It seems like more than half of the folks who come here as beginners seem to come in wanting a 4m kite and seem stuck on that size ?

It seems like even when they are often told the reasons that starting around 3m is a much better place to begin they stick with that choice.

I never had this feeling so really don't understand it.

Do you think it is because they are stuck hoping for a single kite that they can learn and ( mistakenly ) jump with ?

Do you think they feel they will outgrow a 3m too quickly?

Any of you that came in stuck on going to a 4m, I would be really interested in what motivated you . Did you find it was a good place to start?

I remember for me it was just lack of understanding the power these things create. I bought a 3m but after learning while it was enroute that I perhaps should have bought a name brand I added a 4.9 to the list of kites en-route. Got the 3m, it was a dog but only because of spaghetti flying lines really. Proved to be an OK kite once a good lineset was on. Still, I unfolded the 4.9 and was immediately terrified by the power. Went back to the 3 until I got to know the wind and kite control a bit more.

And now, some of my most memorable moments are buggying with a 2/3/4 m kite. I find that when the wind is up I feel well in control with a 3m kite. If I need to fly the 2m (wind is REALLY up) I'm in more of a survival mode. If I need to go bigger than 3 I'm in "play with the kite control" kinda winds.

3m IMHO is a must-have in the kite quiver. You might as well start with it.

I think it has everything to do with lack of knowlege and the thrill. I remember a P-3 than a Beamer 3.6 and then it was off to a 12m and a 18.5m, a harness and a kite trike.
The second week was even better.

But I did learn from my over eagerness.

I think it is because they would like to have just one kite for a while... 3m is probably the perfect size to learn with, giving you a huge wind range for static flying, enough power to teach you respect and give you a buzz and at the same time small enough that you would need to be out in really bad conditions or do something very stupid to get a serious spanking from it. But if you want to get into traction sports you will be buying another kite really quickly.

Its a bit small for land boarding in light winds though for example, and you want to be learning in light winds. I would teach someone to kite on a 2-3m but teach them to board on a 4-5m or get them straight onto a depowerable.

The first kite I flew was a 5m Ozone FB in 8mph or so. The first one I bought was a 13m Arc. I learned basic landboarding & static jumping on that. then I got a 3.5m FB when I got a buggy. My girlfriend at the time bought 4m PKD Buster (she was 110lbs or so) and went from never flown a kite to rolling up and down on a landboard in one afternoon.

Despite my own experience and other kite buddies, I would still recommend 3m or 3.5m as a first kite for everyone unless they only want to learn to kitesurf then it would be a 10m-12m LEI depending on what weight they are.

My first kite was a 4m , I seem to remember googling everything I could about Buggying, and the recommendations were a 3-4 m kite...... Of course you go to the four .....
For what it's worth I still think it was a good place to start. A 3 needs a few more knots to pull along and reacts quicker than a 4, I have a 3m kite now but never use it, the 4 gets much more of a workout.
With all my current knowledge, I'd start on a 6 m access depower, good wind range, friendly in semi gusty winds. A bar has less complexity than handles for a beginner (IMO ) plus reacts quicker in the hands of a beginner.

If anyone is anything like me (hope no one is) I started out with a Zebra Z2 2.5 owned by MyAikenCheeks, and it was awesome. Understanding that these Zebra 2.5 has a lot of pull (considering its size) I wanted something similar in size, but nothing I would kick myself in the ars for if it tore up. ergo a Ballistic 2.2 and 3.6. Math quickly told me a 4M is not much different than a 3.6.

I myself am a junkie. (sorry to disappoint anyone) .. lol .. especially for something like this that requires nearly no gas (except to get there) and no supervision if you're flying smaller kites. Besides, the adrenaline is amazing for such a peaceful sport.

Well, once I determined that a 3.6 and 6 (depower) had "similar" pulling power (others may disagree) I decided to buy a MUCH larger one because I finally understood the control a depower has and knew I wouldn't have any problems learning on one.. So the 15m. Some of you know the Aurora has a flawed design, but the experience and knowledge gained from good ones, and bad ones are literally priceless. BTW, once the 15M Aurora was adjusted to my liking, it makes a NICE buggy kite (some of you know what I mean) Now I can explain HOW, and WHY kites work or don't work the way they do. And remedy is just a dream away for for someone like me.

I really wanted something that would be an all around great kite for me @ 180lb, small enough to pack and unpack quickly but have just a good a time as anything else with. The smaller fixed foil kites do just that. Depower takes just a bit more to launch and pack.

