for top end, lack the low end grunt needed in a limited space. Truth? So, let me have it! FYI, I currently fly a Crossifre II 2 meter, a 1st gen Beamer 3.6, and a 1st gen Crossfire 5. I've been looking into Ozone Octane's and Methods, and various Peter Lynn Offerings. Oh, and completely on another tangent, anyone have experience with the AWOC back rest on a PL Buggy? Thanks y'all. I know I'll get some great info here. Sock it to me!

Welcome to the forums! I just purchased an AWOC backrest a month ago for my Peter Lynn, and it's a HUGE difference!!! For the money, you can't beat it. I have a screwed up lower back already. When I first sat in my buggy, I thought ut-oh! This is going to kill my back. The AWOC backrest is great. Sure there are much better expensive options, but for the budget minded person, I give the AWOC backrest an A+
IMHO.




I fly a smallish field as well. I seem to be having the most luck with my 3.5 Rage. My 3m Ozone Flow works great too, but not as fast as the Flexi.

Others will chime in, but thats my $.02

I've got some smallish paddocks at home that I use when I'm not down the beach. I find the wind a bit too gusty for the Methods and anything high aspect most of the time. They shoot forwards in the gust, then do nothing in the lull...rinse and repeat. Very frustrating. I think your crossfires are probably a bit more high aspect than my Methods - how do they handle your conditions? And compared to your Beamer? I used to have a couple of Beamers and they did really well in my lumpy wind and small paddocks.

Better still are the Nasa Star 2's - they are really low aspect so they generate good pulling power at very slow speeds - the exact opposite of a high aspect kite.

I've also got a 5 & 7.5m Apex II depower - both of which are excellent at smoothing out lumpy wind and generating power quickly in a small space.

Best fun I've had in the paddock was with a 2.8m Century II. Explosive kite (compared to everything else I've got!) which generated a heap of power - you had to be on your toes though...probably similar to your crossfires. Didn't like it much on long runs on the beach and hence ended up selling it.

Inland, it's the Nasa's and HQ Apex for me. Flows/Octane and similar are also good (much like your Beamer). I guess it depends on how you like to fly....I like laid back and relaxed, hence there are no race kites in my quiver.

Thanks guys! 3 Shot, thanks for the info on the back rest. Being on the wrong side of 40, my back isn't what it used to be and I feel like a little support is in order. I'm not looking to be a pro freestyler or anything but I have already grown fond of the occasional 180, or power slide. Does the back rest get in the way at all? Also, does it seem pretty sturdy and able to hold its adjustment?

John, I have never flown depower but it is a very interesting proposition. Actually there's a great kite surfing community here and I've even thought of going the twin skin route, Phantom perhaps. That would be down the road though. I've flown a Flow and really liked it. I'm assuming an Octane would be similar. The wind I deal with is in fact pretty lumpy and truth be known, the Crossfires don't care for it too much. I've flown the CF5 long enough to understand it and make it work but one wrong move and, OH SH!#! I'm not looking to buggy jump or anything. I'd just like to assemble a quiver of gust tolerant kites that are happy ramping up power quickly. Make sense? So far Octane seems a good solution. Given the wealth of info on this forum I thought I'd ask.

If your Crossfires are struggling then stick with low aspect stuff like the Flow (which is fairly similar to the Octane. Beamers, Hornets, Flexifoil Rage, Zebra Z1, Busters will all do better with gusty wind.

HQ Apex and Ozone Access are excellent low aspect depowers that can handle a wide wind range. 12-20 knots for my 5m Apex II. 16-30 for my Ozone Access 4m. A depower will cover the range of at least 2 fixed bridles. I find my 7.5m Apex II to be more forgiving than a 4m Beamer but have a bit more power when needed. May be worth looking into.

Haven't flown the twinskins (Phantom etc) enough to have a solid opinion but there are plenty here that do...

Check out the Nasa Star 2's in the review thread too - excellent in gusty winds.

If you can fly those crossfires in your conditions than you will be able to fly about anything. Those kite were one of the most difficult kites I have ever flown in lumpy conditions. Get them on the beach and they were much better but they sure love to fold up.

Your thinking is correct as to stay away from high aspect kites. They need room to run they are not sprinters. You need something between a race kite (like PL vapor or Ozone yak) and the low aspect (beamer, hornet). I will let others blast out different models to you as I dont want to seem like a advertisement. Also like John mentioned a lower aspect depower like the apex, access, lynx would be a good option.

