Hi guys,

I would like to know if i could use my 2008 depower Ozone Frenzy 9m on water... because im going to LA this summer and wanted to continue kiteboarding and i dont want to spend more money on LEI as i have already 2 depower kites... so i wanted to know if it would work? if it would be able to pull me and incase it falls in the water (rare for me to drop the kite) would i be able to relaunch it or would it be impossible??

would greatly appreciate an input,

Thanks!!!

p.s. its an open cell kite

I've not flown a depower open cell but I would imagine that it would be just like a fixed bridle open cell which I have found impossible to reverse launch out of water. In fact, its more like a boat anchor when the cells start to fill, it makes it difficult just to get out of the water with your kite.

No it is not suitable for use in the water. Sell the foils and replace them with LEI.

Inflatables are just as good on land though self launch and landing requires a little more input than a foil unless you have something to clip the kitebar onto with a Karabiner (a post, kite anchor, buried sand bag, a tow bar) - then its easy.

You could look at closed cell foils which used to be popular with people who rode land and water but LEI are so good these days I really wouldn't bother.

it will work great, but man what sad day if you drop it, just one speed luff, LE collapse --->ITS OVER, and it could take YOU with it. AND even trying to salvage could prove deadly.

"serious injury or death may occur" fair WARNING.

hmmm i guess you guys are right, it wouldnt work out, not worth the risk... i might try it on a shallow lake here and see how it does

iv been looking at the ozone cat 9m 2013, what do you guys think of that one? for an all round use

thanks for the response guys!

The risk would be lower in waist to shoulder deep water, but there is no relaunch if it touches the water. You might get the kite back if you pull only on the lines attached to the trailing edge.

don't take my word for it as I'm not on the water but isn't a 9m foil or LEI a little small for "all around use" unless the winds are really up all the time?

i once spent 2 days picking seaweed out of my frenzy...had to let it dry good to get the stuff out of the cells..not pretty that was on a landboard w/ a off shore wind

B-Roc's right, if you're thinking of replacing the 9m Foil with an LEI it need to be bigger than 9m. 9m LEI is roughly equivalent to 5/6m foil. The only real exception would be a Peter Lynn Arc which has roughly the same power/size as an LEI.

Closed cell foil (Peter Lynn Arc, HQ Matrixx or NEO, Flysurfers) will get you out on land and water and will save you from having multiple kites for different environments. Contrary to lives2fly's statement they are still very popular especially as a low wind option. They set up and pack down easier and depending on what you settle on they will get you out on days when the LEIs can't get in the air.

I know riders that have ridden water with Frenzies and been fine. Top level riders though and not prone to dumping in the water.

On the other hand, if you do want to buy another kite LEIs are a dime a dozen. You can get a decent LEI for cheap money.

Crashing will mean an instant sea anchor. If you have plenty of shallows the you can work around it. Bring along a mesh bag . If you crash , roll up your lines and stuff the kite into the bag. Head back to shore set it up and fly it dry. I did this with my trainer a few times.

Folks are right. You can get LEI pretty cheap these days but be careful. Older LEI lack the safety and performance of newer models. C kites are best left to experienced riders.

Blade's right. Safe bet is to stay clear of anything pre-05/06.:evil:

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd

9m LEI is roughly equivalent to 5/6m foil. The only real exception would be a Peter Lynn Arc which has roughly the same power/size as an LEI.

please stop doing this, we must not perpetuate this falsehood, I have no idea why it has such traction.

9m LEI = 9m Depower kite. (control bar)
9m LEI = 12m ARC kite (peterlynn synergy/charger/phantom)
9m LEI = 4-5m Fixed Bridle kite. (handles)

my Ozone Frenzy fyx 9m(Depower Foil kite) and Slingshot Rev 9m (Depower LEI kite) are both the same amount of power. They have slightly different wind-ranges, and depower amounts, but it's the same "horsepower".

People saying stuff like this is how my dad ended up spending far too much on a kite that is far too big for him....and why it took me years to realize I needed a bigger kite!

Erratic I agree that there are exceptions to these comparisons and thus "roughly" is the term I used. However my statement is well within the ball park.

For example. Your Frenzy 9 fyx /9m rev comparison I would say if fairly close. But the 9m FYX was considerably underpowered compared to earlier versions of the Frenzy. When I first flew the FXY I thought there was something really wrong with the kite. There wasn't anything wrong, it just didn't have the power that I was used to in earlier Frenzy versions.

