Hi All,

So I have a 3.5M HQ Alpha. So much fun, so far I can figure of 8 very well, causes some nice power. I have no problem with spins and left right movements. In short, I have the basics down in low and med winds.

Where I am struggling is Med / High winds. I'm starting to practice on a ATB board. so, I need these higher winds to get the kite to pull me. which I can do but not well.. ( unless I spin it then I can pull myself all the way down the field!)

My question is about controlling the kite in the power window. I seem to get a skimming effect where, I can turn into the power which causes pull, but very quickly I come out, turn the kite and fly back in again.

This is causing very uneven power and is messing with my balance.

I've seen vids where people can, very well, hold the kite still in the window very low and get a lot of pull..

Is there something I can practice to get better at this? If so, any ideas where I can find that kind of information? or tell me what it is I need to be doing?

I don't have much high wind here, so I wanna use the wind time I get wisely!

Thanks for the help!

when you park the kite and ride its because the winds nice and proper and allows it
you need to think about the up and down sine wave to have steady power while moving
so work on seining or you need a bigger kite....its not you its the wind

more kite more kite!!

Ahh, ok, I will give that a go. - It could just be technique to a degree. I get scared when I'm standing on the board so I tend to be gentle with the kite so it doesnt pull me over. Maybe with confidence I can pull across the window more for power.

My friend has it down to a tea... i hate him.. hes lighter than me too.. its not fair (with my kite)

Hes got a 4.5 bullet, I can hardly control that, it just pulls me on my arse and takes me for a ride down the field.. so much fun, but I'm not strong enough to pull it down into the window it takes me for a ride just going side to side at the edge.

I live in a lowish wind area. average is about 6 - 10 mph during summer.

I want traction, rather than lift for now. What size would you suggest? any models?

Im thinking a 4.5 rage or bullet?


Also, how do you get it to sit lower in the window? I can dive through it, but I can't get it to sit?

Is this me or the wind? I can use the breaks to bring it down, do I just tweak the breaks until its where I want it?

depends on your size...fly his bullet...then learn to strop in, and get comfy....then go dp

Are you inland? low lift and all grunt you should be looking at a nasa star. Affordable as well 4m gets the job done 14mph+ 5.5m in 12 mph+ 7m 10mph +

Also, how do you get it to sit lower in the window? I can dive through it, but I can't get it to sit?

Is this me or the wind? I can use the breaks to bring it down, do I just tweak the breaks until its where I want it?

Edited last post after you commented

Yes - I am inland. centre of UK. will look at the Nasa range. might contact local shop too, think they let you play before you buy.

Size - shy of 200lbs. 5ft 10"

Yeah, I think I can grow into his bullet, just a little much for me at the moment. Whats strop in mean?

Fixed bridle + strop + inland wind = injury IMO

rope that connects top top leads on handle and run through harness

down low isnt where you want to be unless you need to grab more power quick...thats where you will tend to get pulled over your board, i will see more of a park n ride when im down there cause im not worrying about gusts(at the beach) and not often....sineing like 11-10/9 o'clock is where it should be happening

ssayre...you nasa guys are starting to become like moonies:D

I had to look up what that was :D

I try to fight it but when someone mentions needing low lift, grunt, and inland wind, the urge to post overwhelms me

....flew nasa once at WW on stupid offshore nasty gusty stuff, pbly shouldnt judge it by that
couldnt really fly anything proper that day....so much brake input and delicacy involved that day its hard for me to imagine
any newb successful at it...it was more of an art, like my cquads and not implying im an artist

You can't judge from flying 4 line without z bridle. That's my least favorite thing to do next to going to dentist. Nasa Star 2 line on a bar is the only way to go IMO

ok - thanks both. I think I have enough to go on to begin with. I keep looking out the window and the trees are flailing... 100% it will have stopped by the time I finished work..

So sineing - is that doing elongated figures of 8 across the wind window?

I looked it up on google n thats what my understanding of it is?

not 8's......a wave pattern hills and valleys...this is to the left or right of you...not above or in front
you go left you sine 11-9....you go right its 1-3....smooth and generate pull w/ kite going up and down
practice static apply to board and away we go....bug, board, water all the same
someone got a link for the man?

Speed equals power .

