Hi, all. I hope this is the right place for such questions. I have recently purchased Prism Tensor 5.0, and this being my first kite ever, I am trying to learn how to control it. So far, I have attempted to launch it 3 times. First, there was plenty of space and wind (on a beach), but I had my lines tangled up and could not control the kite so I got chased away by life guards. Second, a smaller beach, where again I had my lines tangled up - so it did not fly. My third attempt, I think I had the lines straight but no wind.

Here are my question for the experienced folks at this forum.

1. When I am trying to launch in a wind that exceeds 10-15mph, what is the strategy for keeping kite foil down while straightening the lines?

I do not have a partner so must learn alone. And in my second attempt the wind was fairly rough with my kite moving quite a bit (which is why, I think, it was tangled at the end.)

2. What is a good way to wrap the kite and lines so that when you unfold/unwrap them, it takes little time to straighten out? (Yes, I did wrap the lines in figure-eight movement around the handlebar.)

Thanks all!

Welcome to the Monkey House! Always room for a few more good chimps.

I used to own three kites in the Prism Tensor line, the 3.1, 4.0, and 5.0. From the Prism website comes this description of the 5.0: "The Tensor 5.0 is the big daddy of our three Tensor power kites, with the stump-pulling power to get you up and going on snow or in lighter winds where a smaller kite just won’t get it done." I would attest to its stump-pulling power.

Where to start Wolphy? Everyone on PKF is invested in your fun and SAFETY. I for one would NEVER recommend a newbie launching the Tensor 5.0 as my first kite, particularly in 10-15 mph winds. I assume you are using the "kite killer" strap off of the center line of the control bar? If not, please do, cause you're going to need it. Before even going any farther, can I kindly suggest that you go down to a 2.5 or 3.0m kite as your first kite? You may have dodged some danger with all those unsuccessful launches. Think Superman: https://youtu.be/_WKbZWvo-GY

Since you are on a beach, use sand piled up on the trailing edge of the kite to keep it in place while you are setting up your lines. The trailing edge is the bottom. Strongly consider setting up the kite such that you are one the edge of the wind window and not directly at the bottom. What this means is set up the kite at say a 45 degree angle to the direction of the wind, not straight downwind so you face the kite head on with the wind blowing directly behind you. If you set up directly downwind you will be performing what we call a "hot launch" (see Superman reference above).

Here's the funny thing about how our brains work. If you are using a kite killer the simplest thing in the world in your mind before the action starts is to say "What could go wrong? If the pulling force gets too high I can just let go, just like it says in the manual". Fact of life - you will hot launch, completely forget to let go, get yanked out of your socks, and yes, Superman.

I don't want to scare you or appear over reactionary, but a resounding piece of advice you will hear on PKF is to start with a smaller kite and work up. A 5m Tensor is a lot of kite on a fixed bridle. I'm a 200+ lbs strong man and I've been completely overpower by that kite. Have fun (we all do!) but please consider safety too.

We look forward to your stories! Can you get somebody to film your first attempt? :evil:

Thanks, @Windstruck. VERY helpful points!!! I have taken safety very seriously, and (at least for my attempt at 15mph+ wind launch) managed to overcome the "hang-on-to-the-bar" reflex quite well (you would have enjoyed the part where I nearly plowed the sand with my nose there .) I think the key points that have been missing in my launch attempts have been precisely the 45-degree positioning and sand (the sand I have been contemplating already, just was not sure of it :D). I certainly am using the safety strap. I will post whatever feedback my progress brings, and will try to get someone to record me in the future.

get a 3m and you will fly more often and learn faster/better imo...you should have nothing to do w/ 5m and 15mph winds right now...keep packing up your lines the same exact way every time and soon you will be better at it...no shortcuts
welcome and have fun

Listen to Winstruck and others, I was Superman for 5 seconds before I came down and hurt myself.
One thing not mentioned is that when you pack your kite, wrap your lines with the brake on ( the bottom of the handle towards you and the top away from you) so when you unwrap your lines the kite is in brake mode.

