Just curious what kite would be best in the upper teens, low 20's MPH for use with the kite buggy. Would my snapshot 2.5 work? I haven't had the right conditions to test it in high wind in the buggy yet. Also, the lines on the snapshot are 100'. Would it be better to shorten them to 15 or 20 meter? I was planning on getting something medium ar in the 3 meter size. My guess is that would be ideal but not sure.

You wanna see what a 1.5 - 2m kite can do in 20 mph winds in the buggy? Check out WELDNGOD's vids in the VABB forum. I can also vouch for a 1.8 and 2m in that wind speed the last time we flew. It was 20+mph and that was plenty of FB wing!!!! :D . I prefer 25m on my buggy engines. That is subject to debate though.

In my humble opinion ONLY, a medium ar 3m in 20+ winds in going to be a BIG handful without some good buggy experience.
A higher aspect 2.5 or a lower aspect 3m would be the sweetspot.
Of course you do have a twister and a blade, so you're already a Wildman! LOL jk.

You can pull a buggy with the snapshot but you will have to work it a bit. It's not designed for it.

http://vimeo.com/80200976 :D

I got my start in the buggy with the snapshot 2.5....it will work, but will also work you. It's a good entry static kite, though it is definitely not a legitimate buggy engine. Get ahold of Bigkid and get your hands on a buster/buster pro, it's not a cheap kite...just an inexpensive one!

Quote: Originally posted by WELDNGOD

http://vimeo.com/80200976 :D

Now that is Heaven bro!!!

I have trouble keeping my 2.6m under control in the high teens... I'd say grab up a Buster soulfly, or even one of Big Mike's 2m Hornet II's that he has on sale (if he still has any). Soulfly might be a better buggy kite, but either will work in that kind of wind. Snapshop is a 2 line kite right? If so, I imagine it'll be difficult in the bug.

http://www.bigmikeskites.com/PeterLynn/Hornet/Hornet.htm

cool video. The only difference is that looked like a pretty smooth hard surface. I will be riding on grass so there so it takes a little be more to get moving. I'm very drawn to smeagul's 2 meter blade II he has for sale. I have a feeling that would pull just as much as a low ar 3 meter. I will give the snapshot a try on the next doable high wind day. The reason I thought about shortening the lines is I thought it might make the kite quicker in confined spaces. I might be wrong though.

Some more of WG's high wind goodness (from the VABB forum)

Little kites RULE!!!
http://vimeo.com/53914152



@ssayre, true about the smooth hard sand, but a larger kite on heavy grass will want to yank you out of the buggy before you even get rolling a lot of times. With momentum its not so bad. Taking off and turning can be a little hairy.

The 2.5 is bridled for four lines. It's sold as 4 line ready. Not sure it's truly a 2.5 M though. Seems to be measure a lot like the Symphonies.

Quote:

Of course you do have a twister and a blade, so you're already a Wildman! LOL jk.

As far as being a crazy guy, I had the blade flying static a couple of days ago in 15 mph gusty wind. The ground was frozen and had a couple inches of snow. It's a pretty frightening kite in that range. I flew across the fields with nothing but boots on my feet. I couldn't make it back to my ground stake so I used a frisbee golf post that was near where I ended up. I was careful not to send it to zenith. I'm not that crazy (yet). That would not have ended well. That kite is full of surprises, I'm still getting to know it.

Edit: What I meant by nothing but boots was I wasn't on skis or board. I was wearing clothes :D

I have already converted the snapshot to 4 line.

For fixed bridle, I'd not hesitate with the 3m Toxic. The Beamer would be easy predictable riding in 20. That was the sweet spot for my 3.5m Reactor II when I first moved to the desert. For getting real speed, the 2.7 Vapor would just be coming online. The 3.4 HQ Prodigy would be becoming a handful in 20 mph winds. 3.2 Vapor might be just right for aggressive riding.

For Depower, my 12m Phantom II is just coming into some power. I'd be having a good time with the 7m Montana. On a more sluggish surface, the 9m Montana would be lots of power but still manageable on a surface that keeps the speeds down. On the lakebed I couldn't use the 9 because the apparent wind would build too much.

For starting out in the buggy, you could play it safe with a 2m low to medium AR kite or bump up the power with a 3, but just use a lower AR till you feel comfortable in those winds. Then build up to a more aggressive kite in the 3m range.

@beamerbob: good advice. Just out of curiosity do you think a 2 meter blade II would produce as much power as a low ar 3 meter?

Not that I'm trying to convert anyone to depower or anything....that's a lie, I totally am.:evil: The 5m apex I picked up from southpadreburt pulled me away from FB a bit. Wind range from 15-30+, sweet spot 20-25, no scares with this thing. After building a FB quiver last year, I have been selling some off to fund the depows. Really excited to get into the performance depowers. Doesn.t hurt to explore your options.:D

@meatdriver. I agree. I have been thinking about not buying anymore fb until I get a depower. Although, I would still like to eventually get a good 3 and 5 meter fb

They're called 'Snapshots' because the line 'snaps' and your fun is 'shot'!:wow:


I picked what I needed by actually trying friends kites. Better to try(similar-if not exact) before you buy.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

@beamerbob: good advice. Just out of curiosity do you think a 2 meter blade II would produce as much power as a low ar 3 meter?

