So with my recent new found interest in riding sideways, (boards on water, mountain board) with the eventual arrival of winter I'm curious if anyone has played around with riding snowboards on kites strapless. Or with just toe straps like a kite board. How critical are the hi-backs to kiting on a snowboard?

I'm not talking snow skates. Although there are some sweet snow skate kiting vids out there. I'm just wondering if you can get the same feel on snow with a snowboard as you do on water with a kiteboard.

Figures the year I decide to ride a board more we are getting zero snow. :P

The issue in my experience is the inability to hold a sufficient edge in powder without the backs. I do know a few people (of much higher skill than I'll ever be) who ride with heel cups/low backs, but they are few and far between, and are without a kite. I've removed the high back for learning on the snow board some, but never completely free entry from the rear. Let us know how it goes! (Last year was my year of no snow. I could only ski as the frozen lake had too little snow on it to hold the edge on the board)

Not strapless but closest thing to a landboard/kitesurf binding

http://www.snowfer.com/Indexb.html

If we ever get some snow I'm going to have to experiment a bit. I liked riding the ground board strapless until I got comfortable and strapped in. People seem pretty psyched on strapless water riding. Maybe in the right condition s it could be done with little to no binding in snow. With practice.

It may just suck though. But worth a shot.

The bi-deck snow skates look amazing with a kite. I would like to try that.

They work sick right? Thus my interest in trying a board without being strapped in.

The only way I can see it working is with deep powder or some kind of a skateboard style deck with trucks and ice blades so you can lean a turn. You will never get an edge on a snowboard without the bindings. If you have super deep powder where you can edge against it like it was water then I could see it possibly working, but if the snow is fluffy you may not have enough resistance to edge.

Of course you could always do a down-winder' on a strapless board

Never say never. This is a bi-deck snowskate. He stays upwind just fine and says it works in a snowy field equally as well as icy lake.

http://www.lib-tech.com/snowboards/snowskate-39-complete-wit...

So it looks like there is some different versions of Snowskates, some with trucks and some without. I can see how the version with trucks could work, because the "ski" thing on the bottom is narrower, it allows you to tip the board. I'm all for different ways to enjoy the outdoors but that seems like it would be hell on the muscles if you are really trying to hold an edge. If it was a skate blade on the bottom of the deck, so you would have a single point of contact, I could see holding an edge while leaning to heel or toe side, but as it is trying to use that on ice would be practically impossible in my opinion. However, I have never used it and there is probably a video out there showing someone on ice

Snowfer's site is worth a look to find out a bit more on the technical specs and such

The Snowfer is what I was thinking of in the way of an individual edge. However, the problem I see there is trying to do a toe side You could probably pull it off but it sounds like it is not designed for that, since they talk about only sharpening one side. Put a big ol' blade in the middle, give it some height, and voila You might kill yourself with a sharp blade on the bottom but hey, it might be fun

Always wondered if there was an alternative to a snowboard and this looks like the perfect thing. would love to try it. I dint even knw it existed.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Never say never. This is a bi-deck snowskate. He stays upwind just fine and says it works in a snowy field equally as well as icy lake.

First time poster, been learning to kite for about a year now.

Awesome video ssayre! Thanks!

For those interested, check out this link: http://chillerdecks.com/

I ride these boards and they are awesome. Bi-Deck snowskating pretty much pulled me away from resort snowboarding completely. Soft conditions are definitely the best. However I did use my chiller deck last winter on firm snow with a 8m Flysurfer Unity and had no problem staying upwind, even as a kite newbie. I'm not sure it would work very well on solid ice...

One cool thing about bedecks is that you can swap out and use different sub decks (skis) to match the conditions.

just an idear, but stapless water boards have large fins. even twintips have fins so maybe try adding fins to a board to ride without heal straps. then you could probably just use landboard bindings and normal shoes!

Way to come in strong with your first post Glaucomys! It's clear that you are legit which is very nice to see. Lately we've been getting some spammers and other posers on PKF that try to buy or sell on their first post.

So let me be the first to welcome you to The Monkey House. Always room for a few more good chimps. :D. Or as others say, Welcome to the Addiction.

The boards you posted do look cool and I bet are a blast to ride. There was a picture in the site you posted of a dude free wheeling in the trees in deep pow. Makes for a great shot and I'm sure a fun ride. I'm concerned, however, with loosing the board. I'm a skier, not a boarder, but when I'm in the steep and deep I tie powder cords to my ski bindings. They've saved me more than a few times when I'm digging for a ski after a wipe out. Without being strapped in I could see pitching off the board and having it torpedo into the abyss. With good fortune it planes up to the surface, but depending on what force was on the board last it could be heading anywhere.

