Im new to the forum and am looking to buy a depower kite, ive never owned one but do have an HQ Crossfire 4 meter and a little symphony 2.2 meter kite. So im not totally new to the kiting scene. Im looking to use it for skiing in the snow in a hilly area and the snow may be a little deep. I weigh 150 lbs and ive looked at the HQ Apex 4 and cant decide on a size. I have also considered the HQ Montana 8, but im not sure. Any suggestions would be helpful.


James

Hi James, welcome to the forum. :D


The HQ Apex 4 is a great kite. We have used the for our school kites the last couple of years and they are solid performers. We like to refer to the Apex as a "touring" kite given it's low aspect ratio, gust handling ability and minimal lift. All features that make it a great kite for beginners just learning to fly depowers as well as experienced snow kiters looking to ride in gusty conditions. The Montana 8 is sort of the other end of the spectrum in the HQ depower foil line up. Higher aspect, faster and much more lift, it falls in the "freestyle/freeride" category and is geared towards more experienced riders. Also a great kite in it's own right but requires a little more attention until you become proficient. Either choice is good depending on your needs and goals. The Apex will be friendlier and more forgiving, especially in gusty conditions (mostly due to it's lack of lift as much as anything) while the Montana 8 is a kite that as you progress skill wise, you'll likely never outgrow.

The number one caveat with both of those kites is the reach in the bar throw/depower. Some kiters with shorter reaches are finding that sheeting all the way out (pushing the bar away for to dump power) and actuating the trim (the mechanical system that mechanically positions the kite in a given depower) find it difficult to do without really leaning out.

FrontRangeJeff has started a thread in this section which outlines a simple and good solution to the problem.

I would also propose other kite options as well. The Flysurfer Peak 6m is from a performance and economics POV is a killer choice. It has been one of the most popular kites we sell at hardwaterkiter.com and has proven to be an absolute joy for both beginner and advance riders. We have posted our review in the reviews section of this forum and there are a number of other threads there as well from kiters like yourself who are first time depower riders.

From Ozone, the Access is a great option if you were looking for something in the same flavor as the Apex 4 but a bit more "refined" Ozone has updated the Access with their new safety system and we feel that this has really made an already great little kite even better. They have also used the new safety system on the new Summit and Frenzy series, both of which are more in the category of the Montana 8.

This all said, we need more info on you before we can help you choose a size. We know your weight but we also need to know your location, general wind conditions, general surface conditions (deep snow but dry or soft?), what kind of riding (cruising or aggressive) and very importantly what you have on your feet. (what kind of ski and it's dimensions etc.). For example a narrow ski (>90mm waist) requires more power in general in deep than wider skis or skis with some level of shovel rocker.

Again, welcome to PKF.

+1 for the Flysurfer Peak 6m!

I was also looking at the HQ Apex and also the Ozone Access (but I would have had to go second hand on the Access because of the cost). Guys on here inc Feyd suggested the Peak and I'm really glad they did because it has turned out to be a great choice.

Like you I was looking for my first depower. (I do have a couple of Arcs but not flown them much yet so they don't count!)

I'm on wheels not snow, but the Peak has been great to get me up and running on a landboard, and I've also had a great couple of sessions in a buggy. As it's primarily designed as a snow kite it would no doubt be a good choice.

From a beginner point of view I'd say the pro's are:

Ease of use - it's a doddle to launch and land solo
Speed of setup and packdown - literally minutes to setup and pack down
Cost - not a bad price for a very good quality kite from one of the top manufacturers. And they don't appear to have scrimpted on build quality
Durability - it's a single skin, nothing to burst if you drive it full speed into the ground
Depower range - even in gusty wind pushing the bar out drops the pull from the kite to almost nothing
Size & Weight - the 6m is small compared to a bigger deopwer foil like the Apex, and being single skin it packs down tiny. But still pulls like a bigger foil.
Light wind range - being light as a feather you can fly it in low wind and still get a bit of power, great for learning if you're a newbie

Cons:

I can honestly say I haven't found any yet!

Ok, So it sounds like I would want to stay away from the montana 8 for now and consider the peak or apex 4. So im located in Idaho falls, Idaho. Im on the outskirts of Idaho falls in the sage brush, Lots of open area with hills. When it snows good you can expect above ankle snow. Depending on the temp. which is pretty erratic in Idaho we can go from negative temps where the snow is solid and crusty to non negative temps where the snow is fluffy, Usually the snow will remain fluffy for a few days and then harden and crust, I guess what im saying is you can expect both kinds of snow. Wind conditions in general can be from 15 to 20 mph on a normal day. I generally rule on the side of aggressive for a riding style. I ride a 2005 Rossignol bandit b1 with a 70mm waist and 170cm tall ski, although I might hit up a D.I. to get a pair of rock skis, ive kept my bandits in pretty good shape since I bought them brand new in 2005. I think the peak 6m looks awesome, I dont know if I could go to 9m, I would need some of the cash to afford a cheap but decent harness. Tell me what you think guys.

I'm sure Feyd will have more info on the Peak wind range, but from my (limited!) experience the 6m Peak will be pretty powered at 15-20mph. Flysurfer say the 6m "feels" like a 10m traditional soft kite. 20 knots is the quoted top end for this kite, though I know it will handle more...even with my relatively low level of skills as a pilot I felt pretty comfortable with it out in 15mph but gusting into the 20s.

I doubt you would want to go to the 9m especially if it's your first depower kite and you're seeing 20mph winds, but hey, I'm pretty new to this myself!

Ok, Ive looked around at some shops online and they offer the apex with a free harness, usually a dakine renegade or chameleon waist harness. Thats why im considering the apex because it seems like a pretty good deal. But the Peak 6m does sound interesting and sounds like it performs pretty good. Im on a budget, if there's a complete 180 difference in performance with the Peak 6m maybe it might be worth it to spend the extra money.

@soutjame

I have a nearly new Apex IV in an 8M size for sale in the classifieds section of this forum if you are interested. http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=29465