So a friend and I were talking about a local kite school and bashing them on Facebook anyways I went to there website and found this deal 199$ for land boarding lessons plus take a trainer kite home for free with the lesson. Here are there "trainer" kites.

http://okkite.myshopify.com/collections/trainer-kites-foil-k...

I wonder which one comes free with the lesson...

Kinda reminds me of the old jonesband threads.

Why the bashing?

Not sure about the unbranded kite that goes for $99.

The JAKKS Kites are made by JAKKS Pacific's kite division GO FLY A KITE. While they probably aren't built to paraglider standards, they're probably fine as recreational flyers.

Considering the initial lessons most likely focus on judging the environment & wind conditions, the wind windows, launches, relaunches, ground work, etc not really sure how fancy/spendy/advanced the kite needs to be.

Free kite with lesson is just a way of providing you with a gateway drug.... not that there's anything wrong with that.

I expect if you want a more advanced kite, you can probably upgrade to it at the time of the lesson with a slight upcharge. They already offer you a 10% discount if you mention them on your Facebook feed.

Past their trainer kites, their selection seems to be name brands, so I don't have a real problem with them trying to minimize their overhead at the low end.

Gotta put food on the table and make sure the cat gets fed.






ATB,
Sam

The real reason for the bashing is the scamming they do. They charged a woman 300$ for a 3 hour lesson. The instructor couldn't get the kite in the air and I was cruising around on a 5 meter kite. The woman had to drive in about 2 hours for her lesson. Didn't get to fly the kite and he didn't even explain the wind window. He showed her how to pack up the kite then left. She came over to talk to me. I told her about my kites, the wind window, the differences between the kites.

Then set up a 2m kite for her to fly. She flew it for a few minutes. Then asked about the buggy. I set up a tandem put up my vapor 3.2 and buggied us around for around 15 minutes. She had a blast and she told me about her experience with the kite school. I told her to use a different school. One that actually teaches and wouldn't have charged her near as much.

OK.... much clearer with the back story included.

Hopefully, the woman pursued a refund.

Did they take down your comments on Facebook? I couldn't find them.

ATB,
Sam

It was in a private group. Sorry Sam. They also did not give her a refund also from what I have gathered they also do not teach proper etiquette like right of way and stuff. They create a bunch of unsafe newbies then send them out on the water. Someone is going to get hurt and we are going to lose our local kiteboarding spot.

My hat off to you pyro for saving that lady a wasted 2hr drive. Who needs lessons for land based stuff, just hook up with a local flyer by joining a forum.

"Trainer Kites, or foil kites as they are often called, are an excellent kite for beginners who are not sure if they are into kiting yet or for kiters who just want to dominate on the land. They are perfect for all ages and help with the progression of kite control."

I see the same sort of person posting locally on my CL. It's sad.

My concern would be if this guy has insurance to be doing this ?

Giving operation and safety instruction as a courtesy service is one thing but charging for a " lesson " kind of changes things ?

I would be curious what kind of certification the instructor has ? There is a reason for IKO and PASA being out there.

Website says PASA certified but I don't think the instructors are all certified. According to one of our locals most of there instructors are hired from a craigslist ad.

@redsky
She was trying to learn kite surfing but like I said they could t get the rig up in the sky. From what I gathered he said there wasn't enough wind. If i remember correctly it was a 12m LEI.

Hang on tight, this is a long winded one...

"Considering the initial lessons most likely focus on judging the environment & wind conditions, the wind windows, launches, relaunches, ground work, etc not really sure how fancy/spendy/advanced the kite needs to be.

Free kite with lesson is just a way of providing you with a gateway drug.... not that there's anything wrong with that."

This is exactly it Sam. At Hardwater Kiting we offer the same thing with an HQ 1.7m sport kite. We offer it as an option for people who are unsure if they want to pursue snowkiting and want to try flying a kite first without major investment. They get an hour instruction and they take the kite home as homework to prime them for their next lesson.

This is important as many of our student are from 3-6hrs away and sometimes weeks pass between lessons. The result is we spend a good part of the next lesson refreshing what they learned in the first lesson. Which is not the best use of that lesson time.

As a bonus they have a kite that's just fun to fly as well as good for building muscle memory. If they want to upgrade to a higher performance wing, such as a Hydra, we do that as well.

It's interesting to see people's point of view about kite schools. The mentality of " just have a buddy teach you." is always a fun one. If your buddy is trained, experienced, experienced, experienced and certified then I say go nuts. If not, you get what you pay for and you will only be as good as your buddy's skillset and safety protocol.

I see a lot of buddy instruction and it makes me cringe. If you think you can teach someone everything they need to know and make it stick in 3hrs you wrong. We offer a 5hr intensive lesson that is supposed to do exactly that and very few people are able to digest and retain it all. Breaking it up does much better but most people want instant gratification.

That said, I see "professional" instruction sometimes that's not much, if at all, better. IKO cranks out instructors left and right for land and surf kiting. It's a huge money maker for them. Go through their instructor lists tho and take a look at how long some of those people have been kiting. Many are less than 5 yrs.

Many of our water riders transitioning to snow often remark about how little they learned in their water lessons. The focus was mostly just in trying to get they client flying the kite and maybe riding at some level. Without the self rescue instruction, right of way, etc... That being the case there may be some value in buddy lessons if your buddy is kiting at a pro level and has an excellent safety record.

