Hello,

This is my first post on the forum although I've been reading for awhile. It took some time to join the forum due to e-mail issues but I'm here now and just in time. The wife approved my next kite purchase!

Experience:

Kites - 2 line stunt kites with spars, 2 line foil Mighty Bug .5, and my last purchase a 4 line HQ Beamer V 2m.

Winds - I live in Nebraska so the winds here are crazy at times but I do have experience flying from 2-4MPH lows all the way up 30mph winds. They go much higher than that here and change direction a lot but I either bail out or change direction and adapt by flying out of the power window. No sense getting hurt or breaking lines. Worst case if the winds go dead I'll go disc golf.

Help - I'm flying solo, with the family, or brother in law but no experienced flyers

Background - I've flown R/C sailplanes both slope and thermal competitively before I could ride a bike as a child and now I'm in my 30s with a family of my own. During that time of flying R/C I was introduced to stunt kites and always wanted to get back into it so I decided last year to dive back into it after dabbling in 2 line stunt kites for years as a kid. While looking into those kites I got a foil and was hooked. That progressed into a 4 line Beamer V 2m per recommendations from forum reads and calls to Into The Wind kites and Big Mike's Kites awhile back. I settled on the Beamer V 2m as it seemed like the most tame starting point I could step into. Now I want something more.

Research:

I think i have a reasonable grasp of the wind scale and which kites should be out in what winds and that selecting kites is like selecting golf clubs. They each have a purpose for different activities, winds, and skill levels. I know so far that even suggesting something as stupid as a big lofty kite like a Flexifoil Blade will warrant scolding from seasoned vets so I'm sufficiently scared senseless from ever trying one ... ever. I know I'm looking for a fixed bridle kite between 4 to 5 meters to achieve the pull I want for lighter winds or even the lift if I decide to try to pendulum jump one day (remains to be seen).

Want:

I'm looking for a bigger kite that will pull hard in milder winds but not scare the wife into making me quit the hobby or worse cause me to severely injure myself. Something that tugs hard between 4-12mph and has manageable lift if I decide to jump at some point. I fly static right now but one day might try land board but nothing crazy, just flying in a local wide open park on the edge of town. I do not however want something that will accidentally pull me into the air unexpectedly and drop me like a rock. I weigh about 235lbs at 6'2" so I'm no bean pole but I realize that everyone has a limit before they are dragged off unwillingly so I'm sharing that info to help you advise me.

Conclusions So Far:

Beamer V 4M: Possibility for lighter winds and should have a lot more pull but not a lofty kite and I want to expand my kiting experience beyond this model.

Twister iiR 4M: More aggressive than the Beamer line from HQ and looks very manageable in the winds I'm looking for another kite in but if I ever tried jumping this thing it's gonna probably end badly since I'm a bigger guy.

Twister iiR 5.5M: A big step up from the 4M and will have me scudding in no time in the winds I want another kite for but I'm petrified this thing might loft me accidentally. I was assured by Mike from Big Mike's Kites that this will not lift me in those winds if I don't want to be lifted and I trust his word but I'm worried this thing could be too much kite in general since it's a big step not only in size from my entry level kite but in aspect ratio and lift.

So far I'm torn between a Twister iiR 4M or a Twister iiR 5.5M. I've heard a lot of praise for this model based on flyers who have similar flying needs but that doesn't mean it's right for me. Since I have no one around me to advise me I figured I'd turn to the forum I've been reading. Have I steered myself into the wrong kite for my next purchase? What would you guys suggest?

Both will blow your mind from what you've been used to. 5.5 won't be too big of step as long as you start in winds less than 10 and work your way up. The 5.5 will be easier to resell if the time comes. The 4 meter is a great size to have on hand if you buy wheels from 13-18 mph wind.
Welcome to the fun.

By the way, I do small jumps with my 4 meter twister all the time even though it's ill advised. You just don't want to go big or fly in real gusty wind and get a nasty surprise.

Edit: If jumping is the goal, it is easier to jump in lighter, more manageable wind with a larger kite that will provide float than a smaller kite in higher gustier wind that will not provide as large of canopy.

The twister is a fast kite with lots of lift. In line with Flexifoil blade. More of an advanced kite than intermediate. It sounds to me like you are looking for something more like the hornet in the Peter Lynn line ? Less lift and more stable.

Any kite will lift you if you fly it in the right wind and way.

One way to reduce the chance of being accidently lofted is to not keep the kite overhead when standing around or walking upwind. If you keep it off to the side and a gust hits you will get sent downwind rather than skyward.