Great example of why to start on 3 meter. It will make learning and sorting stuff out much easier

Interesting point, dangerdan, would not have thought of it! I will take extra care in the next couple of weeks to avoid strong winds and obstacles, and if I can't learn to control this monster by then I'll definitely downgrade. I am pretty heavy and athletic (over 200lb, mostly solid muscle) - and I am using this kite as a trainer for kitesurfing ones as I am starting private lessons on the later. That's why I picked this size, bash me as you might for it. :D

Nah, not bashing at all. That size is tame in light wind. A smaller size just gives you the opportunity to learn in the largest wind range possible without having to guard yourself against the kite while learning. A fixed bridle trainer on a bar basically just teaches you the wind window. Size doesn't really matter for that. Kitesurfing kites are depower and will be completely different size to power ratio.

Edit: The tensor can teach you a lot more than the wind window especially if flown on handles instead of bar.

I'm glad you mentioned that you are heading down the kitesurfing path, that helps us out in trying to guide you. As you get deeper into kiting you will find (if you don't already know) that there are a lot of different kite types, bridle setups, number of lines, control bars/handles, harnesses, etc. For a lot of land based kiting sports a lot of us would recommend learning to fly a four line "fixed bridle" FB kite off of handles. Your Prism control bar is nice in that it splits in two forming two very nice handles. You can transform your Prism from acting like a 2 line kite off of a bar into a full fledged quad lined handle controlled beauty. Little replaces the learning that takes place from learning to fly a kite "static" (standing on the ground as compared to motoring around via buggy, landboard, surfboard, etc.) no matter where you are heading in the kiting world. Learning to control a kite with all four lines independently really teaches you a great deal about how all kites work up in the air and the kind of control you can have over them.

If you are heading towards the kitesurfing sports then the Prism 5.0 is hardly a monster. With your build you will be throwing 16+ square meters of kite up in the air just to haul that chiseled physique of yours up out of the water, much less propelling you across the water. For a FB land kite 5m of ripstop is just quite a bit to handle right out of the chute. You do have a day job, right? Enough said.

One thing not mentioned yet in this thread but bears mentioning is that smaller kites (such as FBs in the 3m size range) are way ZIPPIER than the 5m Prism. Once you get a smaller FB up in the air you will know exactly what I mean. Think 18 wheeler versus sports car sort of differences performance wise. It is striking how much changing the size of a kite changes the way it behaves in the air and the time it takes to react to your input. Your 5m kite will have tons of "grunt" but will be slow as molasses compared to the exact same kite in a smaller size (such as the Prism Tensor 3.1m). If you can swing it financially I'd really suggest you buying the 3.1 and training up on that. Quick reaction time to rapidly changing conditions may just save you someday out in the water.

Have fun! You are off on a great adventure. This thread comes on the heels of us PKFers talking a college aged young man off the ledge a couple of weeks ago when he was contemplating learning to kite by throwing an old 16m DP Rhino up in the air alone on a lake. He is a great guy and listened to our advice, but that could have ended up with a Tombstone aspect to the story! Consider reading through his thread as many of these newbie issues come up and get hashed out.

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=30684

Have the patience to start the sport off right and you will have years of thrills!

Please don't feel we are bashing when saying that the 5m wasn't the best choice. Folks are just trying to warn you about the difference in going the tried and true method of starting with a 3mish kite as compared to a 5m. Many who started with a 5m kite and RESPECTED IT'S POWER have made it through the learning curve. Probably as many have been spanked and turned away from the sport. Don't be " that guy ". Accept that you have a pretty big kite and that 15mph winds will be dangerous at 1st. Live to fly another day.

That is the beauty of a 3m kite. It flies early because it's fast and you don't have to pack up when the wind actually gets strong. It is ALL about learning kite control at 1st. Setting reflex memories. You can " control " the power in a 3m kite but with any decent amount of wind you will find yourself DEFENDING yourself from the power of a 5m. Not really learning to fly so much as survive the power. If money is not a big issue then you might want to consider a 3m? Then sell the 5m when you are done with it. You will likely want to keep the 3m for fun and teaching friends down the rode.