Flying the kite fast through the window will create that spurt of power that you describe. Use that spurt to get your ground speed up. Point the board almost down wind at 1st ( in low winds ) . Fly the kite in a sine pattern ~~~. try to glide as you set up for each burst of power ( sort of on the upswing of the sine wave ) and lean against the power burst as you send the kite down into the wind each time trying to add speed to your run. In a perfect world after a few pumps you have created enough ground speed to continue more cross / upwind. You can only truly gain upwind when leaning against some power. You can only maintain power with your kite at the edge ( park and ride ) when you have a big enough kite for the wind. ( + your ground speed combined )

I personally find trying to ATB with too small a kite is a struggle. I need a certain amount of sail to lean back against. Or as you see balance gets tricky. When you are well powered you only need to dip the kite to one side to start moving. None of that dive the kite and create ground speed stuff.

Even though your Alpha is rated to fly from 6kts to 21kts flying and creating enough power to ride are 2 different things .

With a small kite you must learn in scary strong winds for the kite to perform as it should. With a larger kite you have to be responsible enough to say, " I'm overpowered and should pack up " but learning is easier and riding more enjoyable until then. Your Alpha is a great choice for building pilot skills but it falls short as an ideal engine. You buddies 4.5 is designed more as an engine. I owned a 4.5 Bulllet and loved it! Just DON'T jump with it !!!!!!!!! It has a habit of sending you hard to the ground if you miss your timing on a jump!

People who ride stand up almost always end up flying depower kites for LOTS of good reasons. This is a bit of a problem for you since depower kites need more wind. I fly 18 and 19m kites in the winds you describe. You would need at least a 10m.

I don't have a lot of 1st hand experience with the Nasa Star series of kites but they are winning people over. I suggest you look into them. They sound like they will work well in the low winds you describe. They are supposed to handle gusty wind real well. You can fly them hooked in and that is a good thing with ATB + progressing to depower. The only draw back I see with them is that they are not designed for jumping.

If you and your friend are sort of sharing a quiver you may want to consider getting something bigger to compliment his 4.5? The fact you are 2 different sizes means he should get by on the smaller choice while you have similar power to size as he does on one size up.

Tip: To avoid going over the top of the board I scrunch down low and push my feet out in front of my center of gravity. Hopefully sliding down wind or at least falling back on my butt ( and my Hillbilly a$$ pads ). :moon:

A helmet is a MUST!

Nasa star is good handling lulls. On a hard gust you might have to intentially jump forward or slide to help mitigate a gust. Ultimately, depower will be better to be able to handle a larger wind range. Like fixed bridle, nasa star has a narrow range.

There abkayak, I tempered my ns enthusiasm

I dont know how you ride, but maybe you ride to much down wind.
In kiddie language...riding towards the kite. It means you basically ride in a way that you constantly loose the tension on your lines.
solution...put your back towards the wind, spread your arms and rhats the direction you want to ride.
Move to much towards the kite and you loose tension,
move to much back from that line and you will stand still.

Kiddie languadge bit maybe it helps. If yoy can ride in low winds, you should be able to ride in higher winds.
In tree he end it comes down to hours. Making hours, getting experianced.

I understand where you are in learning, it takes a while to learn what to do, but eventualy it wil just click and you will be able to do it easily. one thing i have heard people say bvefore when working on technique is film yourself and and compare it to videos of more experienced riders. if your friend can do it film him and compare it

I personally think the original HQ Scout is a good kite to learn landboarding with.

Chris (feyd) must be out earning a living or something. I would have expected him to have opined already about the Flysurfer Peak2 Depowed Single Skin. Ssayre already suggested a DP and I tend to agree with him. I am a buggy rider not a board rider but can tell you with first hand experience in inland winds of the sort you get (and I get all the time) that the Peak2 is a superb kite for this application. I use the 12M size. I weigh about the same as you but get pulled around in a buggy so there is more total mass to get moving. I might suggest, therefore that you look into the 9M peak 2. There are at least three things you will appreciate about the Peak2 series. They launch and pull well in quite light winds, much lower winds than comparable double skin DPs. They have a ridiculous amount of DP so they are quite safe when it comes to handling buffets and gusts. Third, the larger 9M and 12M Peak2s move somewhat sluggishly (much slower than the 3.5 FB kite you are using now). Because of this you will have a vastly easier time doing the elusive park and ride positioning you are struggling with with your small FB.

