I had a great buggy session yesterday at a sports complex with artificial turf. This is the kind of turf that looks like very short cut (green) grass with a zillion little specks of rubber in it, presumably from old tires.

Yesterday was a hot, dry day. I live in the mountains in Utah so our humidity is very low.

As I was wrapping up my kite (in this case a green and black Flysurfer 12M Peak2) and found to my dismay that it was coated with an amazing amount of what I will call "turf lint" (see photo).

Anybody experienced a similar event? I'm thinking this is something along the lines of "static cling". I'm hopeful that it will shake itself loose the next time I fly it on more natural surfaces.

ARG!!! :dunno:

Hey Steve, that's a new one for me, turf lint! But it sounds and looks like exactly what you think, static cling. You could try storing the kite with a couple of dryer fabric sheets in the bag, it might help. It might help more if you wipe the kite down with them, but I'd test a small area first to make sure there is no chemical transfer staining. I used dryer sheets when I had my HQ Neo,(closed cell depower foil)to help get the "socks" (or tubes that let the air in to the kite) stay open, static cling was keeping them closed.

Hey Steve, I have the same problem with real grass; the dead and dried clippings at least... Static cling for sure... You can probably get it off with a blower or a compressor ... I've blown off a kite with my compressor before.

most if not every new kite will have static cling to some degree. untill the fabric coating which is also called sizing begins to break down it will keep on hanging on to stuff. grass, dust, sand, and bugs amongst other thing. Ivanpah and Alvord dust is the worst as it gets in places you cant access.
the dryer sheet works quite well along with a light washing of the kite. not a popular way to combat the static, washing, but it works.
I hate the stuff that sticks to the inside of the kite. cant see it untill the kite is overhead between me and the sun.

Google "tire crrumb"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/23/turf-safety-epa_n_4...

ATB,
Sam

That's the beauty of a single skin kite, no dirt or debris to get inside:D

Who cares about turf lint. I want to see video of you riding Astro Turf! As far as I can remember, this is a first!
What's it like? Ultra low rolling resistance? I bet powerslides and scudding are out of the question? Sounds dangerous but very cool.

@Redsky - a first? Wow! Not so sure this is the old "Astroturf" from the 1980; more of the modern variety of artificial turf with all the crumbled up rubber. I actually do have some video footage from a helmet GoPro but I want to edit it first so please stay tuned! Scudding would be an absolute non-event (though the ever graceful scud-fail-to-Superman would certainly work). I rode it with my PL Folding buggy (which can be yours by the way for the everyday low price of $450 + S/H) with PL's Extra Wide Wheels. Fishtailing/powersliding was about the same or maybe even a bit more pronounced than natural grass on a soccer field. Yes, very low resistance so it was very easy to get going too fast for such a small space. I had to sheet out quite a bit with my 12M Peak2.

the static charge will discharge in saturated conditions , i have been shocked a few times, cracks right off the toes. the first time was on V16 , hopping over to my board bare foot on the beach....felt like my toes where cracking really loud, with an extra pinch! hello nitrogen!

then a few this on the water then the crack is louder and have felt some through my hands, a friend has felt it in there hands as well.

here the storms pop up pretty quick just at the mainland edge and some can be forming directly above. its come on quick sometimes, what was super blue sky , goes super heated then blows up huge clouds right over you.

redefining super lit!

Thanks everyone for the good suggestions. The air is very, very dry here which just doesn't help things. I did fly to the kite today in a real grass field and a lot of the "turf lint" shook itself off. Too bad really, because the buggying was pretty good on the artificial stuff. All my back and forth runs left all sorts of "tire tracks" where the black rubber crumbles came up to the surface; the grounds keepers are probably wondering, what the %$@!? :evil:

Steve, Have you tried the 4.5m Uniq in the buggy yet?... Still curious how he handles the light air.

Spencer - we share the same curiosity. I've only flown the Uniq once in highly variable wind conditions (long stretches of near zero wind followed by 2-3 minutes of "gusts" followed by stillness again). Hard to pass much judgement. First impressions as a possible buggy engine were only so-so based on my feel from this limited static flying session. Good pull through the center of the wind window by as others have noted elsewhere I too felt the window was small for this kite and the pull seemed to drop off quite a bit once out of the center of the window. Again, very inconsistent winds so I'm certainly not proclaiming anything here. I've purposely held off on writing anything in the various Uniq threads until I give it a proper try (or proper burial). I did try it seated in my folding buggy for literally about five minutes on artificial turf just from the handles in my hands (no strop/harness). Winds were funky but I did get rolling. I'm going to say that it likely won't have great upwind capability.