Another option along with the backrest is the VTT upgrade kite. It also offers alot of back support and sits you deeper in the seat for better side pull.

Quote: Originally posted by ratfink13

Does the back rest get in the way at all? Also, does it seem pretty sturdy and able to hold its adjustment?

I am 40 yrs young, but my back feels like 80 some days. I am not a freestyler' either. So it does not get in MY way. I can't vouch for X-Games style :evil:. A VTT seat upgrade will probably be in the future, but was not in my budget at the time I got the buggy

The AWOC holds in place very tight on the side rails. I did find that the upper part will rotate back just a tad if you really lean back very hard. (My Flexi got too far behind me :embarrased: )Normal riding it does not move. I thought about a tiny stainless spot weld just to prevent it, but have not done so. Did not want to deface the stock equipment. Again, for the money, it is a good upgrade until you could afford the VTT. IMHO

Not by choice, but I am cutting my buggy teeth on a smallish field. I like to think if I can ride in a box, I can ride anywhere? LOL

Think you would dig that Octane, or go gusto with the Method. Ozone has INSANE quality all the way around!!!!

Biased?

I loved my Bullets in a small park. Old school but grunty and predictable. I had the 4.5 and 7m . I notice a 4.5 for sale now but it's overseas.

Saw the AWOC backrest at WBB and it's very nice. Definitely what the PL needs to make it comfortable. If you aren't handy it's a nice product at a decent price. Far more finished looking than anything I would do.

Quote: Originally posted by ratfink13

I'd like to get some opinions on kites that work well with buggies in small areas. I've been told that higher aspect ratio kites, while good for top end, lack the low end grunt needed in a limited space. Truth?

False, I fly Sky Country Reflex(s), 5.1:1 A/R. Not only a high A/R kite, but I fly on 30m lines too. A quick spin will give all the grunt I need if not more. I have not heard Dirtslide complain about a lack of grunt from his Reflexs. RonH does not seem to have a lack of grunt from either of his Coopers. We fly in pretty confined spaces and close to other buggiers, much closer than any other place I've flown. Some high A/R kites seem to work very in close spaces, others don't.
S

Thanks for the info y'all! I also appreciate not getting blasted for asking about kite in this thread. Yes, I read the instructions AFTER I posted my question. Sorry. I'll behave better in the future.

3shot-About the backrest. To attach the lower bar do you have to cut down the side rail pads? On my bug the pads go all the way to the point where they turn down toward the axle. I don't see how the bar could mount up with cutting the pads down. Pics on the AWOC website show a bug with what look like extended side rails. I could be wrong though.

Thanks!

Take a look at the new PKD Buster Pro series. 2.2, 3.3, 4.4
I have flown these on the beach but am looking forward to flying them at home on a small field. They are just the ticket, IMO.
Connect with Jeff at Big Kid Kites

Quote: Originally posted by ratfink13

Thanks for the info y'all! I also appreciate not getting blasted for asking about kite in this thread. Yes, I read the instructions AFTER I posted my question. Sorry. I'll behave better in the future. 3shot-About the backrest. To attach the lower bar do you have to cut down the side rail pads? On my bug the pads go all the way to the point where they turn down toward the axle. I don't see how the bar could mount up with cutting the pads down. Pics on the AWOC website show a bug with what look like extended side rails. I could be wrong though. Thanks!

My rail pads also go back to just where the rail turns down. I must have the shorty side rails like you as well. I just scrunched them forward about an 1 &1/2" to give me enough room for the mounting ears. I secured them right at the start of the bend on mine. I posted this pic in another thread but here it is again. Shows you just where the rest contacts your back.

As John H already said I would second the recommendation for NPWs in tight locations and gusty conditions.

Being "triangular" rather than "rectangular" they will turn side over side much quicker than an comparable sized foil [9m is c. 4m wide]. This gives the requisite quick maneuverability and allows shorter lines and flying lower to the ground.

With the four line setup the kite can be put anywhere in the window and since the kite holds its tension with brake pressure it will also absorb gust very well. This also contributes to their ability to fly "in nothing." I was buggying on grass [albeit barely] in slack winds on a 9m NPW9.