I have a hard time doing the same thing with my smaller FB kites. As you will see from my list of kites I'm also a NPW enthusiast and have also great things to say about them, just no experience on a board. IMHO, I would suggest looking first at a larger Peak2, second at a larger NASA Star 3 (7 or 8.5 maybe?).

Good luck!

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

not 8's......a wave pattern hills and valleys...this is to the left or right of you...not above or in front you go left you sine 11-9....you go right its 1-3....smooth and generate pull w/ kite going up and down practice static apply to board and away we go....bug, board, water all the same someone got a link for the man?

awesome, thanks for clearing that up. I will give that a go tomorrow. Forecast some nice strong wind 21 mph tomorrow so I am hoping it should make for some good chances.

I've been figure of 8'ing so that might account for the instability.

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner

Speed equals power . Flying the kite fast through the window will create that spurt of power that you describe. Use that spurt to get your ground speed up. Point the board almost down wind at 1st ( in low winds ) . Fly the kite in a sine pattern ~~~. ...)

Hi Bladerunner,

There is a lot of fantastic information / advice here thank you very much.

I get that I'm underpowered for the board. If you can imagine, I am very new with this still. In fact, I think I've only had the alpha for 2 or 3 weeks. With very low winds, I'm not getting much 'air time'. That being said, I have mastered the control elements (basic) of the kite and the time I've had on the 4.5 has been insightful. The ATB for me at the moment is just to play with, I struggle to turn it so scared to step up the power to much Forced power from the alpha is kinda just a natural progression from just standing there with it.

I get your point with the learning curve being easier with a kite designed to pull though, I'll maybe spend more time on the 4.5 and scud a little first maybe.

I think we are going to share kites, so yes maybe getting a depower straight away might be a good idea? That way, we have small kite for high winds, bullet to practice traction and depower to progress into different winds / jumps? if I'm understanding their usage.

I get the leaning back idea that you suggest, at the moment I am 'cycloning' the kite, that generates a lot of pull and I have to counter that quite a bit.

Thanks again for the detailed post, I will re-read that a few times for it to sink in.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Nasa star is good handling lulls. On a hard gust you might have to intentially jump forward or slide to help mitigate a gust. Ultimately, depower will be better to be able to handle a larger wind range. Like fixed bridle, nasa star has a narrow range. There abkayak, I tempered my ns enthusiasm

If you had to choose, knowing where I am at the moment; either nasa star or depower what would it be?

This is likely to be a xmas present, so I have the alpha and the bullet to keep me company.

Quote: Originally posted by Devoted

I dont know how you ride, but maybe you ride to much down wind. In kiddie language...riding towards the kite. It means you basically ride in a way that you constantly loose the tension on your lines. solution...put your back towards the wind, spread your arms and rhats the direction you want to ride. Move to much towards the kite and you loose tension, move to much back from that line and you will stand still. Kiddie languadge bit maybe it helps. If yoy can ride in low winds, you should be able to ride in higher winds. In tree he end it comes down to hours. Making hours, getting experianced.

nail on the head I think here man. I've had maybe 4 hrs of kite time so there is an element of trying to run before I can walk.

I do get the idea of offsetting the kite a little though. I am running toward the wind a little, mainly because off to the side and I fall flat on my face. (cuts to prove it) or have to bail out of the straps. I have a g2a flexdeck now so maybe I will be able to lean against the pull a little more.

Plus, first time on a board so I just need to learn balance..

Thanks for the explination, it really helps. though, I am curious; other than leaning back, is there a way to counter that face planting pull? or is this just something that I will learn with practice?

Quote: Originally posted by shortlineflyer

I understand where you are in learning, it takes a while to learn what to do, but eventualy it wil just click and you will be able to do it easily. one thing i have heard people say bvefore when working on technique is film yourself and and compare it to videos of more experienced riders. if your friend can do it film him and compare it

Great shout!

I will give this ago.. damn.. there could be some funny clips for facebook too..

I think my understanding of sineing to generate power was partly to blame, thinking about it, he seems to do it correctly.

