Finally we have some good snowkiting conditions here in Sweden! Unfortunately we've been unlucky with wind speeds, which is why I'm thinking of a bigger alternative to my Peak 6m. This last week I've had great ice/snow conditions, but so little wind I could barely get going on skis.

Learning on the Peak last season was great, and the Peak2 9m looks very tempting indeed, but there are some things that have me leaning towards something else entirely.

I find the bar pressure on the Peak a little too heavy, my arms get a bit tired from riding with the bar pulled in, working the kite and sheeting in and out a lot. Adding to this is the fact that I usually have to pilot the kite all the time, it's not exactly park-and-ride compared to the few LEI's I've tried. (Still considering myself a beginner, so I'm probably riding slightly underpowered all the time.) Also, there's all the talk of tip tuck on the PK2.

On the other hand, I'm absolutely in love with the depower range of the Peak, I can launch/land anywhere and anytime I want, and the kite never feels "scary" to me since I'm always able to dump almost all its power.

I don't want to go LEI again because of all the setup hassle, people keep suggesting the 8m or 10m Ozone Access but it feels like I'll miss the safety of the Peak? (I've never tried any other foils for snowkiting.) Also, a regular 8 or 10m foil would kind of overlap with the wind range of the 6m Peak, right?

whatever kite you decide on, Go BIG since you already have the peak 6 you need a light wind kite to cover 7-12 knots.

Also, keep in mind the peak 1's have more projected area than peak 2's by about .5 meter per size. So there will be even more overlap on low end on a p1 6 meter and a p2 9 meter. I'd go 12 meter if going the peak 2 route.

I haven't flown one, but he access seems to be a real crowd pleaser. Especially the later ones with the re-ride. I'm sure they will speak up.

yea...i know you want a foil type kite....but
if you get a larger peak(9) for the same winds you wont be in and out on the bar or working the kite as much...right?
i wont mention the familiarity you'll have or being able to leave the 6m in your back pocket

Quote: Originally posted by Coldsnap

Finally we have some good snowkiting conditions here in Sweden! Unfortunately we've been unlucky with wind speeds, which is why I'm thinking of a bigger alternative to my Peak 6m. This last week I've had great ice/snow conditions, but so little wind I could barely get going on skis. Learning on the Peak last season was great, and the Peak2 9m looks very tempting indeed, but there are some things that have me leaning towards something else entirely. I find the bar pressure on the Peak a little too heavy, my arms get a bit tired from riding with the bar pulled in, working the kite and sheeting in and out a lot. Adding to this is the fact that I usually have to pilot the kite all the time, it's not exactly park-and-ride compared to the few LEI's I've tried. (Still considering myself a beginner, so I'm probably riding slightly underpowered all the time.) Also, there's all the talk of tip tuck on the PK2. On the other hand, I'm absolutely in love with the depower range of the Peak, I can launch/land anywhere and anytime I want, and the kite never feels "scary" to me since I'm always able to dump almost all its power. I don't want to go LEI again because of all the setup hassle, people keep suggesting the 8m or 10m Ozone Access but it feels like I'll miss the safety of the Peak? (I've never tried any other foils for snowkiting.) Also, a regular 8 or 10m foil would kind of overlap with the wind range of the 6m Peak, right?

Heja Sverige! Cool to see a post from up North. I lived in Stockholm a total of 6 years, have a sister that lives permanently in Granna (sorry, no umlad), and love your country. At some point I'd be most interested in knowing where you live and where good kiting can be found.

There are many, many good kites out there as you know. Each of us have our biases, mix of experience, and exposure to different wings. I too greatly like the Peak-2 for Snowkiting as well as the Access (V6 with Re-Ride). Owning both the 6m P2 and 6m Access V6 I will tell you that the P2 has a lot more pull. Conversely, I would use my Access in much higher winds with confidence. Should you want to stay in the Peak family I would go all the way to the 12m Green Monster. With the amount of DP you already appreciate you will find the 9m too close to the 6m.

Here is a video from my buggy on grass where I flew the 6 and 12m P2s back to back on the same day.



If you want to go the Access route, be sure to get a new V6 model as it has Re-Ride. This is a GREAT system. Essentially, the 5th safety line goes into the kite and when pulled scrunches up the kite. Now that I have it I don't want a two skin DP without it. Since the 6m Access has less pull than the 6m Peak I would think that at last a 10m Access would be necessary to get you into low winds. I have not flow any Access other than the 6m so I can't speak to the low wind behavior of the larger kites in this series.