Quote: Originally posted by Glaucomys

First time poster, been learning to kite for about a year now. Awesome video ssayre! Thanks! For those interested, check out this link: http://chillerdecks.com/ I ride these boards and they are awesome. Bi-Deck snowskating pretty much pulled me away from resort snowboarding completely. Soft conditions are definitely the best. However I did use my chiller deck last winter on firm snow with a 8m Flysurfer Unity and had no problem staying upwind, even as a kite newbie. I'm not sure it would work very well on solid ice... One cool thing about bedecks is that you can swap out and use different sub decks (skis) to match the conditions.

These new bi-deck snowskates look pretty rad. This is the first time I've seen them, as well.
I'd love to play with one, however I think I'll keep my bindings when I kite, as I'd be scared to go any speed on a rig like that on ice or thin snow cover. Looks like the legs would get pretty sore on a long ride, too.

We have no snow either. It's supposed to rain tomorrow. Liquid rain, in Saskatchewan!

Thanks Windstruck!

Yes, a leash is necessary. I use an Ungi Bungi

http://www.fpskate.com/product/ungi-bungi-snow-leash

Some of the other guys use dog reel style leashes.

No kites in this vid, but some shots of leashes in action

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CMBoTUEoPg

Not kite related, but when climbing it is easier to drag the board by the leash rather than carry it, bi-decks are on the heavy side.

Good stuff. The first leash looks just like the one I have on my bodyboard (surfing). I actually really like the idea of the dog leash style leashes you describe (and can see in action in the vid). I for one haven't seen those used for powder skis but it's not a bad idea, not a bad idea at all...

Thanks for the share.

Quote: Originally posted by Glaucomys

Thanks Windstruck! Yes, a leash is necessary. I use an Ungi Bungi http://www.fpskate.com/product/ungi-bungi-snow-leash Some of the other guys use dog reel style leashes. No kites in this vid, but some shots of leashes in action https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CMBoTUEoPg Not kite related, but when climbing it is easier to drag the board by the leash rather than carry it, bi-decks are on the heavy side.

Quote: Originally posted by Glaucomys

First time poster, been learning to kite for about a year now. Awesome video ssayre! Thanks! For those interested, check out this link: http://chillerdecks.com/ I ride these boards and they are awesome. Bi-Deck snowskating pretty much pulled me away from resort snowboarding completely. Soft conditions are definitely the best. However I did use my chiller deck last winter on firm snow with a 8m Flysurfer Unity and had no problem staying upwind, even as a kite newbie. I'm not sure it would work very well on solid ice... One cool thing about bedecks is that you can swap out and use different sub decks (skis) to match the conditions.

Welcome Glaucomys. Thanks for the link to chiller decks. Unfortunately snow is not guaranteed where I live. We always at least get some, but can vary to a lot to very little so I've always been hesitant to invest in snow equipment. I think I will tinker with whatever I can find locally and try to build a snowskate to start off with.

Hey Chris,
Its out there do a search for snow surfing, a modified surfboard to ride powder strapless. Unless we get snow like last year though can't see it being very practical on the east coast. Think there is a guy in Colorado that makes them. Videos look awesome.

ssayre, some of the first bi-deck skis I used were little snowboards ripped lengthwise twice, with the middle removed to make them skinnier, then bolted back together. The top deck could be anything, although concave is nice for applying edge pressure.

Here is some inspiration for tinkering.

Thanks! That seems to make the most sense since snowskates do not become available locally and used snowboards in my area go pretty cheap

Hmm. I guess I am turning into an old fart because I like my snowboard. I guess the youngen's new toy is the snowskate. I'm completely devoid of time so I will not be buying one right now but if I ever have the chance to ride one I will certainly try it.

However, ask any water kiteboarder and they will tell you to stay well away from leashes.

Quote: Originally posted by Futahaguro

Hmm. I guess I am turning into an old fart because I like my snowboard. I guess the youngen's new toy is the snowskate. I'm completely devoid of time so I will not be buying one right now but if I ever have the chance to ride one I will certainly try it. However, ask any water kiteboarder and they will tell you to stay well away from leashes.

I think the leash is for downhill use. I wouldn't wear one for kiting.

