Hi there,
I started flying my trainer kite about 7 months ago. It is a Prism tensor 3.1. I would just drag my heels in the sand or grass. It was fun the first 20hrs or so. Ive since bought an mbs comp 90, and an apex ion harness. Pulled myself around a little bit, but I'm definitely ready to move on to a depower kite! But the more I read online the more confused I get, because of my inexperience. So ill try to explain what I'm looking for and maybe some of you may have a few suggestions.
I appreciate your time!

•My goal:
kite landboarding, & snowkiting not huge huge air, but decent air and hangtime/float. Freestyle eventually. Not really speed too much.
Kiteboarding on water-I am saving till I move to St. Pete, FL in a few years near family.

•My features:
125lbs very fit, 5'5", female

•My location/conditions:
Upstate NY (Rochester area; kiter population = 2) so I'm usually a solo flyer. Also no kite shops, lessons or demos in my general area.
•Avg wind speeds: Oct-Mar=16 mph & Apr-Sept=8 mph. Gusty usually, avg gusts 20 mph give or take. Today gusts were 60 mph with 10 mph sustained winds. I opted out with my tensor today lol.
•Riding terrain: limited but I've found either an open field mowed grass or semi packed sand on lake Ontario. Winter the bay freezes over so ill probably try my skis & snowboard come winter time, if that's permitted there. If not ill keep searching for locations.

•What I have, & spent a considerable amount of time on:
3.1m Prism Tensor, apex ion harness, MBS comp 90, protective gear pads helmet etc

•What I've been looking at:
-Apex, or -Access but mostly the Montana 8 or 7? I dont understand the difference of the numbers other than their newer, but I read the Montana has more float and is slower or more sluggish in its maneuvers?
•I'm thinking 10m bc the guy said id get over powered learning on the 3m but never did & I understand quickly from the million videos I've watched how it reacts, so I was prepared (as one can be prior to hands on experience). As I feel I am for a depower now.
•I prefer a nice used foil, as I'm sure it'll crash its fair share. Budget though for kite bar & lines could be around $700 right now or $1000 in May if its worth the wait. Less is always better for used, but I want something I can use for a while and add other sizes when I learn a little more.

I think I covered it all. Sorry its such a long write up, but these are all factors in which kite I buy first with low unpredictable summer winds coming up. And I didn't want to have to play 1000?'s

Thanks again if you took the time to read and respond. I have 4 people I've trained with my gear that are eager to hear what I find out. Maybe ill have some kiting buddies after all.

Access won't give you much float but handle the gusts well ,the frenzy is a bit floatier, a 7m or a 9m. The hq kites are better priced, but haven't used them.
Have you considered an charger, phantom or similar, These can be used on water,( going by your long term idea) as can the flysurfers.... An 8 m speed 4 plus a 12m speed 3 will cover just about most things..... Ok it's expensive , but isn't everything.

Probably not much help, but can't hurt

The Montana is slower or more sluggish than what? The new models are simply more refined with tweaks over the years to both sailplan and bridle system. The newer ones have always turned faster but I confess I have not flown the very latest yet. But they usually don't work to slow them down. The Montanas will be faster and have more float than the apex or access for a given size by design and have always been favorites of mine.

Peter Lynn arcs (aka "twinskins") are great kites; very versatile and good gust munchers. There are enough out there that there are often good used specimens available at reasonable prices.

Welcome Shaina,

That is a good introduction. One thing you didn't mention is if you can travel . There are a few folks on here from your general area. A great crew that go to Nahant . If you can drive a few hours odds are you can meet up with some members ?

With a budget of 700 - $1000 I would seriously consider a 2 kite set up over a single newer kite.

I think 2 of the best deals out there these days are on used Flysurfer. Pulse and Pulse II ( Psycho III or IV ? ) would both serve you well . The other is Peter Lynn arcs. Venom , Venom II and Synergy in particular for you. Good news is both of these are closed cell and will work on water. Perhaps not the best kites for learning on water but ...

Flysurfer are arguably the best built kites out there and that is reflected in the sticker price. All that quality is still there in the Pulse series and yet the second hand price is on par with used open cell.