Here's the thing: the Peaks really shine as low wind machines. In a sense you put up with some stuff (occasional tip tuck, bar pressure) to get the low wind performance. The small Peaks are for most folks their high wind kites so that sort of goes away as a feature. The 12m P2 is a wonderful low wind kite IMHO and if you already own and like the 6m then you are a Peak fan and I suspect that you will like the behavior of the 12m better than the 6m. As for bar pressure, if you make long runs without needing to turn around every few seconds then you should learn to use the little stopper ball above the bar. Once you get going on a tack slide the ball down about 2/3s of the way. It will not let the bar go farther out and will take the load off your arms. Note that you have now sort of turned your DP kite into a FB one, so be sure to practice disengaging the ball quickly should you need to DP in a hurry.

Last thing I'll say is the Access is a great high wind kite in 4m and 6m sizes due to its rock solid performance and low lift. If you want to boost, jump, glide, etc. on skis the Access is not going to be your tool of choice. If you want to stay firmly on the snow then that will be a positive for you.

Others should (please) chime in with other choices. There are lots of snowkites out there used by people with a great deal of experience and far larger exposure to different models than me. This is my first year Snowkiting.

Lycka till!

HEY BUDD youre in the wrong forum if you want honest advice about the peaks, these guys will try their best to convince you how great the peaks are even though any experienced kiter will tell you thyre crap. and when that dosent works thye will even throw in a few insults to convince you otherwise. The peaks have a lot of issues, high bar pressure, on and off power delivery, the small sizes are unstable in high winds , tip tucking in the larger sizes,annoying vibrating back lines and so on . Get an ozone access or if youre in to some fun get a HQ montana or speed 4.

I would suggest two options.

Ozone Access and Frenzy. Both are equipped with Ozone's ReRide systems and that system in terms of safety is as good as the Peaks and maybe better in some ways.

Depower ranges are very close although the Peak does have some advantage depower wise at the cost of overall flight quality.

Lower bar pressure, no flutter and excellent gust handling are traits in both the Access V6 and The Frenzy V10. The Access is an excellent all round forgiving kite. The Frenzy is very much like the Access, in terms of gust management and depower, but with faster turn rate and more lift.

This all said, if you are looking for a kite that will perform as well as a 12m Peak or better and are focused on the two options I've listed here you would be looking at the 14m range which honestly is less of a light wind engine and more of an engine for heavy riders in normal winds. Unless you purchase it in a UL version.

Another option, especially for light wind performance, would be the HQ Matrixx 2. Flight quality is excellent and it's closed cell so you have double duty for water use. It is by far one of the nicest kites we've ever seen and in terms of lightwind performance, a great kite for the money.

I guess that's 3 options.:P

wow...someone doesn't like peaks very much

Honest feedback is always appreciated. There is no perfect product and we all know that. Pros and cons to all. I like hearing the negative feedback. A user will experience it either way. Better to know up front what you are buying and decide that its acceptable than own it and then realize its not.

If a review doesn't equal a fair or even shares of cons with the pros then I assume the reviewer either 1) does not have enough time on the kite to know how it truly performs or 2) is passing on more stoke with their new purchase than actual unbiased feedback on performance.

exactly I wish someone was honest before i bought one, would have saved me some hard earned cash, the only benefit to the peaks are the small packdown size and the almost 90% depower when u let go of the bar that's it. the negatives far outweigh the positives.

Quote: Originally posted by B-Roc

Honest feedback is always appreciated. There is no perfect product and we all know that. Pros and cons to all. I like hearing the negative feedback. A user will experience it either way. Better to know up front what you are buying and decide that its acceptable than own it and then realize its not. If a review doesn't equal a fair or even shares of cons with the pros then I assume the reviewer either 1) does not have enough time on the kite to know how it truly performs or 2) is passing on more stoke with their new purchase than actual unbiased feedback on performance.

peaks suck, there I said it. Every negative I said about the behavior of them are 100% facts :frog:LOL

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

wow...someone doesn't like peaks very much

Sometimes people on the internet forget that a negative review of something isn't a personal attack on someone who gave a positive review.

But yes, honest feedback can't hurt. Let people read things for what they are.

"Small pack down and 90% depower when you let the bar out"

Oh is that all it does I guess that's not a big deal if you have coastal wind, but when 100% of your kiting is inland fields then you begin to appreciate that.

Flysurfer's own advertising for this is pretty clear its meant for back country kiting/touring and also advertised as being a good beginner kite.

in my opinion it performs exactly how it was designed. If those critical design elements are not important to a person than the peak probably isn't the right fit. Especially for people with such vast experience and knowledge.

Location, disciplines, style of riding all go into kite choice. I'd like to point out that I would most likely have a very different quiver if by water. Most likely would have an lei or 2 and would have tried a speed by now. not to mention a full quiver of vipers (fixed bridles). As it is, I like kites to maximize the use of my locations. I also, like to do a lot of short line unique stuff. To each their own. I really haven't flown a kite I didn't like.

Thanks for all the advice! Lots of interesting input!

