I decided to try hotwire for the buggy. Cost less than $20. The webbing is rated at 433 lbs working load and 1300 lbs breaking point. The shackles are rated for 1200 lbs. I tied an over hand knot to form a loop to larkshead to the frame. Should I have used a figure 8? Am I done? Hopefully I get some wind soon.

theoretically I could buggy jump now :D

Not sure I'm going to try that but I can't have an OBE now

Make sure you are recording when you turtle shell. I love to see people legs flailing from under the buggy... :D
Be careful...

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

theoretically I could buggy jump now :D

Remember - gravity never takes a day off. :D

Will do. :P

I think this will allow me to hold down more power than with a harness. When it pulls hard, I start getting twisted around towards the direction of pull. This way I can keep all of my weight opposite of the pull.

Kitguru uses a hotwire setup and the only time I ever had success in a buggy was with his setup. Is it potentially more dangerous... I suppose so but for me, as a total beginner in the buggy, it was the only way I could hold on to the kite in a powered donwloop and not have an OBE. He use to always size up because the kite is pulling the weight of the kiter and the buggy as opposed to the kiter only who's trying to stay in the buggy.

Course, I did see him take two major spills, and one was upside down into the Atlantic. Don't know if either was avoidable but when he crashed it was always upside down and then your stuck until you can pop the safety and the kite is still flagging or pulling away.

You should consider some kind of quick release shackle for either the kite or yourself or both. Doesn't look like your setup has one.

When I hit the chicken loop release it will release the kite from the buggy and me from both

An Auto quick release might be better...?

Wondering.... if things suddenly go bad..... the motion to hand release may not happen quick enough or your hand might not get there before you `turtle' and then good luck trying to get at it with you laying on top of it..:puzzled: not sure how likely a scene...

I'd like to hear from more experienced opinion on this.

WELDNGOD has some info every hotwire pilot should review before trying the first time. He can also tell you what the inside of your clavical looks like.... That's with clean beach wind too!

Everything has an inherent risk, but hotwire flirts with disaster. I know thats debatable, but just saying'.
In my humble opinion...

Quote:

Not sure I'm going to try that but I can't have an OBE now

That's quite true. You'll stay firmly attached in your buggy while it flips and lands you upside down on your head. And when you're upside down, you can lose track of the kite and primary safety. I did this with my 6.5m Method and I am SO lucky it sat nose first on the ground and did not loop as I couldn't see it or reach my primary safety. (I was belted in, not hotwired).

Gumnuts also ended up on his head the first time he hooked up the hotwire - he's got it on video on XK.

Obewan got a fright when he suddenly found himself on two wheels at Kingston with his first trip with the hotwire system too.

What I'm saying is please use caution and fly in moderate conditions when starting out with the hotwire system - keep in mind you won't be able to feel the power of the kite in quite the same way. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a hell of a good system and last time out on the beach with the NS2's I flew with the hotwire for 4 hours without any strain on the bod - it was brilliant. But it's not too hard to flip a bug...:D

I don't think an auto quick release can work with a hotwire system as you're going to remain in your seat no matter what.

"Danger Will Robinson" was already taken so I settled for the next best thing.

Sean, this scene is what I was thinking of when hearing about your hot wiring.

Careful dude!

Man.. if you flip you wanna get free..





..and don't do anything out under thunder and lightning skies!

:bouncy: :bouncy:

There is a big contingency of guys over on XK and a very extensive thread about Hotwiring, if I'm right Sean, I imagine that is where this is coming from. I personally have no interest primarily because of what John was saying above, I like the direct feeling the kite directs to the harness. I have the advantage of having the Stinger "race buggy" style rails that really give you a lot of security holding you in, and have had the buggy off the ground a bit in the past (very awesome sensation).... not to mention that I frequently find myself in light wind situations that require me to frequently get OUT of the buggy to reset the kite.

All's I can say Sean is do what you do, but be careful of course!.

Sean, here's a good example of a guy hotwired to his rig. Can you play guitar? We know John can!

Quote: Originally posted by soliver

There is a big contingency of guys over on XK and a very extensive thread about Hotwiring, if I'm right Sean, I imagine that is where this is coming from. I personally have no interest primarily because of what John was saying above, I like the direct feeling the kite directs to the harness. I have the advantage of having the Stinger "race buggy" style rails that really give you a lot of security holding you in, and have had the buggy off the ground a bit in the past (very awesome sensation).... not to mention that I frequently find myself in light wind situations that require me to frequently get OUT of the buggy to reset the kite. All's I can say Sean is do what you do, but be careful of course!.

I hadn't noticed that thread Spencer. :saint::saint:

Thanks for the input, the videos were extremely helpful

They were entertaining though.

The main problem I foresee with my set up is the lack of wind this weekend to test it :evil:

Seriously though, just like when getting a new kite, I plan on choosing conditions wisely. I might not even like it, but it seemed easy enough to put together that I wanted to give it a whirl.

I still need to drill and bolt my side rails to the rear axle where they slip over in the event something doesn't go according to plan.

Has anyone considered using a roll bar on their buggy like they use on tractors. I can see the benefit if an OBE happens but since I have never used a buggy I don't know if this is practical.

Imo...I think most would prefer to have as little hard stuff around them as possible...except a helmet..and be away from the bug when things go bad...but my obe's land me in the sand

Dangerdan - I would think the trade off would be net negative. This would add a lot of bulk to the buggy and would be in a third dimension if you will, greatly increasing transportation hassles, not to mention weight which is already an issue. For a roll bar to be effective in a hard turtle crash it would have to be very stout and firmly attached to the main frame. Short of some elaborate quick release system I'd think this would make it a permanent feature so transport issues become a real hassle.