HUGE prop's for going the lesson route and having the sense to know that learning the wind window etc. with a trainer before going in to the lessons is worth while. If money is an issue you can get by with the 5m. Money will be better spent on a depower etc. if you are moving to water. Just don't let the 5m spank you!


Check out www.kitesurfingschool.org
Look for " side launch " in there or Youtube to get a clear idea of how it's done.

Another way to " park " your kite down wind is to use a" kite stake " and hook your brake ( back ) lines to the stake. This backs the kite on to the ground similar to bringing it down from the sky. You stake the kite so you can walk up to it and apply weights ( sand) to the trailing ( bottom ) edge.

It kind of scares me that you are launching the kite without checking / walking your lines! You want to ALSO check your safety system before launching !

The big trick with wrapping your lines is to be sure you wrapping them up and unwrap them the exact same way. Wax on, wax off. I always hold my handles or bar in my left hand. Wrap on clockwise, off ANTI-clockwise. If you can wrap the lines in bar mode doing it in figure 8's is even better.



:bigok:

Wolphy,

Are you flying the Tensor with handles or the control bar? The Tensor can be flown with both configurations and is convertable between the two. Handles would be two independent handles, one in each hand with two lines attached to each one. The control bar setup would be one long control bar with all four lines attached to it as one piece.

Knowing this will help give better instruction on how to launch/land/control etc...

Quote:

(Yes, I did wrap the lines in figure-eight movement around the handlebar.)

Kent - shout out from Park City! I took it from his original "handlebar" posting quoted above that he was flying on the long bar setup. I've had this exact kite and always liked how it converted from bar to handles. I found the kite even more of a "barge" flying off the bar. The bugger is darn near impossible to turn without a combination of pull and brake that of course can only be done on handles.

Yea take it from me that college kid that had a tombstone waiting for him and was guided by all of these great guys who have been kiting for years, maybe even centuries for all I know, heck they are on this forum enough who knows they may even talk about kiting in their sleep. This is a great group of guys who you should take advice from, I've been extremely eager to fly but haven't had anywinds so I took out my 3m with winds that could barely hold up the flags suprisingly I got it in the air, and it still has pull and very much so on its way down into the power zone. I have been flying stunts for a while now and know about the wind window and how to control the kite around it. That isn't the thing you need to know the most, respecting the power and pull of the kite all around the window because even if you're at the edge and have it under control. It could turn and you will get a face full of sand after supermanning a good distance. Learning the wind window is great and actually only takes minutes to learn but learn to react to the kite when it starts to get out of control or overpowered because that is what will allow you to actually start enjoying yourself. And Steve this means I haven't put up the 2 rhinos and am alive and well contently flying the 3m hornet. Seriously these guys provide amazing help and advice take it.

Alex - grasshopper, you successfully grasped the pebble from our hands. Good work. Only folks as old as dirt (like me and a lot of the PKF family) would understand that reference. Trust me, it's a compliment. :smug:

Dear friends, if there is one thing years have taught me, it would be to have respect for experience. As of now, I am planning to return this 5m and replace it with 3m. I will likely get another tensor for it's 2 line option.

Would someone recommend a different brand as a better choice?

if theyll take it back...ok, im good w/ that...any 3m/4 line not on ebay asia will do nicely
but i think you should just drive around w/ the 5 in the trunk, buy a new 3 and go for broke
id feel better about myself anyway

abkayak, I am a bit confused... The first reason I want to downgrade is that everyone here univocally says that 5m is way too large a kite for starter. The second reason is that I want to learn as much about controlling a kite in the air as possible before/while moving on to the depower kites for kitesurfing. With that in mind, why should I keep the 5m?

Another thing is, as I am getting exposed to the world of kites here, would I be able to use the 3m kite to get started with things like kite snowboarding, buggying, etc.?

If your strictly going to go depower (which there's nothing wrong with that), than 3m is all you would need. A 5m would be good for traction for snow land in 11 mph to around 15ish

3m would be good on snow land from around 15ish to low 20's

Thanks all for your help! I hope to reciprocate in the future.

