So i always like tinkering around with ideas and bouncing off other ideas to. Ever since fifth line technology happened there has not seemed to be many advances in kiting. the only other newish things i have seen are the flysurfer peak wich in my opinion is just a high tech npw, and closed cell foils but that has been around for a good while

I think the Peak is just the tip of the single skin iceberg. No one that is reviewing them EVER flies an NPW. Look for other mfrs to get in on that market.

Also the new Ozone de power race kites are pushing the boundaries enough for racers that don't fly them, crying that the chrono and R1 are an unfair advantage. That's advancement and it will spurn other mfrs to chase the design direction.

Quote:

No one that is reviewing them EVER flies an NPW

Not so fast, I fly both and like both, even at the same time. :puzzled: and they are both great for the same and different reasons.

The Peak and the new generation of this type just a high tech NPW, single skin, immediate power, compact and that is where the similarities end, they fly like a foil and have the window of one. IMHO once more hybrids of this design appear it will change the game.
Whilst I can't compare an NPW to a Peak I've had one of my builds along side a Peak. Once Robinsonpr is back in action I'm sure we'll be able to do a test :D

I'd like a fixed bridle Peak on handles. 2, 3, 4, 5 meter sizes.

Well, there's been many details for improvement in recent years:
- push away release as a standard
- single inflation point as a standard
- large inflation valve
- split strut (kinda pain for strut camera mount)
- bridles on trailing edge (cronix/boost)
- no pulleys (fewer pulleys) on wing
- low friction rings for pulleys
- 2:1 bars are history
- clam cleat / above the bar
- C kites going "bridles" (Fuel 2015)
- variable length bars
- leading edge "ribs"
- above the bar front lines swivel (with flag line in the center)
- one click harness (Mystic)
- lighter canopy fabric

BigE....won't be long! Once I get a decent knee brace I'll be ready to roll!!

Craig Hansen and his friend used nearly all single skin designs from Michael Dekker on the recent Mongolia trip and were very enthusiastic about them. They seemed to be be somewhere between an NPW and a Peak in design. Peter Lynn said in a recent newsletter that it was all 'hush hush' and that they would be out on the market soon. Although as I've come to appreciate, 'Soon' is a relative term. ie: The star in the middle of the Eta Carina nebula is going to go supernova 'soon'. :D

This is an intresting dicussion with equally interesting perspectives. Developments in kites such qs a 5th line safety are obvious and visable. What about advances in design? Take for example the Peter Lynn Charger 1 and Phantom 2. They were leaps forward in Arc design. Maybe too much? How about the 2014 Ozone Accesuo That kite has seen a ton of redesign and advancement over the last couple of years not to mention the addition of the Re-ride system on Ozones for 2015. Which in my opinion is the sweetest safety on the market. The Frenzy was completely redesigned for 2015 as well. As far as kites like the Chrono, there have been kites like this in production for some time but until larger manufacturers like Ozone and now Flysurfer and North bringing similar kites to market nobody outside the circles knew much about them. And the people that whine the most about these kites beating them may have a legit gripe. Especially if they were some poor bastard on an LEI. You don't have to be an expert pilot to get some benefit from a kite like the Chrono but an expert can do wonders with that kite. The new R1 and Sonic are variations on the theme. But keep in mind that the F-arc has many similar traits and performance. And the kite has been around for over a decade. The Matrixx 2. Completely new for 2015. Everything the MA1 was and then some. Of course these are all examples of depower. Since there is a strong following for fixed bridles here my question to those who fly them would be how have the advanced lately. Obviously not much on the Ozone front but others?

Wow. I'm a passive kiter. I still think my Ozone Flows are the cats meow :dunno:

Quote: Originally posted by grigorib

Well, there's been many details for improvement in recent years: - push away release as a standard - single inflation point as a standard - large inflation valve - split strut (kinda pain for strut camera mount) - bridles on trailing edge (cronix/boost) - no pulleys (fewer pulleys) on wing - low friction rings for pulleys - 2:1 bars are history - clam cleat / above the bar - C kites going "bridles" (Fuel 2015) - variable length bars - leading edge "ribs" - above the bar front lines swivel (with flag line in the center) - one click harness (Mystic) - lighter canopy fabric

This is a good list.

I can add strut less to the LEI list.

Cross bracing to accommodate fewer bridles was another big leap in FB.

VPS on the arcs.

What ever happened to that FB kite ( I think Mumba? ) that had the flared out wingtips? I thought that innovation had merit ?

Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob

I think the Peak is just the tip of the single skin iceberg. No one that is reviewing them EVER flies an NPW. Look for other mfrs to get in on that market. Also the new Ozone de power race kites are pushing the boundaries enough for racers that don't fly them, crying that the chrono and R1 are an unfair advantage. That's advancement and it will spurn other mfrs to chase the design direction.

agree.


lots of material and process advancement is where "new stuff" will arrive.

imagine a PEAK that would not sink...

lines with twice load with half size and weight...

bars and lines MORE abrasion resistant

design will go toward minimal material, wind and scale are already fixed elements

think of a formula race foil that was a laser welded plastic bag

foil , material and design, without commerical limits would be wild and totally impractical....but something will make it to market within that formula

With respect to new kite technology, I'd like know more about how paragliding design know-how is having an impact on kites and vice versa. Especially since there are a number of manufactures that make both paragliders and kites.

In HQ's 2015 catalogue/flyer they mention that the Beamer VI incorporates "paragliding design know-how for greater performance". I have no idea what this really means (could be clever marketing).

Quote:

Since there is a strong following for fixed bridles here my question to those who fly them would be how have the advanced lately. Obviously not much on the Ozone front but others?

I Don't know that there has been any dramatic advancement in FB kites lately....?

I think Racing FB's have attempted to be designed more stable for punchy winds..to some degree of success..and that has been one focus in the FB world.

Safety features like 'aftermarket' release systems have been created outside of kite manufacturers from folks creating devices or borrowing existing devices as simple as panic snaps(horse or dog world) to Wichard (marine)releases to even more expensive Auto Releases..........But few fixed bridal flyers pilot with safety releases.

Stability in shape(aspects, curves, i.e., wing tip, leading edge, and other general canopy perimeter shaping) ... # of cells...bridaling......have been advanced or tweaked a while back.

Low, Moderate, and high aspect SHAPES in FB will likely remain and have their places for stability, upwind ability, and power.


You'll still need more kites in a FB quiver than a depower quiver.

I can see FB going a bit like the Peak advancement to SINGLE SKINs as a similar dramatic advancement. If it can work well in the depower arena , why not the FB world?
The single skin Born NPW and any other commercial NPW makers MAY be limited by not offering the same aspect range in the FOIL FB arena....especially a racing high aspect shape- as I see it.

Some individual kite makers have experimented with high aspect perhaps (bigE's avatar shows one of this design, I believe)....But if a commercial kite maker comes out with a single skin FB race kite that flew similar to a PL Vapor or such.....well... you would have something dramatically new IF SUCCESSfUL-in the FB arena.

Is any dramatic advancement needed in FB kiting? What improvements might one be looking for?

The Peak kite may be the most dramatic advance( of the Depower world and all of kiting in general) for it's quick set up and take down, its' lightness and compactness or adventure 'backcountry' kiting packabilty..... combined with it's high performance and wide wind range.

Related to the above: If I was backcountry skiing 5 miles into a lake that I wanted to kite on...what would I stuff in my backpack for kites that would cover a wide wind range for unknown winds......limited by amount of pack space and weight I want to carry? A Peak would be the ticket...or some new yet undiscovered FB single skin design-both giving you high performance as well as portability....and that you may even bring two sizes for fuller wind range coverage.

Para glider trickle down. Leading edge battens as found in Gin, Flysurfer and Ozones. And internal bracing to reduce bridles and parasitic drag. Single skin technology as well. Ozone has been making single skin gliders for some time. Which surprises me that they haven't brought a single skin to market. My understanding is the difficulty of scaling it down to kite use. Maybe in time.

Is it just the difficulty or a commercial decision? I sometimes wonder if a manufacturer can not protect a design fully then there is a risk in going in to production as they may not re-coup the design and setting up for production costs. There are so many places just waiting to create cheap copies, I think that holds true technological advances from reaching us, I'm sure they are around just all kept under a shroud of secrecy.

Quote: Originally posted by bigE123

I sometimes wonder if a manufacturer can not protect a design fully ...

I have nothing to do with kites but it happens all the time ...

Quote: Originally posted by PHREERIDER

... laser welded plastic bag ...

Why not use radio frequency sewing machines (27 MHz) which heats the material starting at the overlap as opposed to the outside?
There are roller versions unlike the more common line versions ...

absolutely AudereEng!

but geek muscle gonna look for job security and create new process,,,new material, wavelength sensitive polymerization instead of thermal.

hydrophobic polymer , hyperbouyant with kevlar like tolerances.

aeropolymer as tough as kevlar , ultra thin neoprene strong enough to bag tons of auto salvage or donning by average super hero on a budget.


but thats just the ultra geek in me.