Ok. I want one. They are cheap and heck, if it doesn't work then at least I have a toy or spare cloth for my real foils.
So which one should I get purely for water kite surfing and ideally with boost or jump potential? Aurora or Blaze and in what size? I weigh 83-85kg. 12mt or 15mt to ride is anything from 12 to 25knots?
Cheers

12m WOULD work,

but SHOULD you be on the water with a PANSH? caution advised

Blaze II is an open cell and will not work.

I suggest you buy a used Flysurfer . WAYyyyyy better bang for buck.

Nothing in the Pansh line will hold a candle to your Speed III ?
+ it sounds like you have LEI's ? Why throw the money away?

Pansh kites don't re-sell very well.

No. Don't.

Yep. The only Pansh kite I would consider buying would be some small FB. And the Auroras don't really resell at all, for a reason.

The only Pansh kite I have heard the word " Boost " with is the Ace. The Ace has boost but ....

If I was throwing money at Pansh I am very curious about how the 10.5m Adam performs? It is a closed cell 4 line fixed bridle " Trainer Kite " :smug: . I think it will be a Monster ! It will work on water with closed cell and all? Buying this kite will make you appreciate that you already found a great foil in the Speed III !

Blade seems right....and yes the cloth is water proof.....for its depower twin is Genesis, try the biggest size or just bigger than 12m....I'm also interested on it.....but I can't board....so just Jetskiing for summer, and waiting for winter to come again.....Don't forget to post the whole story with pictures or vids when you buy one!.....I enjoy browsing everybody's stories.

I have a 15m Aurora. It's very possible I don't have it tuned the way it should be. If weather is OK tomorrow and wind good enough I might break it out and see what I can do with it.

Like UnknownAX stated above, it doesn't seem to have a good resale on them.

Thanks for the replies guys. I just had an offer for a Chrono under $1500 kite only. Is that a good deal? Yeah I think Pansh might be a risk that will end up frustrating me no end on water. What are they like for landboarding though? Is the depower system good or bad at best? It sounds like if I am considering a Proper land kite it should be a flysurfer, HQ or Ozone. Sorry but I am not a fan of P.Lynn but then again I've neer tried one. I just find them too arc shaped. I prefer the flatter higher aspect look.

The Arcs are super stable because of their shape. I wouldn't count them out.

No, it's not worth it for what you getting and not getting, compared to what you can get for less.

Lofty,

As you can see from the "advice" you received that Pansh is not well liked on this forum. Now having said that, they are making some nice kites these days. You seem to have experience on the water, so you know what you are getting into.

As for Bladerunner saying that the Blaze II wouldn't work on the water, BS, any kite will work on the water, just don't crash it for obvious reasons!

Are there better kites than Pansh out there, of course, but not for the same money.

I enjoy mine, and they do the same thing that the other more expensive brands do, they put a smile on your face, and that's what it's all about!

If you have any questions regarding Pansh kites just PM and I will help you out.

Regards,
Blake

Blake,
Thanks and it sounds promising, but are you one of their sales reps?

What is the bar and safety like compared say to older foils like a Speed or a Psycho? Have you actually kite surfed a Pansh? If so, which one? I am only interested if it WORKS, as in had to be closed cell, easy relaunch and has good boost. If Pansh can't do that then thread is closed as far as I am concerned.

Good to see your input Blake. I have great respect for your kite knowledge.

I don't think of myself as a Pansh hater. I think Pansh makes a reasonable kites at a reasonable price and have been known to suggest the product to people depending on their situation. I think I am more of a Pansh realist.

loftywinds is already flying Speed 3 kites and LEI. It is hard for me to suggest that she will be able to put any Pansh kite side by side with her Speed and say the build quality is equal. Similar when the kite is in the air and offering her the boost she requested. Not to mention the bar + lines etc..

I try not to BS and did not mean to BS about the Blaze II. Just to be clear. The Blaze that Lofty asks about is a fixed bridle. I took it for granted she was referring to the Blaze II. Both are open cell. If you crash them on water they turn into a sea anchor. It takes time to self rescue and I cant recommend doing it while stuck to a sea anchor. The experience scared me and left me with a tangled mess when I stupidly water logged my Psycho II . No BS. Open cell work fine above water but don't work ON water!. Playing with my open cell 3m trainer in the shallows was OK.