I was leaning toward a 8-9m as I believe that will get me the "zone" I was looking for. My new Offroad 7.1 (thanks hellnferno) might just be the one. It's the only one I haven't had the chance to fly it yet.

As for a 4M? I learned quickly there's not much difference between the pull of some small kites, to that of some of the larger kites. So personally, I passed over the 4M.

cheers

A newbie thinks that kite size is directly related to ability. Like "you start with a 3 and get bigger kites as you get better". If they think 3 is the average starting point, then they should start at 4 since they must be slightly better than average even if they have never touched a kite before.

I skipped 3 and 4 entirely. My first quad line power kite was a 5m. I remember the first time I flew it. I was very confident in my flying abilities, but the power of this thing just scared the freaking crap out of me the first one or two times I flew it. Now, I take it out in 20mph winds from time to time when the 8m would be too powered. Now though, I am so glad that I did not get a 4m because I would have been stuck with an odd size of kite that overlapped too much with other stuff. Since I started on a 5m instead, I can either go down to a 3m, or up to a 6.5m or 8m.

I'll admit I chose a 4m over a 3m for my first kite. I don't regret that decision to this day, matter of fact I still have that very kite due to sentimental reasons. I think I chose a 4m due to the fact that I'm a little heavier than average and our winds here are mediocre most of the time. I consider myself a very conservative kiter and felt a 4m wasn't going to be too much If I started slowly. Today depower is what I prefer, but take out the FB's once in a blue moon.:D

I started reading and realized that I needed to grow into bigger kites but needed to start with a trainer then gradually move up. I set up my quiver to do just that.

Michael I started you with a Slingshot 1.2m then, a Pro 4m that you and I both flew the crispy out of. The 3m Z2 that was your transition to a fast kite, a Zebra Checka 3.2m then a HQ Rush 5m neither one of us could fly with that crossover bar. You learned well kid. Just be careful with that 15m and 17m.

My Elliot 6.3 was a real scary beast, unpredictable and I just didn't like the PKD Brooza. I thought it was slow to respond in the air, probably needed to be tuned and tweaked.

I now know where I want to be. I feel most comfortable in the 3-5m range but because of a heaver race buggy will probably move up a bit to a 6-8m and then depower.

I really respect the power these kites generate and at my age don't want to cause myself any more pain than necessary. :P

If you don't know what you don't know yet and sift through all of the reviews you might say to yourself "a 4m will not kill me if I am cautious" and expect to get more use out of it.

The best bet is to somehow try before you buy. I graduated from a two line Seattle Air Gear WindDance 3 to a 3m Radsail and thought I knew what the pull would be like. Very different. Four line control was also a big change. I was amazed when I bought a 3.2m Crossfire - it had a lot more grunt and lift than the Radsail. My second kite was my 5.5m Profoil and in hindsight wish I had bought the 4.5m for typical summer conditions here (gusty wind, grass fields, pulling 190 lb on a landboard)

Quote: Originally posted by canuck

I graduated from a two line Seattle Air Gear WindDance 3 to a 3m Radsail and thought I knew what the pull would be like.

GACK :o Someone else owns a Windance 3 :o

ATB,
Sam

WOW. Some great thoughts here!! I was just scared at the sight of dudes flying their (at the time) huge 3-4 m kites.LOL I rolled Waaaaaaay back and bought my first HQ1.8:embarrased:. Damn near the second time out with all my kite wisdom, I got my arms ripped out and was sent flying :Ange09: I learned right then and there these are not cute little toys. About a year or so lapsed and I gained the confidence to step up to a real 3m quad line Ozone. Another year later, and I own a bunch of kites now. Heck, my latest addition was a 4m LOL. So in a time line, I started really small worked up larger, went smaller again, and then back up. Does that make sense? LOL
Be safe, Be smart, Have fun, and Live to kite another day

1st kite= HQ Scout II 4m

What was I thinking, as I started this sport? I was angling to build up my skill set to the point where I could manage a depower. I also wanted some pull, because I am a speed addict. I will never forget rocketing across an empty Tempelhof in 25+ knot winds, seeing how far and fast I could go before the next spin cycle of spankings. I wore ice hockey goalie pants, knee /shin guards, back protector, gloves +brain bucket, so I wasn't worried.