9m LEI 12m Arc comparison, You're essentially stating that a 12m, SYN, Charger 1 and Phantom are all the same power range which is simply not at all the case. For example, the performance envelope of the 12m Charger is considerably different than a 12m Synergy.

Also you're telling us that a 4-5m FB is the equivalent to a 12m Arc, and a 9m Depower able foil. I have to disagree there as well.

And a 9m LEI pre '05 is going to have a lot more powerful (and less depower) than a current 9m LEI. Even in Arc terms, my 12m F Arc (7.5m PA) has as much power as my 19m Charger 1 (11.9m PA) My 19m Charger doesn't have nearly the power of my 19m Psycho 4. The PA isn't even close. Another example, 3m Frenzy '05 and 3m Apex. We had both for a while and they could not have been more different kites. The Frenzy is a monster compared to the Apex.

We won't get into how this is affected by surface that you're riding, the air temp and humidity. If you fly one kite one day in warm dry winds and another the next day in cold humid winds the results in performance aren't going to be a direct comparison.

The bottom line is a bridled foil has a much flatter profile than a C shaped LEI. More of the wing is doing work in a given size range. Look at how Flysurfers or HQ's depower these days and it's a very good illustration of the principle. At full depower they look more like LEIs or Arcs than bridled foils.

The power to size comparison of open cell foils vs. LEI or Arcs is nothing new. I'm sorry you and your father had a hard time figuring out what sizes you needed. Part of the learning process I suppose if you aren't fortunate enough to have someone on hand guiding you or if you are getting advice from kiters that haven't spent much time on a wide range of kite designs and brands. These are the interwebs and info found here has to be taken with a grain of salt. An opinion is a good starting point but if you are going to purchase a kite based on an opinion it needs to be prudently researched and confirmed.

You're educated enough to give a proper answer along the lines of "Well there is a lot of variables", so please stop going with the short & incorrect version. You compare a lot of apples to oranges when you say 9m LEI=5-6m foil, but you're taking issue with me doing the same. :barf:

Quote: Originally posted by erratic winds

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd   9m LEI is roughly equivalent to 5/6m foil. The only real exception would be a Peter Lynn Arc which has roughly the same power/size as an LEI. 9m LEI = 4-5m Fixed Bridle kite. (handles)

Apples to oranges?, That's my point. Apples and oranges have as much in common as a bridled foil and an LEI.

Equivalent sizes do not have equivalent power when dealing in foils vs. LEIs and Arcs plain and simple. The Projected Areas are not even close even though the surface area is the same.

Having started on fixed bridles, moved to Frenzies then to Arcs I'm telling you this from first hand experience. When I have a speed session the Arc I used the most is in the 10-13m range. Starting on Venoms and now on Phantoms or Chargers. Prior to joining Peter Lynn, my go to size for speed would be on a 7m Frenzy. PA's of both types are the same.

There is no way I could do what I do on a 10-13m Frenzy.

I'm not sure what the issue is here.

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd

I'm not sure what the issue is here.

I was pretty clear but I'll repeat myself....

Quote: Originally posted by erratic winds

You compare a lot of apples to oranges....., but you're taking issue with me doing the same. :barf:

*throws hands up in disgust and walks away*

The difference in power between LEIs and Foils is common knowledge. As I said there are exceptions but by and larger the differences stand. If your Frenzy FXY has the same power as your Rev there could be a reason for it. The FXY came out with low bar pressure and was pretty low power for it's size to begin with. Those of us that started on the Frenzy switched to other kites in response to it's lack of power. If there are any tuning issues with it that could make it even less powerful. In your case your 9m Rev may very well be as powerful as YOUR 9m FXY. But as a general rule, this is not the case in foil vs. LEI discussion.

The only reason I chimed in was to help hugopugo avoid purchasing a kite that will have him underpowered on the water. My suggestion to hugopugo is to ask opinions on the subject outside those of us who are engaged in this thread.

As the examples I presented to you are not sufficiently illustrating to you the differences between a bridled foils power vs. a LEI or Arc, and have not convinced you that there is in fact difference I propose that you start another thread asking other members of the forum to weigh in.

To be clear, I'm not in anyway attacking you. If you feel that way I apologize and assure that is was not my attention.

Someone got out of the wrong side of the bed huh

There *are* a lot of variables, not only for the power and wind range but also the comfort of use. Peak power for a 9m LEI and a 4m FB might be the same, but I don't ever want to boost on a 4m FB.