I have been trying to find feed back on the new large Adam's and would LOVE to hear what you think about them Blake.

I suggested right when it came out that if they came out with larger sized ones they had huge low wind potential. Without ever seeing one I am expecting them to be low wind winners. That Pansh my have stumbled on to a great water capable, low wind weapon and somehow labeled it a " trainer kite " ? Have you had a chance to demo a big Adam?

Guys,

First thing first, I'm not on Panshes payroll at all, and I don't sell them. I test kites for them when they ask me to, and make recommendations for improvements.

Lofty, I kited on the water with my trusty old 12m Blaze II down in Hatteras (shallow waters) a few years ago. Worked fine, and was actually quite fun!

Like Runner said, everything is fine until you get water in an open cell foil, then it's game over, and time for the walk of shame, or swim!

Runner, no I have never tried an Adam, of any size, so can't help you at all.

Rose from Pansh just sent me a new 15m closed cell prototype to try out, and I will be trying this kite out on the water very soon.

Lofty, I still say a larger Aurora would work for you.....

Blake

off topic but check out the ace II. Damn cool looking IMO

http://www.panshkite.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&...

Lofty,
For water you should really be looking at LEI kites and not any kind of foil. CLOSED CELL foils can be used on water but you've got a limited window of relaunch time.
I WOULD NOT WATER KITEBOARD WITH ANY KITE FROM PANSH. I actually bought some of my first power kites from pansh and they do have some good models. However, their de-power models seem to be fatally flawed and require tuning out of the bag to fly properly. For kitesurfing etc. you want to be using a de-power kite. Flying a fixed bridal with handles is not going to work very well in this situation.

The Chrono is an excellent kite, however it is a race/ big boost kite and is not meant for beginners. Your success rate of water relaunch will be very low with that kite and you will end up swimming and possibly loosing or damaging your equipment.

I think that understanding the terms and the kind of kites they relate to first will be very helpful.

FOILS - OPEN OR CLOSED CELL

DEPOWER/FIXED BRIDAL: A FIXED BRIDAL kite is one in which the angle of attack or the shape of the wing in regards to lift is fixed. These are generally flown on handles and are popular with buggiers. DEPOWER: A kite where the angle of attack can be adjusted by adjusting the bar and trim controls. These kites are popular with various types of kiteboarders. Ex. snowbarding/landboarding/kitesurfing. The power is more controllable, but achieve somewhat less power per meter in all conditions. Can be flown with one hand ( hence the boarding)

OPEN CELL: A parafoil wing with open cells. Looks a bit like a paraglider. These kites and popular for bugging and snowkiting. They excel in low wind and variable conditions. The however are not suitable for water in any sense. They will immediately sink. These come in both fixed bridal and depower forms. Good brands = Peter Lynn, flexifoil, HQ, Ozone etc.etc.

CLOSED CELL: A foil kite with the cells stitched closed to allow flotation on water. These kites take some of the advantages of foils and make them usable on water. Perfectly serviceable in water situations except the relaunch may be more difficult in some respects. The Chrono is a good example of an advanced closed cell foil. Other good examples might be a Flysurfer Speed or HQ Matrixx. There are some Peter Lynn twin skins that also fall into this category which are less suitable for water as they have spars. Brands : FLysurfer, HQ, peter lynn, Ozone.

LEI - Leading Edge Inflatable. These are kites with inflatable bladders or tubes in them. They are purpose built for kite surfing. The likelihood of one of these kites sinking on you is very low and that can be a great asset if you get yourself in a sticky situation. You will find the used kite market for these kites to be more expansive than that of the foil market as kitesurfing is more popular than land kiting. These kites can also be used easily on snow or grass, but the relaunch will be somewhat more difficult than in the water. Brands : North, SLingshot, Naish, Air Rush, Cabrinah, Liquid Force, Switch, Ozone

well explained...individual kiting skills determines the most appropriate type to use

Blake,

I am aware that you aren't officially part of Pansh. If I am correct, your input is important to Pansh. Rosie seems to have me on here junk mail list or something ?

I cant seem to find any reviews on the new 8.5 and 10.5 Adam. I can't think of better person to Demo them and give feedback?
I have a strong feeling that you have flown Quadrafoil kitesurfer XXL and XXXL ? I think Pansh just may have come out with an improved XXXL ? I am sure the bridle is better and think the material is good.

