As my curiosity grows each day, what would be the deciding factor in purchasing my first depower?
Arc or open cell/bridled?

I love what both have to offer while researching the two. Just curious from my peeps here of the pros and cons of each. Mainly interested in just lazy buggy cruises down the beach. It's been hard watching the last few deals slip by on some nice arcs in the classifieds. Why is it mostly arcs that show up for sale here? I foresee a lot more PKF events in my future where this could apply. I am madly addicted to my FBs, but the curiosity is always there for depower.

Thoughts?
Thanks

If I were you and were going to jibe, I would see if anyone would let you try out both an arc and an open cell. That would probably be helpful for trying to figure out which way to go. Or you could always do what I do and just blindly buy kites and try them out. I would love to try an access or an apex in the buggy.

Edit: Not totally blind, I get a lot of help from everyone on here, I just meant no first hand experience.

LOL on blindly buying kites. Yes. Hands on would be the ultimate deciding factor as it truly is a personal preference. I was curious on the obvious pros and cons.

KHK has loaner kites you could try.. Get in touch with Adam at the Rodanthe store,

Probably wouldn't hurt to ask chris if you could borrow an Apex for a few hours.. I'd gladly ride down with you since I'm starting to think about a Depower also.

I love both the phantom IIs and Montana's. You should be able to try both at Jibe.

Yes, I have the Phannies and Chris at HQ should have the Montanas. I have the harnesses too. We are gong to drag your sorry ass down the beach ;-)

May have to do that one day riff!

I picked up a Divine harness the other day Angus. My wife just prefers me to be called a$$. "Sorry a$$" would be a promotion



So, everyone off the top of your head..... pros/cons of arc vs bridled depower?

JIBE is probably one of the best areas on the east coast for a cruising kite! Smooth on shore winds most of the time, you just can't beat it. I flew nothing but my Phantom 18m down there. Talk about a relaxing ride. I fly nothing but Phantoms at the moment and really enjoy the ride. That being said, sometimes I really miss flying FB kites, and will be soon adding some back in my kite trailer.

Watch the for sale section, you just never know what might pop up!

I hear ya Rich! That's the problem I have. So many killer deals I watched float on by because I don't know jack about em'. I actually lost sleep over two of them here recently. Almost blindly (as ssayre called it) bought one, but held off. Kites almost to fall in your lap around here when the moon, sun, and earth all line up it seems anyway.

The Montanas turn faster and are easier to land and launch. They also have a a safety system that is easier to recover from. I got overpowered just a few days ago at IBB with the 10m Montana and had to pull the tophat because I was sliding sideways through my buffer before camp. The power was killed instantly and as soon as I got stopped, I was able to pull the brake handle and reset the safety, then able to launch when ready. If you pull a safety in anger with an arc, you have a mess on your hands and a couple times to walk the lines before relaunch. With the arc, that is really tough if it's windy and you are a mile from camp with out a sandbag. That wouldn't be an issue at a beach but it's a big one at a dry lakebed.

Thank you Bob . That is the kind of info I'm after. The tid-bits you don't really read much about.

And I do now have a big weak spot for some HQ LOL. I friggin' love their Toxic line!!

I love the Peter Lynn's but if I was strictly using them on land, I would go open cell depower. The advantages is faster launching and packing away, easier self launching and landing and as Beamer has said, easier recovery from deploying the safety.
They are also a little better on the lower wind ranges.

Just my personal opinion.

Bob is dead on with that aspect, setting up arcs isn't that bad, but when you pop the hat it can be a chore. I have flown most of the open cell de power kites, and they usually are not too bad setting up and recovery after popping the top hat.

Good info guys! Good info

Like a lot of the others I fly both but Arcs and Flysurfer . Not open cell.

Love my arcs when they are in the air. Ground handling of them is my #1 peeve. While my 18m Phantom has a pretty darn good low end next to open cell their is a spot for the 19m SA below it in wind speeds. The SA also flies earlier than most open cell so ...

My 7m Pulse sets up and packs up quick and easy. The big SA as well.

I am with the others in thinking you are best to try and get some hands on experience before buying and don't judge them flying static. Arcs in particular are a very different animal in motion than static.

Thank you Ken!

The conventional wisdom about open cell depowers such as the Montana is that they are fast turning, twitchy, and will lift you to the moon the first chance it gets. I've had many conversations about the niche that the Apex fills and how the calm and predictable flyability of the Montana seems to do very well at things that people buy the Apex for. I've never been lifted by a Montana in the buggy but I don't ever let it swing through zenith. However, the Montana is the kite I learned to suicide jibe with. They stay pointed where you direct them, and lift will leave you alone if you fly the kite in a way that doesn't ask for it. They are very efficient kites and thus their wind range goes a bit lower than an arc you would use in similar winds.