That would not be outside of expectations. My frame of reference was when I bought a 4.2m PKD Combat to fill in my quiver below my 5.5m PL Reactor II. Both kites had the same power. As you know, the RII is a medium aspect kite with good performance. The high AR race kite is at the top end of performance per square meter though.

Quote:

Riffclown: The 2.5 is bridled for four lines. It's sold as 4 line ready. Not sure it's truly a 2.5 M though. Seems to be measure a lot like the Symphonies.

Hey Riff, I think your right. Here is a side by side comparison between the 3m beamer and the 2.5m snapshot. I didn't measure or do any math but I'm pretty sure there is more than .5m difference between the 2.

If you are flying in gusty inland winds have you thought about nasa wings.

Susan (npw goddess)

Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob

That was the sweet spot for my 3.5m Reactor II when I first moved to the desert.

That was the same kite I was going to say for mid to low 20's ... especially on grass. Grass creates alot of drag so you need more sail.

The snapshots do not produce much of any power and their upwind capacity is non existent. They are more of a stunt fun foil than an actual traction kite. They are a great kite just not made for pulling.

If you get an older blade and expect to use it in a buggy you better buy a seatbelt for your buggy as well.

Quote:

That was the same kite I was going to say for mid to low 20's ... especially on grass. Grass creates alot of drag so you need more sail. The snapshots do not produce much of any power and their upwind capacity is non existent. They are more of a stunt fun foil than an actual traction kite. They are a great kite just not made for pulling. If you get an older blade and expect to use it in a buggy you better buy a seatbelt for your buggy as well.

I already purchased a high wind kite. I picked up a used 3m beamer. I don't get much high winds so I didn't go with anything high performance. I just wanted to still be able to still buggy on high wind days. As for an older blade, I use my 6.6m bIII as my low wind kite in the buggy. I've only used it a couple times on grass with winds around 12 and it seems to work well. I use my 4m twister for winds up in the teens which seems to do ok. Although, I have yet to use a kite designed as a buggy kite so my opinion my change once I do.

As far as the snapshot, did you see my pictures of it and the beamer? It sure doesn't look like there is only a .5m difference between the 2. I think the snapshot must be smaller than 2.5m.

edit: Small trainers like the Symphony are measured by wingspan. True power kites are measured by the square meter.

3shot, prism specs say it is square meter

http://prismkites.com/products-sf-snapshot25.php

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Quote: Riffclown: The 2.5 is bridled for four lines. It's sold as 4 line ready. Not sure it's truly a 2.5 M though. Seems to be measure a lot like the Symphonies. Hey Riff, I think your right. Here is a side by side comparison between the 3m beamer and the 2.5m snapshot. I didn't measure or do any math but I'm pretty sure there is more than .5m difference between the 2.

I had the Snapshot 2.5 for a while and used it in a trade for the Crossfire 4M when my friend that bought the 4M realized the same thing about the measurements and felt he had way too much kite on his hands. The span of the Snapshot 2.5 is the same as the Symphony 2.2. It is a bigger (read taller and squarer) kite than the Symphony but the numbers seem to skew when compared to the Crossfire 2M..

I did the math for several of the Sport kites when I still had the Snapshot and compared them to my Crossfire 2M. I was rounding the corners up and compensating slightly on the measurements. All numbers are approximate

Yields some interesting numbers

Kite--------------Height--Width-- Area
Snapshot 2.5---113----220-----2.486
Symphony 1.8--72-----180------1.296
Symphony 2.2--79-----220------1.738
Crossfire 2.0----86-----297------2.5542

Using the same system the Crossfire is a 2.5 as well...It's a valid measurement but not the standard measurement that our power kites adhere to. Fortunately, after you get past the sport kite arena, the manufacturers seem pretty consistent. HMMMMMMM. the downside is folks that don't know this, will accidentally take a big leap between kite sizes when the move up from the sport kites and end up with a kite they aren't quite ready for.. It'd be nice if someone in the business would clarify the ambiguity or apply the same standard to both ranges of foils.

I agree Riff, I remember when I was thinking about getting the 4 meter I thought to myself that it wouldn't be a huge jump because it wasn't going to be even twice as big as the snapshot. Then it showed up and looked visually 3 or 4 times bigger and felt like it had at least 4 times the power. That came as a pleasant surprise to me but to some it may have been a bit more than they bargained for. Of course some people may have other kiters in the area that would help them out and they would be aware ahead of time. In my case I've had to figure it out on my own.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Of course some people may have other kiters in the area that would help them out and they would be aware ahead of time. In my case I've had to figure it out on my own.

A lot of people find that out the hard way. My first kite was the Symphony 1.8m. My very next kite was a 3m Flow. Major surprise!!! 4 times the size of the Symphony LOL

My Symphony is 180cm. / 1.8 meter tip to tip.

I went from a Prism Stylus P.2 to a Tensor 5.0m... It scared the crap out of me the first time flying. I put it up in 10 mph and it was like being towed behind a ski boat compared to kites I had flown before. Now I toss it around like a toy after flying the Toxic and the Charger so much.

I'd place that responsibility on the sport kite guys. The square meter measurement is much more informative and somewhat accounts for length and height. If you add AR into purchase considerations it's even more skewed to surprise the new pilot.

Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob

I'd place that responsibility on the sport kite guys. The square meter measurement is much more informative and somewhat accounts for length and height. If you add AR into purchase considerations it's even more skewed to surprise the new pilot.

I agree BUT the Sport Kite guys also make Power kites. Why two standards?