Hey all,

Not that i'm bored with the ones i have, but does anyone know if they are working on and releasing anything new in a near futute??
or have they maxed out performance with the Phantom2 and charger2 ??

haven't heard much in !!! hell the last two years almost..
would be nice to get glimps or sign or something going on..

Steph

Phantom has been pulled from the lineup. Only remaining stock is for sale now. Not much in complaints about the new charger so it might be around awhile before any changes.

wow !! really, no more chargers being made.. I only have the 15M and love it as a almost every day kite winds permiting.

or the chargers when stronger.. interesting that the are letting the phany2 go..
thanks for the info

I think they are still making the Charger 2, but they are no longer producing the Phantom 2.

Yes, Charger 2 is still current product. Phantom 2 is scrapped (shaking head)

I hope they don't give up on the twinskin design and continue to enhance it.

Can't help but be a little doubtful though. I think the whole Charger I fiasco really turned off quite a few people who were willing to finally give the ARC's a chance. Fortunately, I must have received a later batch because I've never had any problems with the 15 or 19 I have. They're a little twitchy sometimes in higher winds, but nothing crazy. Don't think I'd like to try the Charger I 12m, however!

I also can't imagine the market share is there as well especially with the SLE's dominating most of the kitesurfing scene with the exception of the racing segment of course. Come to think of it, I've never seen anyone fly a PL other than me...

...but I am curious why Carl is selling his Charger 2's....:P

Hard to say. Arcs are pretty niche kites in both market and assemby process. They were way ahaead of the curve compared to many other kites but the lead in certain perfromance perameters has gotten thinner in the last few years. We used to fly Arcs locally because of the gust handling and depower they offered. Now a lot of kites ome very close to the same but with more power per size and more user friendly for more people.

The Charger 1 debacle definately hurt. It was a huge jump forward in performance which I think a lot of Arc fans "thought" the wanted. But when faced with the trade off of stability they were used to, for the added power and speed, I think it was ore than they bargained for. Then the whole mess with the bad batches and the poor response at times to resolve it just made things worse.

For me, I love the Charger 1. It enbodied everything I loved about Arcs and gave me the perfromance I craved. The Phantom 2 IMO suffered the same fate as the Charger 1. It was something that people had asked for and when it came to market the two things I rememeber hearing the most was "It doesn't fly like the original" and " the graphics suck". Really? And this was compounded even more by the price of these new wings.

Then as you pointed out, PL entered into the LEI market. A broader market with more possibility of reaching more consumer with a kite offering that is more readily accepted, easier for most people to ride, costs less and easier to make. Other resources gtting funneled into projects like the new depower foils, single skins etc.. I suspect it doesn't leave much time or $$ for arc R&D.

On a given weekend we would see nothing but Arcs here. After riding them exclusively for 5 years I didn't fly one Arc last season.

IMO the pinnacle of Arc design was the Synergy. It brought better perfromance, almost LEI perfomance, to Arcs with little impact on the stability that made Arcs so popular for so many. The Charger 2 is very much ike the Syn. In fact I think calling it the Charger 2 hurts it's image a little. "Synergy 2" woud have more appeal IMO and improve the chances of bringing some lost Arc riders back into the fold. We have both the Charger 1, 2's and Phantom 2's. I like the Charger for fun, The Phantom for hauling a$$. The Charger 2 for a mix of both.

I'm sure Carl is simply upgradeing or swapping out for freshies. As is the priviledge and obligation of a team rider. Although it seems he's been on the Leopards a lot lately.

Funny story.

I flew arc for years. Untill the Scorpion. I loved Arcs. Bought them second hand or straight out of the Peter Lynn sales in The Hague.

But people around me started flying Flysurfer. Mostly Speeds. When the Speed 3 DLX came on the market i bought one. Flew it for 3 years.

The problem I had with the FS Speed 3 was its boredom. I moved to America. Sold my Speed and got a second hand Synergy 15.

Where the speed is a park n ride, the Synergy is so much more playful. And I missed that. IMO the Speed is build for pak n ride jumping and hangtime.
The Synergy does a little less airtime, but the playfulness makes up for that. And kiting is a little bit playful to for me. If I want to park a kite, i will let my Sleddy get airtime.

I will get some more arcs. Old skool ones till the Synergy. I will skip the Charger 1. The Phantom2 and Charger2 are an option for me.

I grew up with V1, V2, P1 and Scorps and still get a ridiculous good feeling hanging under Arcs.

For me arcs are the way to go. Not as overpriced as FS. Well expensive is the word. And so playful and making me feel I actually kite. Or actually fly a kite.

I hope there is still room for PL to produce an arc in the future. I think they deserve a spot in the air.
The other day I saw a newbie flying for the second day trying to board along. He was so busy keeping an eye on his kite, while trying to get on his board. The kite drifted anmoved all the time.
See...thats the gap PL should fill up. Steady arc, perfect for starting up kiteboarding or flyboarding because autozenith and still being able to pull of jumps and rock it out. No complicated bridle system. Stuff like that. Just a way of learning how to get them airborn.

Does this mean i think other brands or kite models are not as good. No.
They are just not my cup of tea.

That's cool devoted. I had an arc and really liked it. If I lived closer to the beach or wide open areas I would want another.

I'm sure Carl is simply upgradeing or swapping out for freshies. As is the priviledge and obligation of a team rider. Although it seems he's been on the Leopards a lot lately. [/rquote]

yea I'm just swapping for new and passing on virtually new kites. I'm really loving the leopard atm but ive also just got a fury. I will always fly arcs but PL have so many great kite out that it would be a shame not to fly them.
keep your eyes peeled for the high AR foil!