No talk of Superman would be complete without our favorite clip :o :D

Not sure if it was mentioned , but Tensor is not a type of kite that you would call a "trainer" in kiteboarding world . It is designed to provide lots of traction power for power kite activities , so you can use it in buggy, snow or landboard . Most kiteboarding instructors use 2 or 3 line trainers from 1 to 3m size that have no lift power and less pull . Mainly because it is so hard to get hurt with those , and because they want to teach you about wind window and kite control, how to avoid kite looping and doing figure of 8 before giving a big kite . Trainer faze in kiteboarding training is very short , since kiteboarding kites are so different. Usually you will get to fly big kite on second lesson . Instructor will teach you all safety procedures and give you smaller size ( 7-9m ) kite and put you in a water where is so much harder to get hurt . Now ...... funny thing is that 5m Tensor have as much power as 9m LEI kite ..... so unless you are 250-300 lbs I think 3m will be fine to learn on . Fastest way to learn kiteboarding ? Get cheap trainer ( $100 or less ) and learn about wind window an how to be in control . When you are not crushing your kite anymore, and are able to fully control it get a lesson !!!! . 2-3 lessons will teach you about 20 days of self training and it will be done safely . I know is expensive but you will be kiteboarding by end of this summer . Another thing ..... don't buy used kiteboarding gear without help of someone with kiteboarding knowledge ( including friends that are kiting a year or so ). Buying proper safe beginner gear is very important for your progression and most beginner LEI kites and boards will not outgrow you for 2 or more years , when advance kites will get you frustrated and slow down your progression a lot .

Thanks Kober. So, are you saying Prism Tensor 3.1 is NOT a good kite to use as a trainer for my kiteboarding lessons (which I have already booked, btw.?)

I am saying that 3m Tensor is a very good kite that can take you beyond training, but not necessary if you are planning to get lessons. 5m is NOT good kite to use as a trainer . For me, it is so much fun static flying in right conditions. I kiteboard for years now and I still have my 3m Tensor for fun on a beach and to drag my friends into the sport .

Got it, thank you!

Jason - that Superman clip is one of my favorites too! I liked it so much I used it in my original reply to Wolphy's posting that started this thread. :P

Question for you: how do you make the video show up like a little picture as you did as compared to just a hyperlink which is all I've managed? Just trying to get as slick as you. Man, that's a tall hill to climb! Good thing I live at high altitude.

To embed a YouTube video, use [ youtube ]B_fflPaVeOg[ /youtube ] without spaces, where B_fflPaVeOg is your video ID:
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Or just click on "Post Reply" button and use YouTube icon to set video ID.

Way to give back Wolphy!!

Although the 5m is a larger kite, especially for starting out on, I think you will be fine with it as long as you:

1) Respect it's power
2) Use all your safety gear incluing pads, helmet and safety systems
3) Only take it out when the winds are light and steady - not gusting or bumpy.

Transitioning to the larger kites for surfing you will have tons more power and having a kite that can pull harder is not that bad of a deal. I of course do recommend starting out with a 3 meter or smaller for everyone who is just getting into the sport but seeing as you already have the 5 meter and you sound like you have your head on your shoulders, I think you will be ok as long as you don't push it past your abilities or the proper wind to learn in.

If it feels like it may be too much wind, pack it away for another day. It is always better to say you wish you had a little more wind than "dang, that was way too much wind".

Also, if you can please try to find another kiter in your area. If you look hard enough or talk to your local kite store I am sure you will find someone. That is the best way to learn and the more experienced kiter will be able to assure you if it is good enough wind for your 5m Tensor.

Hope that helps.

Consider checking out this thread just started by Alex, another fine newbie fresh into the tribe. Seems he had all he could handle with a 3m Hornet in 18 mph winds. Even these "small" FBs can pack one heck of a punch if the wind picks up.

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=30739

Some more questions (don't want to start a new thread...)

1. Is there any use in sharing my progress journal on this site (and if so, should I stick with this section?)

2. What are some good sources for wind forecast for NYC area?

3. Are there any members here that live in Brooklyn, NY neighborhood?