I would say autozenith is a pro for the arcs.

Yeah arcs are a pain in the ass on the ground period. Everyone will admit to that. But arcs are the smoothest thing in the air since buttered silk. You get the best of both world with them: very direct steering with no pulleys between you and the kite, and unmatched gust munching.

You hear people talk about being the only ones in the air because it is so light, but an arc will let you be the only guy in the air because the wind is so crappy. My use able wind days nearly doubled when I got my charger because I can now kite any wind direction, even crappy dirty punchy stuff. Its like driving a Cadillac with 20 year old worn out suspension over a road full of potholes. You just don't feel all the bumps like the foils and inflated kites.

In clean winds, I just nearly wouldn't want any other kite up because of the brilliant auto zenith feature. In clean winds arcs become a hook locked into the sky over your head. You could lie down for a nap, have a seat and tie your shoe, help a friend untangle their lines, go to a family reunion, make a deposit at the bank, or even go to the barbor for a trim and a shave, all while having the kite sit up there and patiently wait for your commands.

Not to mention they are such an unconventional style of kite and just plain genius in terms of both simplicity and complexity. Also, since they are closed cell, they are suitable for basically any form of traction you want to do.

Pain in the ass on the ground. That is the price you pay to have such a work of art in the air. Oh, and they don't do light wind unless you have a 24m phanny

Well said Demoknight. Arcs have their place and they can do anything in the right hands and the performance they can provide more than makes up for the PITA ground handling. And to be fair, sure the ground handling can be a pain but it still beats the hell out of pumping an LEI. And with practice the ground handling gets a lot easier. For cruising, the stability is excellent.

Auto zenith is a nice feature especially in a crash but here we don't get steady enough winds for solid auto zenith. But for gust handling they rock and there aren't many kites that can even come close to the depower and wind range of Arcs. The only kite that comes close is the Peak. We have a pretty big Arc riding population here but the Peak is winning a lot of those riders over and Arcs are being relegated to water use while Peak popularity is growing just because they are so easy and so user friendly.

Flysurfer Speeds are the other popular closed cells here and even those guys are considering Peaks because of how easy they are to deal with and the broad wind range. I don't know anyone who drives a buggy that's tried the Peak so I can't say how they would be for that. For snow, they've been very good.

I've never tried open cell depower, so I'll only comment on ARCs and my Speed 2.

Like previously mentioned, ARCs are really smooth and have a great depower range. I normally just let the bar go when I felt something bad is about to happen and that normally does the trick. I never had to pull the safety except once because the lines were tangled with another kite. The auto zenith is such a great feature that I only land my ARC when it's time to pack-up and go home. I never had much ground handling issue with ARC either as I always pack my ARC with lines and bar attached and launch and land with a buddy (most time it's VAN, lol).

I didn't feel too much difference with Speed 2 except that I do miss the auto zenith feature every time I want to stop to do something. I also still haven't figured out how to go down wind with it very well as it flies so fast to the edge of the window, which is right in front of the direction of your traveling and cause you to loose tension.

WOW. Really good info now. Much thanks everyone!

I am no expert on either. I have both, open cell and arcs. I had the Phantoms for a year or two and never flew them because I enjoyed the Outlaws sooooooooo much. They both have their merits. I have actually devised a set - up method that (for me anyway) takes the hassle out of Arc launching.

Seriously, there are hardly any "bad" kites out there these days.

Not to thread drift, but what is the best depower for inland choppy wind. I got an arc because they are suppose to be good for that, but are there any others?

Both Apex and Montanas can do well with lumpy winds once you get to know them. Arcs are good with gusts since they tend to deform and absorb gusts that way.

Our dear late friend AJ would always joke about putting up his arc at 7:30 am and taking it down at 7:30 pm. For lunch he would tie it off on a log, fence post or trailer hitch and leave it in the air. That was not just for convenience as is was to mess with the heads of the LEI guys on the beach.

An ARC in light wind can be stalled and gently landed with a little bit of grace. Anything else is always a train wreck.

My 18m Phannie can be flown in 6-7 mph easy. A 12v PC muffin fan will inflate it minutes in light winds. I use a 7 v RC car battery from Radio Shack.

Ok. So for the most part it looks like once you master take off and landing, arcs really shine, unless you have to dump it in mid flight. I'm leaning towards an arc I do believe.

Like Feyd said, you aren't going to choose badly here.

Yep, once you learn the order of operations to set up, launch, and land, the only time you really have a mess on your hands is when you pop the safety in distress. If you are landing the kite you can pop the safety close to the ground with little or no fuss at all.

Oh and unlike what some say, launching an ARC is easy. Anything in life that you can do with a beer in one hand is easy in my book.