I know some of the earlier PL bugs have been given the moniker "Peter Thin," but I thought this was not necessarily an issue with the newer buggies.
Mine is really only about 2 and a half to 3 years old and I just noticed this:
Seems like a weird place for a crack... I can fix it but hmmmm...
Any of the more pro welders think it may be the metal mixing combo of the mild steel of the VTT rail kit on the PL stainless?
I know theres a little rust but didn't think it was that serious.
Sorry to see this buddy! One thing I'm noticing from your photo is that it appears that the VTT rail tube is smaller than the stock PL tubing (maybe
this is just my eyes playing tricks on me). If the fit isn't snug then maybe extra forces are placed on the outer tubes that come off the rear axle,
more like point pressure as compared to distributed load. I may be completely off base on this, and like you, I'd like to hear from folks that
actually work with welding torches. Bummer.
You're making me wonder what you wrote before your edit,
It doesn't seem like a big deal and really will be easy to fix. I just thought it was weird.
The VTT rails are small enough that they have a little room to move, but I don't think this has any major adverse effects. Plus they look smaller
because the cracked PL axle tube has spread open a little. I think its more a matter of rust and failure issue... I think I let the rust on the ends
of the rails get a little too much and it has effected the axle, but I'm not 100% sure.
Really easy fix: A. buy stainless wire for my welder B. clean rust off all parts C. weld a bead over the crack D. grind off any excess E. apply new
paint to rail ends... done
I just wanted to share because it seems a little weird and was curious if anyone had any thoughts about why this may have happened.
Two buggies. I love it. And you give me (jesting) grief about lots of kites. :D
My edit: at first I though the axle tubes normally went on the inside but then I went out to the garage and looked at mine. I had originally written
something about inside v outside tubing as possible reason for break.
Agree that this is likely rust weakening. Good luck!
What is galvanic corrosion? (an electrochemical process in which one metal corrodes preferentially to another when both metals are in
electrical contact, in the presence of an electrolyte)
I'll have you know Steve, that the second bug was purchased for use as a tandem,... and over time became a complete second buggy... it was a slow and
evolutionary process that eventually ended in... well... something pretty awesome for me
Thanks Sam, thats EXACTLY what I was thinking .... electro-whosie-ma-whatsit... yea, that one... And that product looks like it may be worthwhile, ...
thanks for the advise.
Spencer - just read Plummet's thoughts on XK. That was a very interesting read. I'm a scientist in a completely different field (more along the
lines of the biological sciences) so while I have never studied physical sciences to any great extent I could none the less sort of follow along with
his reasoning. Hacking the whole tube-in-a-tube set up off does make sense to me, but at the same time seems like major surgery. Agreed, however,
that if the problem started on the inside then welding on the outside may be a sort of a fool's-gold temporary solution even if it makes the outside
look a lot nicer for a while.
Good luck with all this! Since you have it sounds like the basic skills and equipment then maybe the amputation to prosthetic limb advice could be
followed (i.e., the bolted together plates). If so, I did see merit to the 1mm plastic separation as described. Living in Hot-Lanta and
"moist-lanta" is likely going to keep this problem alive and well I'm afraid even if you adopt a new maintenance plan.
Its going to HAVE to be the temporary fix. The PL stainless is pretty thin, not so thin that its too weak, but in order to weld some stock onto it
that is substantial enough to be a good and functional tab to bolt to like he is saying is not a reasonable endeavor for me. I'm going to patch it as
best as I can and just be more diligent about keeping it dry and clean and if it comes down to it I will reinforce the "lug" with something else.
I know some of the earlier PL bugs have been given the moniker "Peter Thin," but I thought this was not necessarily an issue with the newer buggies.
Think again. I bought a new PL XR and had cracking at common stress points around the footpeg within a couple dozen sessions and about 1.5 years of
total ownership.
Meanwhile, pbc's old comp std buggy that was NZ built definitely flexes when you sit in it, but has held up much better than my much younger buggy.
I suspect I'll be finding and repairing more cracks, along with more or less turning everything on the buggy over as the years pass. It was something
I'd hoped to avoid, which is why I bought new. I don't think I'm just unlucky or particularly hard on buggies. There is a marked difference in quality
once the buggies began to be made in China.
Currently enjoying a Charger 2 quiver
6.5, 8M, 10M, 12M <3
PL XR+ Buggy
I know some of the earlier PL bugs have been given the moniker "Peter Thin," but I thought this was not necessarily an issue with the newer buggies.
Think again. I bought a new PL XR and had cracking at common stress points around the footpeg within a couple dozen sessions and about 1.5 years of
total ownership.
Meanwhile, pbc's old comp std buggy that was NZ built definitely flexes when you sit in it, but has held up much better than my much younger buggy.
I suspect I'll be finding and repairing more cracks, along with more or less turning everything on the buggy over as the years pass. It was something
I'd hoped to avoid, which is why I bought new. I don't think I'm just unlucky or particularly hard on buggies. There is a marked difference in quality
once the buggies began to be made in China.
I suspect it's only a matter of time for mine then. It gets used frequently and weighing in at 240 coupled with very bumpy ground, it's bound to
happen.
Spencer it sounds like your on the right track with repair since it is so thin. Maybe a hose clamp as well to bear some to the stress?
Spencer- I know that a standard pipe clamp would probably not be strong enough but some type of a slip on collar that you can cinch down might be the
easiest repair- just thinking out loud
s
Spencer- I know that a standard pipe clamp would probably not be strong enough but some type of a slip on collar that you can cinch down might be the
easiest repair- just thinking out loud
s
Are you talking about something like a truss clamp? Hopefully just a temp fix.
