Looking to make a ghost frame for my stack. Added 3 more kites this weekend and the full stack of 9 is stressing the front kite terribly.. Chris from HQ says a phantom or ghost frame is the solution.. Looking to make this item out of Aluminum or Carbon Fiber..

Am I starting with a viable shape or do I need to go back to design? Weight, strength and stiffness are all factors here..

I don't think a simple triangle like on the Dynakites would work for me due to the Bridle attachment points being a bit more complex on the Bolero.

I don't know riff, but looks like a cool project. I've never stacked, but is the load transferred down all the connecting lines to the lead kites bridle? Does that cause the front kites spars to buckle inward or towards the center of the kite? Just curious.

My understanding is it literally distorts the frame of the front kite as the full pull of the stack places all of the stress on those bridle points. As I watched a few other experienced kiters flying my stack I could see the distortion of the front kite. It's literally caught in the middle of a tug of war.

riff- cant help you with design but i just picked up some carbon fiber rods from goodwinds.com- GREAT prices in the clearance section- ie i picked up .21" X 29.5" for $1.99- it was $6 if i wanted 30". Good luck

I'm sure someone at http://www.gwtwforum.com/ could offer you sound advice. Try posting there

Quote: Originally posted by riffclown

Looking to make this item out of Aluminum or Carbon Fiber..

Go for pultruded or wrapped carbon rods.

Quote: Originally posted by riffclown

Am I starting with a viable shape or do I need to go back to design? Weight, strength and stiffness are all factors here.. I don't think a simple triangle like on the Dynakites would work for me due to the Bridle attachment points being a bit more complex on the Bolero.

I think the number or spars and hence connectors will make this this a fair noodly design. Trying to figure out how the stresses will work in your frame and my gut reaction is that you are going to see enough flexing along the diagonal axis where it might be problematic.

If you can wait till the weekend, I can try to sketch out a Ghost Frame with appropriate connectors and locking hardware. Have fair amount of phone tag to play tomorrow.

ATB,
Sam

Riff, could you PM me an email address?

I have a PDF for you.

Sorry for the delay.... life

ATB,
Sam

U2U sent..

Thank You!!

Sam, you are awesome!!

Thank you very much for the design.. looks quite doable..

Quote: Originally posted by riffclown

Thank you very much for the design.. looks quite doable..

No problem....

ATB,
Sam

So I did end up making a few tough choices.. Instead of the ghost frame, I decided to reinforce the front kite frame with Carbon Fiber Protruded Tubing (AKA Arrow Shaffts) and doubled the leading edges with 3wrap Revolution spars. I then locked in the bridle. The original bridle is design allows slipping for stunts. Unfortunately, this feature for stunt flying doesn't translate well when the force is multiplied 9-fold. I locked in the bridles by adding an overhand knot right at the junction point..

This stack is a blast to fly and pulls like a truck..