The snowskate is appealing to me because I like the thought of not strapping my feet in while I play around in my relatively small fields. I'm a little on the heavy side and if I fall over with a snowboard attached to my feet, the snow would cover me and I might not be found until Spring due to not being able to get up.

sweet deck! i think i would go step-in strap (like ATB) if any for snow, certainly would go strapless if terrain/surface was suitable.

snowfer looks great ! definitely would ride that junk!

just like the skates , being strapped in with bindings or boots spoils the phreedom.

Quote: Originally posted by Futahaguro

stay well away from leashes

Leashes are a double edged sword to be sure. I'm old enough to have learned to downhill ski when we still wore "ski straps"; short sturdy cords coming off the rear binding and getting wrapped around your lower leg. Nothing quite as fun as taking a high speed crash and go tumbling down the mountain with your skis flying all over the place right around you. You'd have to cover your face with your forearms like you were in a boxing ring and you'd get cut a lot if your edges were sharp.

If you are on some sort of snowboard without bindings and snowkiting I wouldn't think there would be a safety reason not to have the board somehow attached to you. I like the idea of the spooling line that would play out like a retractable dog leash. My dog's leash is 16 feet long and I'd think that would be perfect.

The way I see it, if you are snowkiting and get dragged or lifted off your board you will be pulled away from your board by the kite until you land, get under control, pull the safety release, etc. I wouldn't think you'd be in any danger of be clobbered by your kite and at least your board would be retrievable by just pulling in the line. If the snow is deep enough to be concerned with loosing the board in the snow then I don't want to be walking around in it with nothing on my feet. Where I live when the snow gets deep like this (and we love it when that happens) you will post hole up to your hip trying to walk around. Pretty tough going.

If on flat terrain, I do not use a leash. The guy in ssayre's video link was not using one.

However, in the mountains having some connection to a strapless board is a must. Without one the board tends to plane out, turn downhill, and find a tree or the bottom of the slope. Also, where allowed at resorts, a leash is required to use the lifts. At our local resort, they require the board to hang from your foot while riding the lift (to keep the edges off of the chairs?) so we have to slip our foot under a strap before loading (bike inner tube tied around top deck) in addition to a leash.

A danger of riding strapless with or without a leash is falling in front of the board, as it can get you.

Windstruck, I wish we got that Utah fluff! I have not yet lost a board as the snowpack here is usually more maritime, and they tend to stab in and stick out or resurface, rather than torpedo below the surface. Once in a while though...

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Quote: Originally posted by Futahaguro   stay well away from leashes Leashes are a double edged sword to be sure. I'm old enough to have learned to downhill ski when we still wore "ski straps"; short sturdy cords coming off the rear binding and getting wrapped around your lower leg. Nothing quite as fun as taking a high speed crash and go tumbling down the mountain with your skis flying all over the place right around you. You'd have to cover your face with your forearms like you were in a boxing ring and you'd get cut a lot if your edges were sharp. If you are on some sort of snowboard without bindings and snowkiting I wouldn't think there would be a safety reason not to have the board somehow attached to you. I like the idea of the spooling line that would play out like a retractable dog leash. My dog's leash is 16 feet long and I'd think that would be perfect. The way I see it, if you are snowkiting and get dragged or lifted off your board you will be pulled away from your board by the kite until you land, get under control, pull the safety release, etc. I wouldn't think you'd be in any danger of be clobbered by your kite and at least your board would be retrievable by just pulling in the line. If the snow is deep enough to be concerned with loosing the board in the snow then I don't want to be walking around in it with nothing on my feet. Where I live when the snow gets deep like this (and we love it when that happens) you will post hole up to your hip trying to walk around. Pretty tough going.

a reel leash is dangerous when kiting just as a small leash is. the reason people stay away from them is the anchor and release effect that sends a missile heading towards you.

Is there any reason a kids plastic snowboard wouldn't work for a powder snowskate ski? I thought about cutting down a plastic snowboard I already have. I would cut it in the shape similar to a lib tech snowskate ski that is wide in front and thin in back.

Just not sure If I would be wasting my time and should just get a used snowboard and cut the middle out to shape it and have edges remain.

ssayre, in any sort of firm snow / breakable crust / ice you would really be wanting metal edges. A plastic edgeless ski would probably work in soft snow and might be a fun first adventure into snow skating.

Another consideration is going to be how stiff the ski is. Cutting a board down makes it softer. Maybe laminate some of the trimmings to the top of the ski to stiffen it? If it is too soft it will end up with a lot of rocker.

Also, optimally one of the trucks allows for a change in wheelbase to let the ski flex evenly along its length, rather than just bending outside of the trucks. As the ski flexes into a carve, the wheelbase shortens, although not very much.