I have tried several depower kites, including PL G1 15m, Montana 7m, FS Voodoo 7m, FS Mastair 9m, FS Psycho 15m, and 04 Frenzy 5m. Of all those kites, I liked the Montana and Frenzy the best by far. But they are not water relaunchable. The kite I liked 3rd best was is my Guerilla, but it handles way differently than the standard bridled foils. I still own this kite and still fly it once in a while, but I find that I am uncomfortable with it. I should add that the kites I liked least were all the Flysurfer kites. I dont know why, it is hard to pinpoint the reason, but they just dont handle well and seem very prone to problems with the pulleys and bridle.

What are your recommendations for a dual use (land/water) depower foil that handles like the Frenzy or Montana?

Any suggestions appreciated!!

Seany

I don't really plan on doing any kite surfing so my opinion isn't worth much but I think if you are looking for a kite that really can be used on land AND water you're going to lean more towards an PL Arc or a LEI.

All ram air foils are going to be subject to drowning if crashed into the water and not rapidly relaunched (especially if the waves are up) conversely, all LEIs are going to be subject to rupture if crashed on land which may make an arc a better solution but you've said you don't like those. Or spend lots of money and have a land and sea quiver. LEIs are good on land if the wind is clean so they aren't crashing. Not the best to set up in the snow and cold though once up they're fine.

With that said, I'll turn this discussion back over to the folks who know more about water relaunchable kites then I.

Seany... Ever thought about just keeping your foils for land, and getting an LEI for the water? Honestly I think that's your best bet. I was looking for the same type of kite myself not too long ago and the PL kites really didn't appeal to me.
Like B-Roc said..you can use the LEI's on land..you just don't wanna crash them into rocks, and other hard stuff. Bladder replacements can tend to be a bit costly if you do that and crash a lot. Also like he stated, a lot of people use them for snow, since that tends to be a bit more forgiving on the kite then hard packed dirt with rocks and such. However, once you pump an LEI up, you'll realize why you kept your foils. Personally, I can't imagine pumping one up in the dead of winter with winds too boot. In those conditions I really prefer, jumping out and doing what I went there to do..snowkite.

~Joe

The Peter Lynn Venom II kite is worlds better than the old Guerilla series kites. The Venom 2 has a stiffer profile which gives it a lot more bottom end grunt plus it turns probably 3 times faster than the Guerilla's ever did with almost no loss of power during the turns. With the improved tip profiles on the Venom 2, you get a lot more depower and range than with the older style arcs. The Venom also has internal adjustment buckles inside the trailing edge of the kite so you can set the kite up for the conditions you are riding in. Tighter buckles give you more pop and grunt, looser gives you a huge range and greater top end. If you like the gust handling and stability of your Guerilla, you will absolutly love your Venom 2.

If you are leaning away from the Peter Lynn twinskins, then your only real option is an LEI. Ozone has just released their Instinct depowerable water foil this year. This kite is based on the same technology as the Frenzy kite series and has huge depower and range. Build quality is second to none as it incorporates the same high quality standards Ozone puts into all of their kites. If you liked the Frenzy's you will love the Instinct. Its like using a Frenzy on water. The Instinct has an inflatable leading edge (LEI) and uses an "anti-invert" system similar to a 5th line system on the kite which gives the kite incredible stability. The Instinct doesnt use any pully's or complicated bridles on the kite or the bar. It is a very nice package.

Hope this helps.

B-Roc, Code, and Kent, thanks for the input. I really shy away from tube kites, even tho I dont know why. Maybe I should try one... I will never give up my fixed bridle kites for buggying, way too much control!! When the wind is right, I have gotten good runs with the G15, but it handles like poo. I like FS for the concept, but in practice they suck, IMHO. Anyone heard of VioKites? I think they make a sealed foil that depowers... Barring a miracle, I will probably go with a PL V2. My only hesitation is the price... But all new kites cost big... That is just the way!

Seany

Here is another question: PL Arc safety: How does the PL Zero4 and Zero 7 bars function. I have another brand bar on my G15 and when I pull the safety, the leash keeps one front line, sending the bar sometimes all the way to the kite. Making a huge mess. That is another reason I was hoping for a frenzy/montana like kite. Anyway, are the newer PL safetys any better?

Seany

Seany, With my PL:s I added a slingshot stopper ball at one kite span up the frontline that the leach is set to. This way the "crows nest" is avoided since the bar can only travel one kite span. Works realy well especially with Q-power lines.

Regarding the Guerilla I there is no comparison to the Venoms (heeeeppppps better in all respects).

/Urban.

I have heard of stopperballs and I can envision what they do. I have 2 questions though:
1. Dont they damage the line?
and
2. What is a good source for aftermarket ones?

I think I have decided on a V2 (or 3) now I need to save and convince the "better" half how badly I NEED one (or 3).

Seany

I have not detected any wear on the line. The ball is split in half and is mounted on the line with two supplied screws.

You can find it here:

http://www.realkiteboarding.com/index.cfm?page=catalog&c...

Bottom of the page.

I don´t believe you can go wrong with the Venom if you realy whant a combi kite.

Another idea is the new Peter Lynn Scorpion, sucesser of the Phantom. Mainly a land based kite but also usable on water.

/Urban.

The Scorpion looks totally awesome. Like Telekiter mentioned, it is usable on water but like the Phantoms can be a bit more technical to relaunch on water. Land relaunching is no problem. We are expecting our shipment of Scorpions to arrive around the end of Dec. or the first part of Jan. '07

Stopper balls are the ticket. Installs in seconds, no line damage. Just make sure your stopper ball is high enough on the line to allow the kite to totally flag out when the safety is pulled.

The Zer07 bars have just recently arrived. They have some pretty trick new features on them. The safety release has been improved and the leash system is a lot better. The '04 bar is super simple, clean and works great. We have had several who have used the Waroo bar on the PL's and have liked them because of the increased depower that bar gives the kites. If your bar is working good for you now then there probably isn't any need to change it out.