Great reply Devoted!

Similar story for me. I bought my F-arc way too early for my skill level. It showed me who's boss. Just figuring out how to fill and launch it was a huge struggle. Fortunately a visitor from the UK was there that 1st day who knew arcs. He showed me a few tips and helped get it in the air. Once in the air it sent me around like a rag doll. Almost blew my ACL! Kite scared me and I eventually sold it. (then got it back ) A couple of years later I got a 13 + 18m Guerilla. Much more simple to ground handle ( but still a pain with no fill zippers ) and excellent auto zenith but I found them slow. I moved to Flysurfers. Pulse and Psycho II, III.

The year PL came to NABX with the Charger demo's things changed. I got a shot at the Charger. It felt like the perfect blend! I was excited about arcs again. That same year Ripsession went Peter Lynn. While waiting for my Chargers I had a 15m Synergy demo kite. It was amazing ! The 1st kite I had found that seemed to match my timing. FINALLY I was jumping and landing in control! Eventually I got my Chargers. Did my 1st kite loop completely by accident they turned that fast. Too fast and twitchy for my kite style. I sold them off. Bought my 15m Demo and a 10m Syn' and haven't looked back.

Just this summer I was out with IFliykites. He was trying to combine his 1st day flying depower. ( His 15m Psycho IV. ) and his 1st ( Trampa ) board ride. ( guy buys quality used gear ) . He took to the huge depower like a duck to water even though it puts out truck loads of power. He struggled more with the board. Not pointing down wind enough, like so many beginners. Having to stay on top of the huge power of the P3 was a struggle. I put him on my 18m Phantom and it made all the difference. Auto zenith and the smoother power up made it easier to keep on top of the board. He has sold the P3 and I think is in the market for a big twin skin!

Arcs are great for learning but some OG's like them to! :P

Feyd, I am happy to hear you say you feel the Synergy is the kite that they got it all together on. I have felt this way but can't say so with no time on Charger and Phantom II's. I think the big mistake was when they dropped the Synergy leaving only the Charger I as an option for a while.

If the twin skin market is ever going to thrive they need to put out more than 1 option! They need to build F-arc influenced kites to meet the new speed / race market. They need to design a gust resistant snow style kite for the stand up crowd like the Synergy and something with more grunt like the Phantom 1 for the buggy crowd. 3 VERY different arcs for 3 different markets.

Thanks guys.

Bladerunner. I agree with you. 3 different arcs. That would be great. And we just have to accept that arcs are not build for 5 knots.
I feel the market tries so hard to build kites that can do it all straight up from 5-6 knots that other models, like arcs, are being parked in the 'forgotten corner.'

I dont have a chargeable leaf blower. If there is no wind, i don't kite. Than there is no use for me. Riding upwind and all things that makes kiting fun, require wind imo.

And I love to drink a coffee or a beer and dont have to land the kite for that. Sitting down and taking a break.
I had arcs hooked up to a pole while enjoying a break. After a break hook in and continue riding.

Ow..PL Zero7 bar. I was not a fan of them. The safety released twice while in the air. It was to sensitive.

The current bar works excellent though.

Ps...u was lucky to help out and organize kite events.That gave me the opportunity to try out a lot of demo kites. From the Sabre1 and Montana1 to all kinds ofOzones and Flysurfers. I found out that I love bar pressure. It gives me a better feeling where the kite is. But I also jave to admit that starting about 10 years ago, all brands worked really hard on safety systems and quality building kites.

The sport became safer. The kites more durable.
For a long time i thought Ozonedelivered best build kites. Other brands picked that up too.
Brands learn from each other and customer feedback. Thats a good thing.

I would love to fly a 12 Peak or all the kites Carl is flying now. Just to feel how they fly and drool over buildquality and safety systems.

I saw the trainerkite from HQ on the beach.HQ Hydra. That kite was well build. I could not believe how nicely stitched and well thought out it is. From bar, to lines, to bridal to kite.
Comparing that with the first Montana that costed 3 times as much in the stores than this trainerkite...wow...what a leap in time.

Very good point about discontinuing others and limiting the line.

The last "beginner" arc was the Vortex. You need a kite like that to get people into using arcs. Even if the new Charger is more user friendly its nothing like the Vortex was.

Strangly enough i never flew a Vortex. We started off boarding with the fixed bridle kites on handles we hold on our hands. On a choppy grasfield with gusty winds. Omg..the faceplants. Hahaha..but we all nailed it at that field.
After that the Venom, autozenith plus depower made boarding so easy.

What wasnit the Vortex had that makes it such a good kite to begin with?

Not sure what's next if anything in the line up, but so glad I still have my Phantoms. I tried both series of Venoms, back then I preferred the first version based on pure power alone. Tried the Charger, it was ok, wicked fast turns, almost dangerously fast in a buggy. Flew the Phantom 2's only in the 24m and 15m size. Liked them but copulent see replacing my originals with them. Charger 2 was impressive, fast but controllably nimble. Bar pressure was a little light for my taste,some like a lighter bar pressure, I do not, but the kite was amazing (thanks markite) for letting me take your kite for a spin. Still love and fly my original Phantoms! Know them like the back of my hand, and can pull power from them when I need to.

Would like to try a closed cell HAR race profile to see what it's all about. Could be what I'm looking for for my future plans of going faster in the same winds!