Arcs take a bit of extra learning due to their unique ground handling issues but once you learn the tricks and they are in the air they are my favorite kite ! Meeting up with somebody and trying one + getting a quick ground handling lesson would be an advantage in choosing.

If you are looking for something to jump with I would avoid Apex / Access. In my personal experience, I struggled with timing , nerves etc. learning to jump. The 15m Synergy seemed to hit the sweet spot for me and is still my favorite kite. Forgiving enough I can trust it but aggressive if I spank it . 15m may sound large but arcs are a different style of kite. It works for me ( 140lbs ) from about 8mph to 20+ mph wind.

You sort of have a high wind kite in the Tensor. I would suggest you get a depower to handle your average winds and then look for something to handle those near no wind days . As you suspect you will want about a 10m for the winds you describe. Your 3m will work when the 10 is too much for a while.

Float has a lot to do with sail size vs weight ratio. At 125 pounds and a 10m kite it doesnt really matter what model kite you will gain float. I would tend to lean more towards something a little smaller for your size.
In the lighter winds you will just need to trim it in and keep it moving. I'm afraid at your size and skill level any (non arc) 10m kite you will have trouble staying on the ground and holding a edge with your board.

Good morning guys! Thank you so much for your responses.
I can and would travel to meet and ride with others. I am willing to drive often (like weekly or bi weekly, weekends - whatever) at least 3-4 hrs away from the Rochester, NY area. I think that encompasses a bit of Canada, Pennsylvania, towards NYC a bit, Adirondacks etc.
Also I am going to Vegas in April I was hoping to find people out there ripping up the desert, buggy and landboards and such. Going to St. Pete, fl in July, figured I would take a few lessons on the water while I was there. Or at least ride the beach in non populated areas.

So I did a little more researching on the kites recommended above, and it looks like a Peter Lynn is the way to go to start. I like what I read on the Phantom & the Synergy. Although I don't have much to base my opinions on, but the opinions of others. If I can try or meet people before I become so over whelmed and just buy one of these two, I would love that. But I'm already obsessed. Completely obsessed. So the thought of searching and waiting and trying and contemplating, gives me slight anxiety lol. as does waiting for windyish days to fly them!

My questions now =
-If buying 2 new or used kites to cover my general wind ranges and abilities, would I want the synergy 15m? and phantom 9m? to start? I just noticed the last comment, and I certainly don't want to have those issues you mentioned! so are these too big?
More than likely though financially I am planning to buy one kite kind of asap, and another one in July. which should I buy first considering my skill level (lack there of), and wind conditions. I think I saw the synergy comes in 10m, 12m, & 15m? and the Phantom is 9m or 12m. Am I on the right track here? Like I said, the more I read, the more confused I get.
-The bar and lines- seem to be purchased separately when buying new? What cm bar would I need for my size or the specific kite recommended from above. ie phantom 9m kite with 45/55 cm or 55/65cm bar, 20m lines? 23 m lines? or something like that seems to be the options. just not sure what the difference is yet.

Thank You guys so much!!!

If you go the arc route and I'm not opposed to that but certainly my preference is for foils, keep in mind you may require a portable, battery powered leaf blower to help with inflation so factor that into the cost / complexity. Until you figure them out, they aren't as easy to self launch as an open celled foil. I've owned and was not a fan of the Pulse 2. Way too much power on the ground and regularly pulled ground stakes, plus they have a tendancy to back stall and then explode through the window with power - no fun on a landboard.

Given you're weight I'd recommend a 2 foil combo sized 7-8 and 11-12 if you prefer the lower wind days. If you want the high wind to moderate I'd go 4-5 and 7-9. If you go the arc route I can't advise you on proper sizing as I don't know.

Welcome to the addiction.
You've certainly found the best place to ask your questions.

There are as many opinions on which way to go as there are kiters. And they're all right. One of them will be the right blend of performance and cost to get you going on a board. I prefer flying FB, but it seems that those spending the most time on boards are using arcs.