Points well taken from both posts, I think I will try a Twister. I'm going with the 5.5 in sub 10 mph winds. Probably try it the first few times in 4 to 6 mph winds to get to know the kite then work up to a 8 to 10 mph day. These next couple of months are the lightest for wind in Nebraska so this will be a good couple of months to get to know the kite. If it doesn't work out I'll downsize via a trade or go with a tamer model such as the Hornet.

Welcome to the best forum on the web

You can get away with moving up to a 5.5m Twister, as long as your first dozen or so flights are in sub 15 (including gusts). The general advice frequently given by wise ones here is, when you get to a point where you can fly the Twister blindfolded in these winds, then you can start taking it out in more wind.

Jumping - another "rule of thumb" on the forum here has been to try to have at least 5m of foil if you're going to try jumping. It's actually a little bit safer to have a larger foil and jump in lesser winds as the kite responds a little bit slower and provides a little bit more buffer to badly timed re-directs. 5.5m will get you in the air but the wind it takes to get you there is less forgiving to mistakes.

Take it slow and safe and that 5.5m will be an awesome all-around kite for scudding, jumping, landboarding, etc.

Well today I received my Peter Lynn Twister 5.5M kite from Big Mike's Kites. First off thanks to Mike for delivering the kite in a very timely manor and it was exactly as described. He even threw in a Big Mike's Kites button and the most recent Peter Lynn power kite catalog. Thanks Mike!

Inventory: The kite bag was very nice similar to my HQ Beamer bag but a little nicer and it actually sits like a regular old backpack on your back. Inside was a big orange plastic stake with sleeve, lines on separate line handles separated by line type (brakes on one, power on the other), two handle bars, the kite, and instructions. I did not see a strop line like the one that came with my Beamer V but that is a minor issue.

Setup: Being that this wasn't my first 4 line power kite I was setup and running in 15 minutes after leaving the car. I took a little extra time to enjoy the suttle little things for setup that would make setup a cake walk for a first time flyer such as numbered lines and bridles so there was no mistaking what went where. Although this kite is NOT a beginner kite nor an expert kite I imagine this same layout is present on the Hornet and other beginner Peter Lynn kites. Although I just got the kite today I had been watching the wind forecasts like a hawk and I knew my best day to try would be tonight at dusk. I took care to setup out of the power window just in case but I found with the winds being so light it wasn't necessary but none the less a good habit to be in with such a powerful kite. All in all no surprises during setup.

First Flight: The first flight was taken in 5 to 8 MPH winds. The first tug on the lines resulted in ... the kite going up, twisting, and slamming into the ground. Not to worry though because although I'm a beginner power kite pilot I've been flying R/C planes before I could ride a bike so I instantly knew I had a line that must have got twisted or pulled through wrong when I tugged the loops down. Sure enough I found a line that was pulled through another bridle line and I was off and going. The second tug resulted the the kite coming to life but it was nothing like I was expecting.

Up till now I've flow fast flying, constant power kites. This thing at first went up like a sheet in the wind but barely felt like anything on the line ... at first. Eventually as I worked the kite more the more it came to life. It would feel like dragging a wet blanket through water at times to hooking into a horse trying to pull you away the next. The kite did well at speed relative for the kite size but it was definitely not a sharp turning kite for the winds given. When the winds did gust higher I noticed two key observations.

1) Most beginner kites get tame when you take them to zenith or 12 o'clock high but this thing just gets going as you are going up. If you leave it parked at zenith you are begging for trouble. It's like the kite has an inverted power window, although it pulls down low it is down right strong at zenith. I was not accustom to this but in light winds it wasn't a dangerous or scary situation at all. It did lead me to question how good is it to train someone on a trainer kite where they will learn bad habits like parking a kite at zenith. So in the future I will from this date stop parking all kites above my head, foreign or familiar.

2) The power build on this kite has a lot more potential than a trainer but nothing like you are expecting as a first timer. You always hear of this power build ("the power builds quickly") but you don't know what it feels like until it happens.

A) My Beamer 2m builds power but more through sheer speed similar to how
a smaller car takes less power to accelerate, reach speed, decelerate, and turn. Because of it's sail size, weight, and aspect ratio vs my weight it's easy to get under control quickly.

B) My Twister 5.5m builds power like a train (a very cliche phrase) but in all reality this is true beyond just the pull when it hooks up. It takes awhile to build up speed like a train but when the power is finally there is comes on hard and for a first timer it wakes up that part of your brain that says "Whoa what is going on and what have you gotten us into now?". It builds power slow but when it hits that zone of what your body can handle you think "oh man it's coming on fast!" when in reality it is not, it's your mind and body being stretched to a new limit and you're reaching the limit of your body's potential to handle the kite's power potential quickly. This can be very different for different people and is why experience and body size plays a role in kite selection and recommendation. After flying this I now get WHY this is such a fluid topic of what is good for one person may not be for another.

