Hi guys..
I have been flying a prism hypnotist (stunt kite) and wish to try power kiting. I have looked at Prism Tensor 5.0m but I realise this will not give me huge air time as a 95kg male.

I have looked at kitesurfing, landboarding... but paragliding seems much more fun than both of these activities. How can surfing on waves be better than floating 100m above sea level? isn't it better to save the $500 and just buy a $2-3k kite for paragliding or hang gliding

I mean there is almost no point buying a small cheap kite you won't use after you have purchased the really expensive kite? also if you buy too many small kites it would take you much longer to save up to buy a $2000 kite.

Is it better to make small progression through kite sizes or just save up and go straight onto a large expensive kite with depower? paragliding seems much more fun than kitesurfing and I can have a complete aerial view of a landscape and use gopro cameras to get some great footage.

Not many of us here could tell you much about paragliding. Its a different sport. For none of our activities will one kite do it all. Different winds at different times and different user skill levels all come into play. You will fly the small kites just as often if not more than you will fly the large kites. And then you will want something for the gap in between. It is true for each aspect of our sport. buggies, landboarding, kitesurfing, and just flying static.

Paragliding looks cool and if I lived near some place where it happened, I would probably do that. But I live in nice flat Texas and there just isn't a place to go do that kind of stuff, so I stick with the kites.

Keep us posted on what you do.

As for your progression through kites, your next step should be like a 3m kite. Hornet, Beamer, Tensor. Something like that. Learn the control of the kite (much different than the stunt kite) and then you can move up in size or on to depower.

Of course if you go paragliding......

The only similarity between paragliding and Power kiting is the "para" part of it.

Paragliding is done with PARAchutes and we use kites that are PARAfoil. Paragliders are parachutes NOT kites. Even though many of the guys in all of the kiting disciplines work to get air, they are primarily on the ground (or the water). Paragliders can be considered very small manned aircraft. As kiters we are essentially using our kites as sails to power our craft (buggy, land board, snowboard, kite board, boat, butt.. etc)

In essence, the 2 are similar in that the equipment looks the same, but its very different. There IS some cross over at times cuz a lot of guys DO both, but they utilize different skills.

As far as a "progression through kite sizes" I think you might be off the mark a little. We use different kite sizes to suite different wind conditions, i.e. bigger kites is slower windspeed, smaller kites in higher windspeed. The only "progression" there is is that we always recommend that people start with a small foil (2, 3, or sometimes 4 meter) to learn how to control the kite then move up to the bigger sizes.This keeps you from getting seriously spanked by a big kite because you're not 100% sure of how to control it.

If you are interested in Paragliding, I'm sure one of the guys here could recommend another forum, but this is not the right spot.

If you're really interested in Power Kiting, let us know and we will be glad to help direct you in getting started.



EDIT: thanks for correcting me BigE... that is something I did not know, Paragliders are so closely associated with Parachutes that I made an assumption. (see below)

So to correct myself Paragliders are big-@ss wings for flying, NOT KITES

Interesting responses, in terms of the original question: If paragliding / hang gliding is what you want then power kiting is not a starting point for you, it's a completely different sport, the kite is primarily for traction and a side effect is you can also get lift when it's sent straight up.
Paragliders are much bigger in size to what we would use for power because of the amount of lift they have to produce and maintain. A paraglider is not a parachute, they too are different beasts, one is to get you down in a controlled manor the other is to produce more lift and keep you up longer and glide. Obviously there are also parafoils for greater manoeuvrability than a parachute.

There are cross-overs in the whole para whatever and kite design as they all have a common goal: to create a wing to do a job. The NASA re-entry chute design led to the NPW kites and hang gliders. Do plenty of reading up and if possible try various aspects of power kiting and parachuting / paragliding / parascending.
You will get plenty of help and advice to help you on your way :D Good luck!

thanks for the responses.

I am confused on why a distinction needs to be made between power kiting and paragliding when they look identical? I have seen a lot of questions on how to get the best air time in power kiting. A lot of people want to stay in the air as long as possible so I'm not sure why paragliding is overlooked?

I have looked at hang gliding too but to transport a hang glider around (they weigh 100lbs) and the aluminium frame makes it difficult to walk with. Paragliding you seem to get the best of both worlds. Easy to transport and gives the air time 99% of power kiters seem to seek.

I am also trying to make a smart financial distinction. I have about $2000 to spend on a kite and I want something which can give me a lot of air time. The problem is I don't have any experience in power kiting and paragliding seems to cost closer to $4000-$5000 including a harness.