Bladerunner's suggestions are good. No one kite will cover all the conditions for you (regardless if it's fixed bridle, depower or arc) -plan on at least two (that's where the addiction starts:-).

Given that you're able to travel, the other kiters in NY are a great group. (I'm sure that they'll chime in here too.) There's also a great group across the border in the Cambridge area. Vegas in April is the perfect scenario (and I'm envious) - look at the IBB forum for info on that event. It'll be an event to remember. A little closer and you could look at Nahant (for the wet flying) and Wildwood (for the hardpack).

Hey B Roc thanks for your input!
Luckily I own my own landscaping and property maintenance company so I have a bunch of leaf blowers if you're serious that that might work to help launch the closed cell kites that is. I read that about the pulse too, and that's the only thing I'm really afraid of is buying a kite that is too quick in the air and through gusts or too explosive for my size that I won't have the right control over it. I was originally looking at foils but the Peter Lynn arcs seem decent for my area conditions and goals, I think? I actually have no clue though. what brand foil do you recommend for decent lift and float/freestyle from your experience?

Hey shaina03, u r correct on Montana 7-8m for your weight and skill level.....I was once a newbie...and guess still a noob lol....yet able to learn and fly solo.....and now enjoyed cruising on frozen lake with my Montana4 9.5m almost every day as long as the wind speed is from 9-25kph range.....more than that range I just stay home like today and play WoT online or watch porn...lol...lol...lol.......seriously, better start with used depower kite like Montanas because they are so easy to learn, very stable and cheaper to acquire here.....go to for sale page and browse down to see what I mean......then later on when u have more experience flying solo....buy newer and brand new kites..........like me, I'm thinking to buy a LEI for this coming summer season for water kiting...if I can learn to skate board this Spring......and my choice is a brand new 12m Cabrinah Siren on sale now in Toronto at $899 complete with pump and its a 2013 model.....just sharing my thoughts...have fun Kiting!

Hey shaina03, u r correct on Montana 7-8m for your weight and skill level.....I was once a newbie...and guess still a noob lol....yet able to learn and fly solo.....and now enjoyed cruising on frozen lake with my Montana4 9.5m almost every day as long as the wind speed is from 9-25kph range.....more than that range I just stay home like today and play WoT online or watch porn...lol...lol...lol.......seriously, better start with used depower kite like Montanas because they are so easy to learn, very stable and cheaper to acquire here.....go to for sale page and browse down to see what I mean......then later on when u have more experience flying solo....buy newer and brand new kites..........like me, I'm thinking to buy a LEI for this coming summer season for water kiting...if I can learn to skate board this Spring......and my choice is a brand new 12m Cabrinah Siren on sale now in Toronto at $899 complete with pump and its a 2013 model.....just sharing my thoughts...have fun Kiting!

I am serious about the leaf blower. And not that I'm opposed to driving but I've been to Rochesther and I kite in Nahant. That is not as close as everyone seems to say it is. The Lake George area is 3+ hours away from my house and Nahant another 40 minutes beyond that. If you are in Rochester I would thank it at least a 5+ hour drive but I flew into Rochester and then drove back and forth between there and syracuse before flying home.

oh boy! thanks you guys for sharing your experience and knowledge!
although the overwhelming confusion sets in again lol.
I feel because I am so confused and flustered, it'd be best for me to just take a weekend trip before I buy, and go to a place that either has landboarding lessons, or can let me try a few kites and show me the rights and wrongs. im more of an instant gratification gal, so I wanted to avoid waiting, but that's just silly/dangerous the more I learn!
Any suggestions where? Either a good instructor to contact or does anyone have the knowledge, patience, conditions and supplies to show me a few things, that live in the general NE region. I don't mind driving if it will benefit me that much more in the short and long term.
I'll also be in NYC May 24th for a few days, so by then I should have a depower kite with some general knowledge. I'll be ready to inquire about adding other sizes and styles by then, if anyone is in that area and knows a good place to demo or friendly kiters that like to teach and share with other enthusiasts such as myself. id pay for damages god forbid something like that were to happen :-( hopefully not!! I'm a decently quick learner in sports.
but anyway, anyone within 5-6hrs of Rochester, NY have any info on a good weekend lesson to gain a little more knowledge, like sometime in early march, it's greatly appreciated!