I've got three NS3's on route (2.5, 4.0, and 8.5) that I know you are big fan of for buggy engines. DHL's update statement has sat firmly on "The shipment will be transported to the destination country and, from there, handed over to the delivery organization" since 6/19 but I figure I'll get them by and by. The hope here was that my FB quiver for buggying would become NS3's in the sizes just mentioned filled in with the Uniq 4.5M, calculating PLs stated 40-60% greater pull per square meter). If I end up not wanting to use the Uniq 4.5 as my gap filler between NS3s 4.0 and 8.5 then I'll have to figure out what to do there.

I gotta tell you though, my go to kite for my last 10 buggy sessions or so has been my 12M Peak2. It has an insane range of DP so I'm able to sheet out and fly it high during gusts. I run it with the cleat adjuster all the way out giving me the greatest power up effect. There is so much range in the DP that I can do this and still sheet the kite out with max bar push away when I need to. It starts to sputter and flap when I do that with a big decrease in power. Combine that with upwind buggy steering and I can really get my speed checked back for a turn. I tell you, coming out of that turn and dropping the kite down into the power zone combined with a power up by pulling in the bar gives you one heck of a 0-60 rush! Plenty of time to check the speed again at the other end of the field to do it all over again.

I've got a PL Lynx 7M that I haven't even flown from the buggy yet, and I'm thinking that will be my gap fill if the Uniq doesn't cut it.

OK, I'm rambling.... :o

I really like the Nasa's in the buggy, though I haven't had a successful session on my home field due to crappy wind. If I had the money, I'd invest in a Peak myself, but I'm still wary of its lifting capability. If the Uniq is not suitable to fill your gap, the 5.5m NS3 is super for sure... I've been most successful in the bug with that one; Saint Simons Island, GA with 12-14mph dead onshore winds was friggin' sweeeeeeet!!! The 7m is most used lately here at home, but only one sesh in the bug and awful wind... pre-rainstorm gusts got me moving fast but died once the rain started.

Here's a tip on DHL shipping... it has obviously landed in the states but is either stuck in customs or en route on USPS trucks. If you call DHL (look up their 1-800 number online) and give them the DHL tracking number, they can give you the current USPS tracking number and you can track it from there... odds are though that once you go to that trouble, it will show up at your door the next day. My last NS3 showed up right at the 3 week mark.

Let us know how it goes with the Uniq!!!

Spencer - I've read about your injuries and long recovery and respect your apprehension to go DP with a P2 or any other kite for that matter. I was a downhill ski racer through college and have shared your pain on numerous occasions with the surgical scars to show for it.

The P2 does have lift though not as much as my PL Lynxs. Last week I came in hot and late into a buggy turn with my 12M P2 up high in a wind gust with the bar pulled in. Whoosh, I scored my first vertically ascending OBE. I weigh a tad over 200 lbs and I'd say I was about 2-3 feet above my buggy. I landed without incident (almost on my feet). I likened it to a fighter jet pilot hitting the EJECT button. Now, this "VOBE" was certainly pilot error, but the point is it can and did happen, so there you go. :o

Thanks for the DHL/USPS tips; greatly appreciated.

Yeah, I've had that exact thing happen to me on multiple occasions... VOBE... I like that. That is actually EXACTLY what happened with my injury, only rather that 2-3 feet up, I went about 10-15 feet up. I weigh the same and was flying a 5.5m Reactor II which is marketed as "low lift" but it just got hit just right and then I was broken... I think if I ever were to get a Peak, it would be a 9m Peak 1, I hear they are lower lift than the P2's... but that is really not all that likely, at least not anytime soon. My next purchase will hopefully be a 10m NS3.

Spencer - I'm glad you liked my coining of a VOBE! :D

A 10-15 ft VOBE, holy schnikes! http://youtu.be/ig4jbcU9db0

That's a VOBECB (Vertical Out of Buggy Experience with a Code Brown)! :o

I've heard the same about lift with P1 v P2. You do seem to have a love affair with your NS3s. I dig that about you, and it was largely your comments in various threads that led me down that path. Here's to happy (and distinctly terra firma) buggying! :evil:

I'm shocked to hear that you can ride on turf. It's crazy expensive to install that on a field. My town / sports managers would blow a gasket if they saw that. Kids aren't allowed to bring colored drinks onto the fields and parents can't set up lawn chairs on it while watching the games. You are either really fortunate to be allowed or riding on borrowed time until caught. Not a criticism of your actions. Just a comment.