The as BR pointed out we are here in the land of the lawsuit. I got my IKO instructor cert. to qualify for their insurance. Otherwise no insurance company will cover you here. If you don't have insurance, proper paperwork (the paperwork SUCKS) you are completely open to liability WETHER YOU TAKE MONEY OR NOT. When you assume an instructor role you assume the liability. If you have someone on your gear and they get hurt you can bet a good lawyer will be able to push it. As far as IKO certification goes, at least for snow, much of the IKO snowkite certification is simply their water cert converted for winter. It doesn't deal with many of the aspects we teach in our lessons. Our goal is to build snowkiters. We want disciples to the genre not dabblers. Those who say any form of power kiting is easy to learn probably isn't riding at any remarkable performance level.

I don't know who this outfit you guys are trashing is. It doesn't matter. But I want to let people know that instruction is serious business and often certified instructors and local kite hero can be lame instructors just like local riders can be excellent instructors. The same goes for students. Sometimes you get students that are committed and open to the experience and sometimes you get people who just thought "it looked like fun". I've had maybe two students that really seemed impossible. To the point that they did 5hrs and didn't really get a handle on much of anything and were no way certifiable to L3. I prorated follow ups for them, thinking it was a failure on my part. It really bothered me for a long time until I asked around to other instructors and long time professional educators. After describing the experience they assured me that not everyone get it. No matter what "it" is. Sometimes there are just bad students. But that's rare.

On the other side of the spectrum I get a few raw beginners who sign up for a level 1 certification and they blaze through in about half the time and finish sometimes able to do everything for mid L3 certification. It kills my future lessons with them but it makes more new snowkiters to ride with and that's damn awesome.

Some people will say you shouldn't have to pay for lessons. People pay for ski lessons. People pay for golf lessons. Kiting is at least as technical as those examples. Some say you can learn on your own. I'm proof of that. I learned a lot more learning on my own than I would have learned from lessons. But if I could have taken lessons some things would have been learned faster and safer. I could have learned the extra stuff the IKO doesn't cover after getting the fundamentals dialed. But I think a lesson, even if it's L1 (mostly safety and ground school) is a great investment.

It's hard to tell. From the description here it sounds like this outfit may just be a money grab. Maybe it was a bad day for everyone involved, I don't know. But I will say that becoming an instructor (for both snowkite and mountain bike) and trying to make a living at it is by far the most work you will ever do for the least amount of money.

But when things go well. When that student does their first huck or manages to go upwind and starts cruising around the lake at will, it's and awarding and exhilarating experience.

And I'm spent. :duh:

Feyd, I always like your insight on all aspects of kiting, thanks for sharing. By the way I'm self taught and forum taught and today I somehow hit my release on the venom and somehow hit the leash release the same time. I had the leash hooked to the spreader right next to the chicken loop. Maybe a lesson would have saved me from chasing my kite.

Quote: Originally posted by pyro22487

@redsky She was trying to learn kite surfing but like I said they could t get the rig up in the sky. From what I gathered he said there wasn't enough wind. If i remember correctly it was a 12m LEI.

Ok cool. I have a habit of reading things wrong. I thought she was there to learn land kiting.

Turns out the instructor of the school yesterday got yanked and almost thrown into some trees. The winds were super gusty and he put up a 7m older kite and didn't have it trimmed in. Straight launched it right as the gust changed the direction of the wind and fully powered the kite on land. He was lucky. Also he wasn't wearing a helmet. Yea this is the guy I want to take lessons from...

Sorry to revive this thread thought it needed an update after yesterday's development.

their good quotient might be low... but the're consistent!

Well, not to defend the guy, but I have seen a local kite shop owner and certified instructor yanked and bounced off the ground a few times and he is one of the most competent power kiters I have ever met before. That being said, based on what you previously mentioned about this particular bloke, he sounds like a self taught kiter that has "been kite surfing these beaches for ten years." I have met several guys like that, and seen most of them thrown off the beach by local certified kiters because we self-regulate here. Good on you for helping that woman though. I hope she got a refund for a crappy kite demo, because it definitely doesn't sound like a lesson.

When someone say's they've been doing anything for XYZ years it could be they've been doing it wrong the whole time. This is why training protocol and some kind of standard is important. But also experience counts and the blanket type of Instructor training is not appropriate for all areas. Some adaption is required in some cases and knowing what and how.


On the flipside I had an instructor contact us wondering if we were hiring for next season. Certified as a water instructor by IKO. He's been kiting for 2 years.

If you were getting a pilot's license would you take instruction from someone who's only been flying for 2 years?

If they learned so fast and became certified so fast, I personally would take lessons from them. That means that whoever taught them was a great teacher and they can pass that same kind of thoughtful training on to their students.

I think that's a fine idea, let us know how that goes.:D

I sometimes still go out hunting for bad weather, flying low in simple airplanes to explore the inner reaches of the clouds. Less experienced pilots occasionally join me, not to learn formal lessons about weather flying, but with a more advanced purpose in mind — to accompany me in the slow accumulation of experience through circumstances that never repeat in a place that defies mastery.

— William Langeweische