I have flown arcs for years and never have had a blower. I think that generally if I don't have enough wind to fill my arc , I am not likely to get a ride out of it filled. It may fly but will still leave me standing. If you have a blower it is nice to speed things up but not essential gear. Smaller Flysurfers fill without any need for a blower.

Foils and particularly open cell are much quicker and easier to ground handle.

Seems I am a little off suggesting 10m although I feel you will be able to use your 3.1 when the 10 becomes too much ? I am not sure the top wind speed for Pulse, Montana , Frenzy etc. but thought they would be rated to cover winds into the low 20's ? Deduct a few mph from rated due to your size + beginner status.

While I think you would enjoy my 7m Pulse I feel it would be a similar experience to your 3.1 ? Small for your winds once you master it.

Sorry, I thought Nahant would be a little closer. Still you should make a post looking for folks near your area. Nothing beats getting some time in on different style kites before you buy. This really applies when it comes to arcs. If you don't get the ground handling down you can become very frustrated. They aren't everybody's kite. Taking your time on buying this kite will be time and money well spent.
Go in accepting that you will want / need a larger low wind kite as you grow but that can easily wait until June.

Phantom ( and scorpion ) is not a good choice for a 1st depower. They are a pretty unforgiving kite in smaller sizes. If you end up liking arcs an 18m Phantom may be in your future. They are gentle giants until you push them.

I'm a little bit taller than you but same weight. My two depower kites are 9.5M and 7M. I agree that you should not start out on anything bigger than a 7-8M. I suspect your wind conditions are a bit better than mine, I have a 9.5M because my winds can get pretty low. If the wind starts picking up or I've taken the 9.5M out in a slightly overpowered situation then because of my weight I have to be very careful. You will have to exercise some caution as well. Being a lightweight with these kites means erring on the side of caution always. Also, find a good skateboard style helmet and don't fly a depower kite without it on your head.

I have had to learn on my own because of not having anyone near me to learn from. It's better to try on someone else's gear in a supervised setting, but not impossible to learn on one's own. The key is common sense and respect for the kite and conditions you are attempting to fly in. Also don't rush your skill progression. Either the Access or Montana I think would be a good choice, but I'd stay away from a Frenzy. Personally, the sizing and not putting yourself in a position where you find yourself overpowered is the most important consideration right now. Choose a depower kite with stable control characteristics and not a "lift" machine to begin with. Remember, at your weight ANY kite can be a "lift machine." Start out with a 7-8M if you decide to go the foil route. I'm not an ARC flyer as my winds really don't support ARC's very well so you'll have to make that determination based on your own conditions.

haha I love how after every post, I think I've made my mind up, just to change it after the next one. lol typical for me I guess.
I do feel that anything below a 10m kite in my usual low pathetic wind conditions wouldn't be fun for me after I've gained a little experience. I don't really want to fly in too high of wind speeds to start because I am more after the air and tricks than cruising or speed. For now.
I'll hold off on the arcs for now because we really don't have a nice wind to get the most use out of it. but I'll be sure to give them a try later!
I put a message up in the 'Meet' section looking for others in this general area! Thanks Bladerunner!
So think a used 9m-10m montana VII will be my first kite?? Low summer winds are ahead. I can always sell it to a friend as I learn more too if I find it's not enough for me. But as you guys said, with my weight it should be enough to start. at least give me an idea of depower and basic skills without injuring myself in the process!

Yes, the very best advice is to meet up with others. Learning solo is tough. You'll have a much better idea of what to buy after trying their gear, which I'm sure they'll be happy to do.

Why not head over to Tug Hill? That is a regular hangout for snow kiting and you may be able to try / demo some gear there.

The hardest thing to do once smitten is not buying that next kite...you dont really have enough knowledge to do it correctly on your own...honestly if you stick around in this your gonna want a whole bunch of different kites....this is actually a good thing so just start buying stuff...it will be alright:D

lol that's definitely my life philosophy - "too much is just enough"
but seems though this is expensive and dangerous, I have to subdue my impulses, and at least start safe and smart.
I saw that I just missed the festival they had at tug hill last weekend. bummer, just my luck. ill put that in my 'meet up' ad and see when people plan to gather there again. It's only a couple hours, so that's definitely worth the trip!