Quote: Originally posted by B-Roc

I'm shocked to hear that you can ride on turf. It's crazy expensive to install that on a field. My town / sports managers would blow a gasket if they saw that. Kids aren't allowed to bring colored drinks onto the fields and parents can't set up lawn chairs on it while watching the games. You are either really fortunate to be allowed or riding on borrowed time until caught. Not a criticism of your actions. Just a comment.

I was thinking the same thing even though I doubt it hurts it any. I'd love to try it out.

B-Roc - I suspect you are right. Since doing this (and I only did it once) I thought I'd not repeat the act again. The borrowed time comment was likely spot on. What I don't want to happen (for me or anybody else) is to do something seen as so agregeous as to make it a topic of conversation on some committee leading them to take some sort of official affirmative action at the town or county level essentially banning buggying or the like.

For that reason I am trying to play this out in some graceful manner. This is such a bugger of a problem because I'm sure if I went to the parks and recreation department and asked for permission that I would be turned down. Not saying that the "Ask for forgiveness, not permission" strategy is wise and prudent, but therein lies the rub.

I just purchased a great used Bigfoot+ buggy with the thought of moving to "off road" buggying. I've eyed several promising places around town...

I've never asked permission at public parks or schools I use, but I just make sure I'm out of the way of the other people there. Most, if not all of our turf type fields are fenced off which to me implies no kite kite buggies. It has surprised me that 2 large private soccer complexes have given me permission to use their fields when not in use. The permission was given by the grounds keepers / board member at each one so it was not something voted on and I'm sure they could change their mind anytime. These are soccer complexes in the suburbs outside the main city. I've noticed the municipal maintained soccer complexes within Indianapolis have a list of rules a mile long. I tend to stay away from those. I think I get away with a lot in my area because they find it strangely amusing and nobody else does it so they tolerate me.

Ssayre - that's a good story and I hope it plays that way for me locally too. The one park system I've started to use now was built with town-based bonds that were voted on in our local election. Pretty simple signage stating to the effect that these fields are paid for and supported by town funds and are for the use of town members for recreation. The only negative aspect of the signage at all regards a prohibition for golf. These fields tend to be either completely full with tournaments of one sort of the other or largely deserted and I clearly have been going during the deserted times. If confronted (I suppose I should say "when confronted") I plan to attempt an argument along the lines of being a tax paying town resident attempting to recreat on a field expressly built for that purpose. My new Bigfoot tires to date have left no discernible trace even with power sliding so I feel I might at least have an argument. Yes, I know I'm bringing logic into the situation. Please wish me luck as I wish you continued success as well. Cool that you have those large soccer facilities; they sound great!

Steve, another suggestion I have if you ever want to approach someone about kiting in a particular spot is start by telling them you have a hobby of flying large maneuverable kites and leave it at that. If I get the go ahead, then I fly a few times static as kind of a warm up period. Then I'll introduce the buggy once they realize I'm not a threat and start to understand what I'm doing. Going in cold and trying to explain large kites pulling a buggy is information overload but if I keep it at just kites at first (something everyone can relate to) it seems to be easier for people to digest. Sometimes there's a lot of strategery that goes into certain spots

Ssayre - most excellent strategery! I will definitely try that. Thanks!!!

Redsky - you asked for video of my artificial turf session. Here you go!

This is my first ever self-produced video so it is pretty crude in its production. I have a HUGE amount to learn from many of you accomplished videographers.

https://youtu.be/-O2eFLgGVdI

One thing to pick out of this video is the tire tracks back and forth across the field. Riding did zero damage to the field, but rolling over the surface make the little rubber flecks collect on the surface. Probably ticked off the grounds keepers. This was a one time shot; I don't plan to repeat.

Very cool Steve That looks like it's nice and smooth.

Your video is just as good as anything I ever make using the buggy and I've been at it awhile.

I wouldn't give up on the spot entirely. You never know, they may not mind you going for a casual ride once in awhile. I can't see any harm in it. Do they allow the public on it for other recreation? exorcise, soccer, football? If you catch a groundskeeper next time your out you could always check with them.

Good video Steve!
One good rain storm, ( or a soccer match) and I bet the tracks disappear...
it does look like a good spot though....

Sean - here is the posting outside these fields. I'm not a golfer or a smoker and I ain't no darn sunflower chewer!



Looks like kiting is fine! :-)