I have looked at Prism Tensor 5.0m.. the reason I am opting for a large size kite is because of my 95kg weight. I have heard a 3.0m would not pull a 90kg male on a buggy or landboard. So to summarise I am looking at kiting with a $2,000 budget, have no experience and weigh 95kg.

Just not sure which kite to go for first...

Kiting does not equal paragliding. They are totally different activities. Kiting can be done more often and in more areas. Paragliding, I assume, needs some sort of hill or powered assistance.

With kiting, you use different size kites relative to the wind speed so the size of kite is based on that and much less on the weight of rider. Not every kiter is interested in jumping at all. Some use their kites strictly for traction. Some like to see how fast they can make their kite powered vehicle go. Some like to jump. Some only like to fly static and be dragged around a bit. Kiting is it's own unique activity with endless ways to enjoy it.

Paragliding might be slightly related, but completely different. Did I mention paragliding is completely different?

Also, as already mentioned, I don't think you would need to start with kiting at all if paragliding is the goal.

We don't get the type of air time you think we do with kites. Winners of " big air " contests only get about 7 seconds of float at best. These are Pro's and they are on water or the side of a mountain. A typical jump only lasts a second or 2.

As others have mentioned there is very little crossover between the 2 sports. Money spent on kites will take money away from your goal. If Paragliding is your goal I suggest you spend ( a big part of ) the money you have on the REQUIRED paragliding training. If you find you are hooked, you will find the money to continue.

From a distance and right(wrong) angle the powerkite and Paraglider look similar in a quick snapshot...not identical. Certainly the use is not identical-in reference to you saying 'they look identical'.

Most powerkiters do not get air or are interested in air for land use. More interest on the water in Kitesurfing....sure...but even there...no where near '99%'.

Take interest in all the sports you mentioned...but they are distinctly separate.

You learn powerkiting-generally- on a 3m kite. This is a step on the learning curve. You do not go out on your first day and start jumping, standing or sitting on some 'vehicle' with wheels...racing down a beach or field...you just learn to fly-with little power(or pull) .

Similarly Paragliders first learn raising the canopy up on flat ground over and over. no flying..till later.

You cannot use one Power kite for all conditions, regarding size you should get. Start with one to learn with. Being on smaller size this will later be kite you use in high(er) winds.

If you don't think a 3m in the right wind can pull you(95kg or bigger)..and fast ..it will. You might be surprised by some land speeds(past and present records) made with 'smaller' kites.

There are a lot of parallels and differences in power kite and para glider design. And a good number of people I know who kite are also para pilots of skydivers. Apparently attracted to anything made of ripstop and Dyneema. Look at Ozone, Flysurfer and Gin for example of crossover.

The key difference to me is the level of consequence in the relative sports. My kite collapses, meh no biggie. Your glider collapses, well that's more of an issue.:o

Funny thing, I've had two people tell me they enjoy kiting more than gliding. Long time paragliders no less.

If you want to be a paraglider pilot, put your hard earned cash into that. Maybe for some kiting is step in their evolution to being a glider pilot but I don't think many start kiting to end paragliding.

paragliding requires a steep investment.. but in the mean time I have been wanting a power kite to keep me occupied.

Basically I am after a thrill seeking kite where I can do the occasional jump and use a landboard too. I live 20 minute drive from the beach and that is where I fly my Prism stunt kite. I have looked at Ozone Octane and Prism Tensor... the reason I wanted a larger kite because I came across as more thrill seeking? I just want a nice kite to keep me entertained that is all. I keep bouncing back and forth between Ozone Octane and Prism Tensor... are these the suggested kites for someone new to power kiting? should I go for a 3m even though I'm 95kg and skeptical to think it could pull me off my feet...?

buy a 3m..and go figure out how to fly it proper, this is the right size kite that will teach you to be a pilot (tethered)
after that its great for high winds in a bug or on a board...and then start spending on other stuff

Ozone Octane 3m, HQ Beamer V and Prism Tensor... I guess I will choose one of these. Should I fly with handles or bars? perhaps when I get a longboard then a bar becomes important for stability reasons.

i ventured in to paragliding thinking that it would be an "addon" to kiting- reality is as many have said it is 2 extremely different sports- Kiting is more involved/active and has a higher adrenaline factor. Paragliding was a very calm experience and enjoyable but if you are looking for a rush it is much easier to find on a kite with the wind making you haul donkey- my flight time with a paraglider was limited (instructor closed his business/ lost his training field) so i only had 12-13 tows up to about 500ft but was able to catch some thermals on a couple of flights that kept me in the air for longer than 5 minutes (glide ratio with no thermals is about 200 ft a minute on a beginner glider wing). and i would relate the thermal riding to class 5 whitewater only you cant see the river or the rocks:D. Determine what you want to do but also if paragliding is the main objective get a kite with handles - that will help on the big wing since you will already understand Brakes- good luck

I'm a living example of Feyd's experience of kiting for some being astronomically more enjoyable then paragliding.