I do like the HQ kites, I might keep an eye out for a scout on ebay or gumtree

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Chris (feyd) must be out earning a living or something. I would have expected him to have opined already about the Flysurfer Peak2 Depowed Single Skin. Ssayre already suggested a DP and I tend to agree with him. I am a buggy rider not a board rider but can tell you with first hand experience in inland winds of the sort you get (and I get all the time) that the Peak2 is a superb kite for this application. I use the 12M size. I weigh about the same as you but get pulled around in a buggy so there is more total mass to get moving. I might suggest, therefore that you look into the 9M peak 2. There are at least three things you will appreciate about the Peak2 series. They launch and pull well in quite light winds, much lower winds than comparable double skin DPs. They have a ridiculous amount of DP so they are quite safe when it comes to handling buffets and gusts. Third, the larger 9M and 12M Peak2s move somewhat sluggishly (much slower than the 3.5 FB kite you are using now). Because of this you will have a vastly easier time doing the elusive park and ride positioning you are struggling with with your small FB. I have a hard time doing the same thing with my smaller FB kites. As you will see from my list of kites I'm also a NPW enthusiast and have also great things to say about them, just no experience on a board. IMHO, I would suggest looking first at a larger Peak2, second at a larger NASA Star 3 (7 or 8.5 maybe?). Good luck!

Hi Steve,

thanks for the advice. I think after reading everyones posts, I am feeling a push to the depower kites. It makes total sense and the earlier I do it, the less cash I can going to spend on FB's.

I may just keep an eye out for some bigger FB kites on auction sites while I'm saving for a DP.

I will have to research the kites suggested, as I aint really got a clue yet. Just got over my research for my first kite, as some of you might remember

Think the peak2 9m will be big enough? 12m to big of a jump up?

are the NASA's DP's too?

Nasa stars aren't dp in traditional sense. Hard to explain but I'll post a video. If you can find a 9m peak, I think that would be be perfect to cover a wide range. My 6m peak is powered at 12 mph and I can use it to mid 20's

Not only is wind direction and your path important, but IMO so is the kite. The Alpha is going to sit pretty far back in the window due to its low aspect ratio, rather than closer to the edge of the window, therefore making it more difficult to get the proper "traction" to move without getting pulled over the board. I am no expert at the board, but I have seen guys do some wicked stuff with kites and boards. Getting a little bit higher aspect ratio kite may give you the extra edge you need.

Depower rocks on a board for most.

What's the surface like that you're on? Some pavement time with it's low resistance, might help you a bit.

xanthiax - you are getting great advice from lots of folks with tons of experience (far more than me). My reason for steering you towards the 9M P2 versus 12M was me thinking that forces are easier to control sat in a buggy versus balanced on a board. As ssayre mentioned the wind range of these kites is pretty impressive. I can't comment of the Peak 1's but there are plenty of folks on PKF that swear by them as well. I believe if I'm not mistaken that ssayre has a Peak1 not a Peak 2.

The NASA STAR3's are really wonderful kites too. They are fixed bridle, but are sort of a hybrid between a trainer, 2 line and 4 line FB kite. I know that probably reads oddly. The NS3 has three lines but you principally fly them off of two lines as you would a two line FB. The third line attaches to the nose of the kite and you pretty much leave it alone except for letting go of the bar to collapse the kite in an emergency. Others on PKF such as Spencer (soliver) have brought up the good point of using the NASA DP feature to aid in transitioning from the kite being up at zenith and getting into your buggy before taking off. I would think that technique would work on a board too, but I've not tried it.

The NS3 depower feature is not at all like depowering a true DP kite because triggering this feature pretty much is just scrunching up the nose of the kite to reduce its pull but it doesn't really change the kite's aspect ratio so the lift-to-pull feel doesn't really change much. That being said, the power goes down when you scrunch up the nose, so in that sense it is "depowering". Here is a video that shows this nicely. Don't worry that the kite is being flown without traditional lines, just pay attention to the depowering: https://youtu.be/uQ56M2hWXms

A better video to see the NS3 in more action can be seen here: https://youtu.be/Rn49Ua-qisY

or here: https://youtu.be/0RMZKPlfrhI

Here are a couple of videos of the Peak2 in action: https://youtu.be/Lglcvf60Kps and https://youtu.be/XIqcVoDJYU8 and https://youtu.be/AB_hecld_yw (OK, the last one is mine!) :evil:

A little searching around youtube could keep you going for hours!