Now, couple these two observations and you can see the caution that is applied to bigger kites that are high lift/pulling power kites. If I was to get this thing built up to speed and power somewhere between the lower power zone and zenith then go speed this thing across either of the two zones you would have a surge in power you may or may not be ready to handle. Apply a little physics/common sense here and you can see you have only 2 possible results.

1) Harness the excess energy created by bleeding it off in a scud, jump, or transportation device such as a land board or buggy.

Or

2) Panic and resist the energy by fighting it or digging in which could more than likely result in you being "Spanked" hard.

Down to Brass Tax: I enjoy this kite so far and look forward to growing into it and gaining the wisdom to harness the energy through lengthy scuds or eventually a jump now and then but I see much more potential and safety in using something with a set of wheels. This is an engine not your mommy's kite she bought you as a kid to stare at in the sky and say "look at that!". It is a tool to do very amazing things but used improperly it can do equally amazingly bad things.

Would I recommend this kite to someone with my skill level?

Yes but only with the cautions expressed on this forum to proceed with extreme caution and respect for the kite.

Am I happy with the purchase?

Yes, very happy and I feel as though I've been challenged. The gauntlet has been laid down and I have a new kite to master. Hopefully I come out of that challenge unscathed so I can purchase more kites again in the future.

Parting thoughts:

To the person looking to get this kite who is in a similar position that I'm in now skill wise. If you walk up and disrespect this kite it can and will spank you, hard. Every kite can spank you but as you scale up the potential of the kite so does the consequences of poor choices. So have a healthy, educated fear, and respect before doing something you'll regret.

Thanks again Mike!

P.S.

On a side note I think I started drawing a small crowd of people across the park wondering what I was doing lol. That and it stopped quite a few joggers dead in their tracks when the lines would start whistling.

Great story. My 4m twister is the first real power kite that I purchased and still my favorite kite for all around fun followed closely by the viper. I still harbor a desire to get that famed size of twister.

yea good read...seems you got this all figured out..i hope your first spanking leaves you laughing and wanting more:D

Glad you are respecting the power / lift.

Try doing " brake turns". Turning the kite by applying brake input to only one side. Then try adding brake input with front line input. This will speed up your turns .

Speed equals power. You can reduce the power as the kite heads through the power zone by adding brake input to both sides.

Good read Husker!

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

i hope your first spanking leaves you laughing and wanting more:D

He's asking about things with wheels and building power. The addiction has set its hooks in.

I may have not gotten spanked tonight but I did get dragged from a sitting scud to a backwards back slide. I took out the Beamer V 2m in 15 MPH winds with gusts from 25 to 27 MPH with my brother in law and the winds kept changing direction on us and I got rolled while sitting down working on sitting scuds.

My brother in law on the other hand had his first experience with a 4-line kite tonight. He has flown my 0.5 Mighty Bug in 30 MPH winds with heavier lines and wasn't impressed so he was kinda skeptical until he watched me scud standing a few feet, run 30 to 40 feet sideways when the wind switched, and eventually watched me scud sitting down at least a good 10 feet or so.

He wanted a shot at it so after a 15 minute learning session of launching, untangling lines, and going over the controls I turned him loose. He is the same size as me if not bigger and he got pulled all over the park. Eventually he got tripped up and tried to dig in with his knee into soft wet grass which only gave way and he got dragged face first. I was worried he was going to be mad but he just laughed and smiled. I think he has a new respect for my hobby now and he was already asking me about buggies and transportation to hook into with the kites I hope the addiction has set in for him a little too because sharing in a hobby like this makes it a lot funner.

:D :wee:
Sounds like fun. Those gusts are pretty stout even for a 2m as you see. Just be safe, and have fun. Hope you guys have a helmet

Too much fun!

According to intellicast we actually topped out in York, NE a couple of times at 32 MPH wind gusts over a few hours lol. I don't think we'll be doing that again, lots of fun but the wind was so erratic that we couldn't tell which direction the wind was coming from from one minute to the next.

http://www.intellicast.com/Local/Observation.aspx?location=U...

About half way into the session I had to dial in brake trim from the knots on the brake lines to keep the kite from going crazy each time it would gust that high but even then it was so easy to accidentally speed the kite past the power zone and get dragged. That was the first time I've been dragged or scudded on the far reaching edge of the window with the kite flying sideways into the wind.

Now I just need to figure out this land board/buggy situation and we'll be set . Already looking at VTTs buggies and MBS boards lol.