Maybe a 3m would have helped me learn to control my speed faster, but the 4m made me deal with feeling overpowered and taught me to nibble at the edge of the window, while keeping it low. After about three months of flying I needed a bigger kite, because working the 4m in 15kt winds while watching riders on 16m & 18m kites zip past me on the tarmac boosting on the edges, well that made me suffer from kite envy.

Based on the typical local winds and my interest in traction sport, Jörg, the dealer at Coronation-Industries.de, also was in the 4m camp. I would do it again the same way, no regrets about my first FB powerkite.

hi Bladerunner,i think your question was aswell as many other newbs aimed at me ,my reason is yes partly as newb you think get big first then i wont have to upgrade , and maybe some might not know that bigger kites are engines for buggys so not so thrilling a fly ,but for me i have my stunt kites for speed so i wanted to get a kick from power kite mainly power and control so a bigger kite for me static flying is what i want not a fast 2-3 meter kite , however because of advice from you and others i do want a 2.5 to 3 meter kite so thanks blade runner thats another £200 pound i have to beg the wife for LOL
Mike

You are just one of a large number of beginners that have gone this route zapper. I think I may have posted this just as you were buying but it is something I have wondered for a while.

Going 4m isn't a big mistake. I am just wondering why so many come in set on that size. You still made a good choice and are going to have a great time.

Just like Suds I started with a 4m Scout II. I was about 150 lbs when I started, but the average wind speed by me was about 10 mph. I wasn't too worried about getting hurt, the first few times I took it out there was practically no wind and I couldn't get it launched. I kept taking it out in a little bit more each time till I could get it up and going. I learned all the fundamentals from flying it so it was perfectly fine as a 'trainer' kite. And it can be used in windier conditions as a landboard or buggy engine now too instead of having a dedicated 'trainer' that that's all it can be really used for.


Versatility I think is the main reason more people are starting off with this size.


So far the Scout is the only kite I've been 'hurt' on and this was my like 20th or so time taking it out. I tried doing some static jumping in some pretty gusty wind, ended up with a busied heel for a week or so. If I had been trying it with the 3m Scout I may have been even more hurt because it being so little it just dropped me! That's when I decided to step it up to the bigger kites and the float is lovely!

I started with the 3m scout and it took me all of 5minutes on trying my board for the first time to realise i needed a bigger kite unless the winds were super strong. So if i could have my time again i'd probably go straight to the 4m and saved a few pennies when seeing if this is something i really want to do, that said the 3m is great for playing with and i learnt all about the wind window etc and having to work an underpowered and it has spanked me a couple of times in stronger winds - its just a little too small for learning to land board with imop.

Cheaper then larger kites.
Ignorance to the wind they NEED vs their comfort in wind the can FLY in safely.

I have this issue come up a lot. Students often think "smaller kite = easier to control/ fly" but in reality the LONG term issue is the lack of faith that the student will get better at kiting. Therefore knowing conditions, ability, and kite size equations that create good input for safe skillful flying.

Instead, they buy the kite that closely resembles a trainer (one they can control) and figure they will SLOWLY build up skills,

Unfortunate for them......,
The 4 m SUCKER punch comes when they can NEVER really ride unless they are able to get out in strong typically storm winds, which as we know are typically bad winds in general anyways.

bottom line.

small kites = big wind + inexperience = BAD DAY!

Crab,
Somehow we have to learn to balance our desire to push beyond our limits with respect for them.
I disagree with your equation, because there was nothing like needing to learn how far to push it, while maintaining reasonable safety.
For me:
my small kite + big wind + inexperience= epic day and a popped center cell
it was worth the repair

The first kite I put money on was my 6m ozone access. The first kite I flew was a 3.5m ozone imp 3 line trainer, that I picked up for $150 while waiting for my access to arrive. I was beaming from ear to ear to try my kite, and there wasn't wind for the first few days I owned it. When I finally got a wind day, I brought it to my parents acreage for everyone to try. Winds 20-25km I launched it straight down wind, got dragged on my heals a ways, then lost control and slammed the kite into the ground (really zero control the whole time). After an hour of messing with it with my father, my 70 year old grandmother gave it a try and got dragged on her butt a ways, then my grandfather gave it a shot too. I ended up flying taking that kite with me everywhere, just in case I would get a chance to fly it. Two long months later, my access came and I learned a lot that helped me with pilot skills. I still botched my first session with that kite because I was trying to launch by yanking on the bar like the FB trainer. After a few questions from you guys on here, I got going and never turned back. That access will always be in my quiver, and I just recently sold the trainer to a friend cheap, so he can get into the sport. I originally looked at a 5m Beamer, but gut told me there must be a reason every where you read a 3m FB was the recommended trainer. The sales guy told me the access would be close enough in power to a 3m FB, so I went with that. Glad I never got that 5m, but still want to learn to fly handles some day.

the thing is - when learning anything new there is a steep learning curve and people are bound to make mistakes in the choices they make due to lack of experience and individuality. Some heavier or more fearless people may be happy scaring them selves with a slightly larger kite, or it could be the wake up call they need to make them think - they arent called power kites for nothing.