I started first paragliding in 2007 - became a P3 pilot - had lots of 90+minute flights in huge thermals thousands of feet over launch as well as lots of "sled rides" totaling many flight hours and 250+flights - all fine and good but I got pretty bored with it all and tired of bizarre anti social behavior of many of the local lifers. For some it is the cats meow and I get that but just didn't develop to be the case for me.

Personally I never saw the allure of attempting acro maneuvers or "pushing the envelop" however so maybe I was bored because my self preservation internals make me that way....maybe because I know 4 pilots 2 of whom were more experienced then me who died in accidents. Very sad business and even with my own very cautious approach to that sport with a DHV 1/2 wing (very mellow) I almost hucked my reserve on more then one occasion.

After taking up kiting 2+years ago I haven't flown once since. They are completely divergent other then the fact that managing a large paraglider helped with kite skills....otherwise night and day. Pursue whatever gives you that stoke but my two cents....don't base a decision off of what you think is the most exciting or which is cheaper because you can kill yourself doing either or you can have manageable risk doing either...and there is no direct correspondence between $$ invested and enjoyment.

one option I may suggest is to take a tandem pg flight with a GOOD INSTRUCTOR and take a half day snow kiting or kiteboading lesson and see if either "take"

Let your SOULFLY Bro. http://www.pkdkitesusa.com/products/Buster-Soulfly.html

Yeah, I might be partial. :D

Kite jumping is something that you grow into. You don't want to start jumping until you can fly + redirect your kite without looking at it. The kites you are looking at work good as beginner kites + engines and will pull you on a mountain board but will not be good for jumping. They are not high lift kites. It is much better and safer to jump with a larger kite in lower winds than to jump with a smaller kite and the high winds required to do so.

The tried and true method is to start out with about a 3m 4line kite and putting in the time required to set your memory reflexes. It is a big enough size to serve up plenty of power in high winds ( the speed record was won on a 2.7m) and will always have a place in your set of kites. If you want to save money buy QUALITY used kites. Probably the best deal for a good new 1st 4 line is the PKD Buster in 3.3m. You should be able to put together a multi kite quiver and ATB for only 1 of the $2000 you have. That leaves you $1000 to take lessons and or go for a tandem paraglide and see if that is what you are really after.

thanks Bladerunner

I have spoke to Ozone and they have suggested the Ozone Octane 4m as I am interested in ATBing at a later date.

Also I have a ridiculous question. Can I landboard off a cliff if I use an expensive depower kite? I mean depower is what helps you float down safely correct?

It doesn't take a parachute to sky dive. One is required however if you'd like to do it twice.

You presented it as a ridiculous question but it does warrant a response.

Please take a deep breath and read some of the advice given.. Learn everything you can about a kite (3M or so) before jumping off a cliff.. There's a few sides to the story, One is we don't want you to get hurt. The other side is if you do, then everyone will use you as the example of why we can't fly in their location..

Quote:

I mean depower is what helps you float down safely correct?

Experience and lots of it is what helps you float down safely.. Even those with tons of experience can get surprised by a unexpected gust and find themselves far higher than expected or prepared for...
Safety first.. Here's hoping you don't really want to see the inside of your femur

thanks riffclown..
I will have the Octane 4m within 2 weeks and will start from there..

I wish I lived on the Swiss Alps or in New Zealand.
I like watching this video too..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWAhCNbwXTg

I fly airplanes for a living. I'm a P3 Paraglider pilot. And I kite surf. Given the option, I take my kites any day of the week.
I LOVE flying. But that said, it's just like others said... How much risk do you want. Like what front range Jeff said, if you want adrenaline in flying, people start doing Acro. Not for me. Seems like a good way to be Quadriplegic.
But do what your heat tells you to do. Just think it though. Don't chose anything because of some sort of image, but what's truely in you heart.

nice video, but you are a very long way away from doing that. you need to learn to fly a kite before you strap anything to your feet