It would be good for Pansh to have some reviews on the kite online and I would have great respect for a review from you. What are the odds you can demo them ?

I only think it's too bad that these large Adam's are coming out when the low wind market is expanding to single skin and the newer race foils.

@Bladerunner,
I have flown the 4.5 and 5.5 adam. They are very good kites indeed. That being said, I don't underdstand their purpose in some respects because you could never actually kitesurf with one. Pansh did build a depower of the same design called the Genesis, however it like all other Pansh depower models does not fly out of the box.

Why couldn't you kitesurf with an adam? I don't kitesurf but have seen video of speleopower using his quadrifoils on handles

@Ssayre,
The short answer is that you can but its a pain in the ass. You need a free hand to be able to put your board on and even more crucially body drag. I have no idea how you' be able to body drag upwind while steering a kite with both hands. So you could probably do unidirectional runs using handles, but if you stopped or crashed you'd be totally hosed.

I think the smaller Adam's were designed as kitesurf trainers. Going after the HQ Hydra market. I can't explain how the 8.5 and 10.5m are also called " trainer kites " but that's Pansh for you.

I have heard plenty of good reports on how the smaller Adam's handle. I am very curious how that translates in the larger kites. The low aspect and fat shape may or may not make for real power houses ?

I have no 1st hand experience but imagine I would upwind body drag hooked in and tweeking my steering one handed ? Similar when getting the board on. I don't imagine it to be easy but do-able. Or you could fly like Dirtslide. With the strop in your teeth!

What I am expecting is that once inflated the 8.5 and 10.5 should fly very early / easy? Not so much the water capability but the low wind potential is where I see the closed cells coming into play.

Guys,

We are all over the place with this thread....LOL!

Pansh makes some good kites, whether they are suitable for what YOU want to do with it, is totally up to YOU and your kiting skills/ability. We can go back and forth on this subject forever and still not come up with an answer that suits every kiter out there. We are all different, leave it at that.

When someone asks a question on this or any other forum, they are going to get varied input from all different level of kiters, then it is up to the original poster to sift through all of this "input' and see how he feels about it. All of us "experts" have our own special areas that we feel passionate about when it comes to kiting and the equipment that we use, but I learned many years ago not to "push" my equipment preferences onto others. Now having said that, I'm the first guy at the beach to offer up my kites and boards for others to try out. I just let them make their own decisions about the experience, good or bad.


Now....about that Board Riding Maui CLOUD......

Regards,
Blake

All I know, is once you finally figure what gear works for you and figure out what activities your going to be doing, your gear planning becomes much easier and simplified. With path defined, it all falls into place

ANYTHING will work with right skill set, not just knowledge of, but understanding of application.

I'll be bringing my Aurora 19 along on my next water kiting trip and will report here my thoughts. On land in light winds in comparison, the Speed 1 17 SA and Chrono 18 will fly in 1 knot less wind. Chrono turns best. Aurora 19 has strong low end grunt 4 kts plus. On water at my weight, 60kg I top out at 10 kts on these size kites. On snow Aurora 19 gets you moving at 3 knots. In my experience used Flysurfer bridles may have been adjusted by the previous owner and not fly properly until properly tuned again, wheras there are no adjustments to be made on the Pansh Auroras or Ozone Chronos.

I agree with Phreerider, but so far my thoughts are that when it comes to Pansh, they have nothing to offer what can't be bought on the second hand market for the same amount of money with a higher quality of end product.
In my humble opinion Pansh is cheap for a reason and can ruin experiances for new kiters thinking a cheap machine has the same quality end product as the brands who spend gazillion years of developing kites.
It flies, but hey...second hand market might turn out way better.

Ooh. This is an easy one.

None.

By the way, that Chrono is notoriously overpriced. Please just go buy an LEI. You can pick up a wicked good, last year's model Rally, Lithium, Envy or another stable, inflatable kite for around $500-$800. Go to ikitesurf.com or nwkite classifieds. Then if the wind dies (which it does often around here), you can still float your way in vs. your kite sinking. Trust me... The closed cell foils sink after about 30 minutes of sitting in the water. Well, they either sink or turn into a sea anchor. Either way, your life sucks for a long time after that, since you either have to drag it to shore or cut it loose.