2nd Redsky. Keep in mind kites can differ greatly even in the same size.

And if buying a used kite be sure of who you buy from. Buying a used kite can be like buying a used parachute some are okay, a lot are thrashed and sometimes it's not obvious.

This forum is a good place to look for used and a good place to ask about seller reputations.

If your schedule doesn't match up with IBB, I'm likely able to meet you at the New Silver Bowl Park and you can get a feel for my arcs and Montanas. I live in Henderson, just 12 minutes from McCarran airport.

I have Phantom IIs, 13m Venom, 19m Synergy and a 7 and 9m Montana for depower. I even have a small harness you can borrow. You might really like the Phantom II in 12m. It and the 7m Montana VII are my favorite kites.

That sounds great! I just replied on the 'wanted ad' you responded to but I couldn't not respond here too. I appreciate your generosity! I'll be in vegas around the 15th-19th, depending when the weather breaks here in NY and we can complete 3- 60sq roofs = vegas money
Either way I'd like the 9m Montana if you replace it with the new 8 model. But as soon as the plane tickets are booked I'll be sure to get ahold of ya! ive read about all the kites in your lineup during my searches so id love to know more about them first hand. enjoy IBB! ill be sure to try to attend more events in the future!

I'm loving your enthusiasm shaina03. Beamerbob is a legend. You couldn't pick a nicer bloke.

Thanks RedSky! I cant get enough and its just the beginning for me! This sport is what ive been missing in my life!
Love to ski - hate waiting in line for lifts and stupid high prices
Love to surf - dislike trying to catch a wave constantly to fall off and start all over
Love air! (adrenaline rush) - but get nervous on my mtn bike and snowmobile, prefer a softer, safer landing!
Kites solve all these issues for me which is why they are my current obsession and I don't see that fading any time soon!

This forum rocks and you folks have been super helpful! Do the words thank you ever get annoying? lol I like I've wrote it too many times, but its genuine!

Quote: Originally posted by RedSky

I'm loving your enthusiasm shaina03. Beamerbob is a legend. You couldn't pick a nicer bloke.

Ok Redsky thanks for the kudos. You made me blush with that one. I'm much more comfortable with the term "kite geek" though. :embarrased:

I am new to the sport this year and have two apex 4's, a 5.5m and a 11m that I use on the snow with skis. Just starting out I think I would go with an 8m and a 11m depower I found the 5.5m to be too small unless there are 25to 30 mph winds.

I run about 180 lbs an have had no problem getting lift with the Apex 4, in fact I my first time leaving the ground was unintentional in gusty winds with the 11m. I dont know if I would want to learn on a kite designed for lift, I think I could of gotten my self in trouble a couple of times. Like you most of my kitting is solo with out anyone around to rescue me, I guess I would start with a touring kite to learn on. HQ or Ozone are good kites and would be easy to sell if you got board with them.

I am up in the air on what my 3rd kite will be, like the others have said find someone with some kites you can try it will probably save you some money in the long run.

The Montana won't provide lift unless you are well powered or "tell it to". I've been almost 60 mph with the 7 meter and my oldest son has as well and they don't lift unless you whip it through zenith when it's powered up. But if you do that then you are begging for it.:D

All definitely good info for me to know! I feel that I will learn the basics faster than I could buy another kite to do what I want it to. Even small air for now is fine. But it's more setteling to know I won't usually go unexpectedly air born on the Montana. I tour with my tensor. It's fun. For a bit. But I can't wait to do tricks and jumps and float though!

Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob

Quote: Originally posted by RedSky   I'm loving your enthusiasm shaina03. Beamerbob is a legend. You couldn't pick a nicer bloke. Ok Redsky thanks for the kudos. You made me blush with that one. I'm much more comfortable with the term "kite geek" though. :embarrased:

I checked my Paypal account today and still no $50 ?