I agree carlb.. I would also have to polish my skills in snowboarding without a kite too. I live in Australia so snowboarding with a kite is not a realistic option unless I move to New Zealand. We have snow here too but it gets congested with tourists and the snow season is really short here (2 months) - New Zealand would be a far better option and the plane trips are not overly expensive. It is more realistic that I will end up kiteboarding on water assuming paragliding doesn't take over my interest in power kiting. I have a background in surfing and have done a few dangerous risks in the past (nearly drowned twice when surfing all alone in a remote area) but its the adrenalin which is what I seek. A buggy doesn't seem that exciting unless it goes superfast... I will try to upload a videos with a gopro camera once I get good at flying

All I'd say now is take it easy learn how to fly before looking for the adrenalin buzz. The buzz comes once you have learnt the skills and put them to use, I'm 90kg (ish) and started on a 5m Beamer and got well and truly spanked a couple of times because I hadn't done my homework and thought I could take it out in most winds..... and that's why we give advice to hopefully prevent ppl making the same mistakes :D

Until you have held a power kite and can really feel what they can do, you may *think* you want a big expensive kite. But you will get your ass handed to you if you aren't careful.

I took some lessons on water about 10 years ago. Before that I flew a 3m 2 line trainer on a bar for a solid 4 or 5 hours. After the lessons on water I felt I was an OK pilot, and I was able to get up on a board and ride.

Kiting on land is a different story. I had some experience so thought I would be OK with a bigger depower kite, and I got well and truly spanked. A few years on now and I'm still just getting to grips with riding an ATB and have just bought a buggy. I'm progressing SLOWLY but safely, with slightly bigger kites as I get more proficient. But I haven't even considered using my bigger depower kites on the wheels yet.

You may think buggying looks easy and is quite tame, but when whizzing along with your butt a few inches off the ground and you have a kite strapped to you the adrenaline soon kicks in, especially when you're coming to the end of the field and you know that sending the kite too quickly to the zenith could pluck you out of the buggy like a feather!

Same with the ATB...looks easy when you see dudes like carltb doing it, but man, it's tough (and can be painful) at the start.

The wind is unpredictable and deserves your utmost respect at all times. Only a few weeks ago I got another depower kite, a 15m Peter Lynn Synergy, which is not exactly huge and people refer to it as a "gentle giant". I took it out for a test flight in fairly low winds, and got spanked again and ended up with a broken thumb.

DEFINITELY don't even consider riding off a cliff with a depower kite :D

once you fig out what these kites will do im pretty sure you will be quite happy where you live..if you have beach this is a year round sport...i have a thousand days skiing under my belt and havent gone since i got my first kite

watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW59GEcKL-M

Great video sadsack.

I perfect example what happens 90% of the time when people with no developed skills try to jump with the complete wrong kite.

Funny, as I was watching I was saying to myself " it's amazing these guys haven't hurt themselves". Then " IT " happened.

This is what will happen to you as well if you try to jump with that 4m Octane you have coming 911. It will be a very good kite for learning the ropes, scudding down the beach and getting going on an ATB or buggy but NOT for learning to jump!

A 3m would have allowed you to fly in stronger winds. Be careful with the 4m as a starter. It is too big for real strong winds. Pack it up and live to fly another day.

P.S. Go to www.coastalwindsports.com and check out the tutorials. It is packed with all the info you need to get going.

I will be flying on sand too which is more forgiving than solid ground / grass. The reason I'm opting for a 4m is simply due it being able to catch more wind and I'm also considerably heavier than most people flying kites. Light winds are more common than strong / extreme winds so it will give me more opportunity to fly. I do not want to have to wait weeks at a time just to get an opportunity to fly due to unsuitable conditions. The Ozone rep told me be careful when the wind goes above 20 knots.. majority of the time the wind range is 5-15 knots (6 miles - 16 miles). I have not ordered yet but may reconsider a 3m... also everytime I buy a kite I do not want to move up by 1m increments. I would rather buy considerably bigger rather than marginally bigger otherwise I will have to keep buying more kites to get the desired effect I am after.

When they start to show accident film links it usually means folks on here may be getting a little concerned by your responses....

But this is a quick and better one to show if someone wants to caution you with a film :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeztcqfpKog



Sand can be quite hard and even if it's the loose kind....so..?

It's not just a fall from any height that can hurt you. Being yanked and pulled down.... dragged sideway.....(as an example: running with kite's pull instead of 'scudding' might do both of these)..... and more mishaps. In such cases no surface will protect you...unless it's water.. and even then...

Note: neither film shows use of a helmet by flyer.

Don't worry, you don't know it yet, but you'll be buying plenty of kites if you get hooked. By the way, for what it's worth, a 3 meter is always easier to unload than a 4 meter, at least around here.