Suds...I see where your at and I do not disagree with you, but your equation (like mine in the beginning) is something that not all people can par take in. Ive worked with a ton of folks that are very very scared of kites and when they buy a smaller kite they get out into the conditions that are over their head and then, say that they had a larger kite? they would either not go out or go out and VERY quickly get schooled (like you and I did).
I think that this is fine but then in the public's eye? This is how people get hurt break things kites by standers etc,.....def cause a bad name for the sport.

Where i am at location wise, accidents and or reckless "looking" behavior, causes major issues and can shut down places.

but yeah powerkites are POWER kites like Skutter said

so ultimately, it is a free place to choose what the kite can do to us right or wrong. FUN is the name of the game.....period. That FUN includes a healthy dose of fear/alertness inherently to the sport.

I started on the flexifoil super 10's long before getting my first real power kite, the 4.9

There's so much these stacker kites can teach you and they are just amazing fun! Why should anyones first power kite be a 3 or 4m and buggy package ? Seems like you'd be missing out.

Whether it's a small kite in big winds or a big kite in small winds I'd say the one thing students should learn to hone is not so much their skills but their judgement and I think some time spent on the 1m stackers might be the way to do it.

I was one of those stupid guys who thought that since I had flown a 2 line stunter then a 2 line 2.1m stunt foil that I could handle something much bigger,... Plus I thought I wanted to jump... So my first REAL kite was a 5.6m Twister IIR... BAD idea,... It was a great kite in steady wind, But that's something we don't have here in Atlanta... It subsequently picked me up and busted my hiney into the dirt, then I was scared of it so I bought a 3m Beamer V, and REALLY learned how to control a kite rather than survive one. Lesson learned.

In the end, if I were to think about WHY I wanted a bigger kite, (I initially was looking @ 4m kites) it was because I thought bigger was just cooler... A way to impress folks with the cool big new toy I had.

I flew a 3m Beamer in the summer when the winds were smooth and not to gusty. I thought a 3m kite was a toy till I got a 4m Prism and flew it in a strong steady wind. Big mistake. When they talk about strong pull they were not kidding. I figured I could handle a 4m kite with ease. I learned my lesson the hardway with a few pulled muscles. I'm 64 years old and now practice on a 2m Beamer and its a hoot even in very strong winds.

I'll bite.

It's always interesting to hear people's views on things. Especially those who are guilty of the very thing that they claim to be against. Amusing really.

On another note. If it hasn't been broached yet, what about the manufactures? Example Ozone "Pure" and Peter Lynn "Explore". Both are trainer kites complete with bar, harness, instructions RTF and both 4m. SO my question why did they pick 4m?

I should abstain since my first power kite was a 8.5m blade III which I reluctantly bought but bought nonetheless and it served me well at the time as I had been flying sport kites for at least 10 years and thoroughly understood the wind window and how kites generate power. That being said, after only a handful of selective sessions (I did only use it in low wind as I already appreciated the power of the wind) I bought a quiver of JOJO ETs and the 2.5 and 5.5m ETs greatly aided my learning curve and expanded my rideable days. I don't know if I've ever advocated using a small kite but I always advocate using your head if you choose a 10m depower or 4+m FB kite for your first. It is possible to learn on those kites as long as you are willing to limit your sessions to suitable weather conditions. I do admit "possible" is not the same as "safe" or "smart". That's where good judgment comes into play and I admit that most new to the sport don't know what they don't know and thus generally lack good judgment.

I had the opposite problem. I played it a little too safe on my first 2 purchases. I started out with a 2.5 meter and bought a 4 meter. If I had to do it all over again, I think I would have bought a 3 meter low aspect ratio kite and a 5 meter medium aspect kite. Although, I'm not sure because I'm still stuck on the 4 meter stage. My next kite will be the 5.5 twister which I would already have but we are trying to buy another house and watching the funds at the moment.

I have a 5.1m calling your name :D