I'm with abkayak, I want as little metal around me as possible when things go South. Good thought though. A better idea might be to talk Sean out of this latest lark. Hey, Wind Gods, please start blowing in Indy so he can stop fantasizing so much. :P

Lol Steve. That's a good one. I wouldn't have added the Hotwire had the wind been blowing so your right about the fantasizing.

Sean captive systems are nice ... But when the fecal matter hits the rotary device.... You won't have time.

https://vimeo.com/16678110 I broke my shoulder in this video. Got a surgery and 5 mos. out of work....

I still ride hot from time to time. So ,I can't tell anyone NOT to do it. Just want all to know "you're in it until the dust settles".

Thanks for the cautionary words Donnie. great video too except for getting hurt.

A couple differences are you definitely like to go faster than I and not sure what the kite was but mine I'm sure are forgiving in comparison. That's not to say there's no risk but just a calculated risk. I think it would be nice for my bumpy surface because it feels like I'm trying to be pulled out on the big bumps. I think there could be some safety advantages. I will proceed with caution but I'm going to try it out. I'm also going to do some test safety releases with the peaks and ns2's to eliminate surprises.

kite is a 4.2m PKD Combat.:D

With careful planning and getting church and chores done and knowing I had a possibility of a little wind briefly this afternoon, I was able to sneak out for about 45 minutes. Wind was 8-12 but more 8 than 12 so was very underpowered using the 7m ns2. Need more wind for a good test but was able to try it out. It felt unusual not having the power come through the harness but didn't feel as strange as I thought it would. You still interpret the wind but with a slightly different set of clues. It was more comfortable. That was enough to keep me intrigued and look forward to a more aggressive session. It didn't at all feel less safe but I was in very light wind so I guess that's no surprise. I do think it's going to leave my but planted more firmly in the seat on bumpy ground and I can tell I will feel like holding down more power than normal.

Quote:

Has anyone considered using a roll bar on their buggy like they use on tractors. I can see the benefit if an OBE happens but since I have never used a buggy I don't know if this is practical.

If I was going to do a big inland trip somewhere with gusty conditions (like the Mongolia trip) I would definitely hotwire to take the strain off the bod and I would definitely rig up a roll bar on the back axle. Something like the alloy racks you see in the back of utes/pickups. The hard part is finding something to brace it to so it doesn't just fold over (quite possibly on your head!). I haven't been able to work a good bracing system for the Vmax out yet.

Come to think of it, I was going to do a big trip, I'd get a whole axle/luggage rack/roll bar unit made up. Something along the lines of the Libre Expedition buggy but with a wider luggage space so you could have a triangular brace to the roll bar.

On the Mad Way South trip, one of the riders had a really nasty crash - I think the whole buggy got lofted and thrown into some rocks and the rider was either belted in or hotwired. So I think the roll bar idea has merit. But yes, it may be heavy and hard to transport.

Skye's Spider Crab Buggy has a roll bar on the back too.

Quote: Originally posted by John Holgate

Come to think of it, I was going to do a big trip, I'd get a whole axle/luggage rack/roll bar unit made up. Something along the lines of the Libre Expedition buggy but with a wider luggage space so you could have a triangular brace to the roll bar.

Perhaps a buggy version of the "Tiger Cage."

Note: Bolt in assembly allows for easier transport.



ATB,
Sam

That's almost what I was thinking Sam. Axle directly below the roll bar and luggage rack between axle and the rear braces as shown above. May not need the forward bracing bars if the axle is pretty solidly bolted to the side rails. Added bonus of more gopro mounting spots. And you could trail a single line kite/kap rig behind you off the top of the roll bar. And if the luggage rack is solid enough, you can pick up hitchhikers.

While we're at it, let's hook up a second axle at the rear with a electric hub drive motor. :D Geez, now you've got the cogs churning....unless that's the caffeine kicking in....

One of the greatest virtues of this sport is the fact that it's only as extreme as you let it become. To generate power, a kite must have an anchor. Let go of the kite at the right time and the danger factor dissipates rapidly. Hang on to the kite a fraction of a second too long and the result can be deadly.

All this to say, whatever you choose to do, make damn good and sure that you have rehearsed your exit strategy until you can't get it wrong. The mere act of exercising your "safety devise" will show up the flaws soon enough. Do this BEFORE you need it or pay the price.

I know this sounds all hard-ass and sterile but, I've already played stupid games and won stupid prizes. Do as you please.

Thank you greasehopper. I fully plan on testing the safety. I'm also going to replace my shackles with larger welded rings and to prevent any snags. Typically I usually choose to work the kite some instead of riding full tilt. I will work my way up the wind ladder slowly with safety tests and mods as needed. That's all if I end up liking it. If I don't I'll just go back to harness

Sean, I feel your pain when it comes to riding the PL Comp over bumpy stuff. That was the main reason I went for a VTT rig. Larger seat with higher side rails so I don't easily bounce out. Now, I can keep both hands on the kite if I want, rather than always dedicate one hand to keeping the buggy under my butt. Sometimes I still feel like trying out a hotwire system myself because my buggy isn't crazy heavy, and I actually do want to give jumping a try. I love love love static jumping, especially with my 19m Speed now. I want to start having the ability to jump in the buggy as well.