ATB,
Sam
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was 12 - Jesus, does anyone?" - The Body by Stephen King
One thing to think about is if you need a simple clamp and the beautiful one Sam shows proves hard to find then you may find an inexpensive solution
right in the fence isle of your local big-box hardware store (Home Depot, etc.). The galvanized parts that hold hinges for chain link fences are
shaped perfectly. I suspect you'd find that the 1 5/8" standard will fit nicely. I used these to craft a camera mount pole that sticks out the back
of my buggy and clamps around the rear axle. I'll post a picture a little later.
As far as I can tell the points of failure on the pl buggies would be 3 places:
1) The stub holding the footpegs on the front fork. It's not strong enough and will crack near the weld.
2) The tubes near the high stress point where the side tubes connect to the downtube. Look just to either side of the bolts and carriage.
3) As in Spencer's case, the rear stubs holding the sidetubes
I've seen buggies crack in those three places, and thinking about the design they make sense as the stress points. They should be the first things to
break. What I don't know is how effective repairs and beefing up the stress points is longterm. Will my fixes give me elongated years of service, or
not?
Currently enjoying a Charger 2 quiver
6.5, 8M, 10M, 12M <3
PL XR+ Buggy
One thing to think about is if you need a simple clamp and the beautiful one Sam shows proves hard to find then you may find an inexpensive solution
right in the fence isle of your local big-box hardware store (Home Depot, etc.). The galvanized parts that hold hinges for chain link fences are
shaped perfectly. I suspect you'd find that the 1 5/8" standard will fit nicely. I used these to craft a camera mount pole that sticks out the back
of my buggy and clamps around the rear axle. I'll post a picture a little later.
Good one Steve, I love the fence hardware. I used fence clamps to secure my backrest with rubber sleeves between to keep in place and separate the
metal.
Here's a picture of what I'm talking about. Use high quality carriage bolts, not the cheap galvanized ones. I broke one of those pretty quickly
getting this tight enough not to allow the piece of wood to rotate on the axle. The problem became somewhat analogous to the issue Paul (Robinsonpr)
was having trying to get his back axle clamp tight enough on one of Popeye's custom buggies. In my case this is a 42" long piece of redwood square
dowel picked up in, yes, the fencing section of Home Depot about 20 feet away from these perfect simple, and inexpensive clamps. I believe the size
was 1 5/8". It fit very snugly with some Duct Tape wrapped around the axle for friction. I wouldn't think you'd need to worry about that for your
application.
Keep in mind, of course, that galvanized steel will add yet one more metal to your evil brew of galvanic goodness. Duct Tape to the rescue!
Thanks for all the suggestions folks... I've been busy today appeasing the Fire Marshal so I haven't been on the forums today.
My plan is currently still just simply clean, weld, paint, done... I'm looking more seriously at rust inhibitors for the rail and even the inside of
the lug. But as for clamps, I appreciate the idea, but to me it just adds another piece to the equation that really isn't all that necessary. It might
make it work, but it won't address the corrosion problem and as you guys have said it introduces another metal to the 2 that aren't currently friendly
to one another.
When I have it all patched up I'll share some process and finished product pics.
I have this thread also up on XK and someone made the excellent suggestion to add a little grease to the outside of the rail tube before putting it in
its receiving piece on the axle to act as a moisture barrier... GENIUS!!!
New plan: Clean, weld, drill (a weep hole for moisture to escape from the inside of the axle lug), paint, grease, done.
I have this thread also up on XK and someone made the excellent suggestion to add a little grease to the outside of the rail tube before putting it in
its receiving piece on the axle to act as a moisture barrier... GENIUS!!!
New plan: Clean, weld, drill (a weep hole for moisture to escape from the inside of the axle lug), paint, grease, done.
That is a good idea but the grease could be a little messy. Seems like grease has a way of finding unwanted greased clothing or items. I thought
about this and thought it could be useful to use a bike inner tube or similar rubber product and hose clamp over the connection. This would eliminate
the need for grease. However, if you frequently take it apart that wouldn't work, but I was thinking you leave your bug together for transport like I
do.
I really don't think I have room between the rail tubes and the lug to put any kind of membrane in there, thats why the grease seemed like such a good
idea. Hopefully I won't have as much trouble drilling it as you did either. I AM planning to use my drill press though, and I don't need to be exact
since they are just weep holes for moisture to escape.
Sean - the whole between them discussion likely came out in part to a suggestion I made. As you likely saw on XK there was a superb description of
the interactions of the different metals and how they potentially exacerbated the oxidation problems Spencer was suffering from. I thought from his
original photos that there was a tiny gap between the VTT rail and the larger SS tube coming off his axle, so I had suggested putting a membrane
between the two to separate the two types of metal. It's a little crude, but I envisioned sliding a, err, raincoat over the VTT rails before sliding
it into the SS tube. The grease solution sounds better to me too (on all fronts). :evil:
That is a good idea but the grease could be a little messy. Seems like grease has a way of finding unwanted greased clothing or items. I thought
about this and thought it could be useful to use a bike inner tube or similar rubber product and hose clamp over the connection. This would eliminate
the need for grease. However, if you frequently take it apart that wouldn't work, but I was thinking you leave your bug together for transport like I
do.
There is an entire product category call Rust Inhibitors and not all of them are grease based.
Plenty of supplies to be co-opted from the marine, gun, automotive industries.
ATB,
Sam
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was 12 - Jesus, does anyone?" - The Body by Stephen King
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