Quote:

"Small pack down and 90% depower when you let the bar out" Oh is that all it does I guess that's not a big deal if you have coastal wind, but when 100% of your kiting is inland fields then you begin to appreciate that. Flysurfer's own advertising for this is pretty clear its meant for back country kiting/touring and also advertised as being a good beginner kite.

Exactly this. It was a wonderful kite to learn on, being able to dump all its power was great for safety, and even the increased bar pressure was kind of good for getting a feel for the kite. Also, most of my kiting is done on inland fields and frozen lakes, which means there is hiking and bad winds involved.

I wouldn't say I've "outgrown" the Peak, it's just that I'm beginning to feel it would be nice to change things up with a kite that's a bit more park-and-ride and easier on the arms.
Sounds like I'm not really going to get much better light-wind performance unless buying a huge >14m kite (or another Peak), and I think I might not be ready for that yet. (A friend of mine has a 19m Speed2 that I've tried on some occasions, and it's kind of like being attached to a train.)
Feels a little silly to buy another kite in the same wind range though...

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

"Small pack down and 90% depower when you let the bar out" Oh is that all it does I guess that's not a big deal if you have coastal wind, but when 100% of your kiting is inland fields then you begin to appreciate that. Flysurfer's own advertising for this is pretty clear its meant for back country kiting/touring and also advertised as being a good beginner kite. in my opinion it performs exactly how it was designed. If those critical design elements are not important to a person than the peak probably isn't the right fit. Especially for people with such vast experience and knowledge.

Yes, the Peak does exactly as it is designed. If you are a "park and ride" type of kiter looking for the smoothest, uber stable flying experience with minimal need for pilot input, the Peak isn't the kite for sure. You can't find a Cadillac ride in a Jeep. :D

The Peak is unique in what it does and what it offers. It's a bit weird no doubt but man it makes life simple in some of the places people have to ride and if you ride it powered and sheeted in it's a pretty darn smooth ride.

Coldsnap, if you go the >14m route just be mindful, not all big kites are lightwind kites. If it's 14M + and not made of some flavor of ultra light fabric, the kite is intended for larger/heavier riders. Not light winds.

The only exceptions would be race type foils like Chronos, Sonics etc.. They are standard fabric but super efficient and able to offset the weight of standard fabric.

Early Speeds were power houses. Loved the way they felt.

Another thing to consider when looking for advise on light wind options is who you are asking and what their definition of "light wind" is. For example on firm snow or ice with skis, my definition is 3kts +/-. On glass we can ride in less than 3. But someone in deep pow, is going to have a higher wind speed in mind.

Speaking of the Jeep/Peak comparison. I think I want to steal some phrasing from the Jeeping community and make a sticker.

"It's a Peak thing, you wouldn't understand."

:P

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre   Especially for people with such vast experience and knowledge. "It's a Peak thing, you wouldn't understand." :P

Right on brothers! Auto signature updated. :moon:

shouldn't you/he be on the 9m anyway now??...he's under powered and working the kite allover
probably wouldnt/shouldn't be using the 6m much now that he has the flying thing down pat unless the winds high
lets back up...not looking for a lite wind kite, looking to be properly powered in the snow...correct?

ok go!

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

shouldn't you/he be on the 9m anyway now??...he's under powered and working the kite allover probably wouldnt/shouldn't be using the 6m much now that he has the flying thing down pat unless the winds high lets back up...not looking for a lite wind kite, looking to be properly powered in the snow...correct? ok go!

Agreed. Suggestions were made for larger Ozone kites with re-ride like Access and Frenzy. Note that he was mentioning needing to hike into places to kite, so a 12m P2 might be nice for its small packing size and weight. But agreed, best for low wind.

Quote:

HEY BUDD youre in the wrong forum if you want honest advice

My experience has been the exact opposite. I've been reading most of the stuff written about the Peaks over the last couple of years - the majority of it very positive. I've also PM'd quite a few of the Peak 2 owners and asked specific questions and always received helpful, honest advice. It all lead up to me purchasing one and it does exactly what everyone said it does. (ok, ALMOST everyone). Wonderful kite!

Quote:

If you are a "park and ride" type of kiter looking for the smoothest, uber stable flying experience with minimal need for pilot input, the Peak isn't the kite for sure.

I did 75km of cruising on the beach recently with the Peak 2 6m and I thought it was a wonderfully stable, fuss free park n ride experience. No strain on the arms as I was often using the 'cruise control' stopper ball. It needed very little attention from me allowing me to sit back and enjoy the view. Now admittedly, this was a very stable on shore wind of 6-12 knots. I can't believe the 6m can actually park and ride with the buggy in 6 knots but it did. (sea level, South Aus, so the wind is reasonably dense).

On a previous occasion, I gave the P2 to a 9m P1 owner and he thought it was a much more sophisticated bar and kite and loved the stopper ball that took the strain off his arms. He commented that it was a big improvement over the P1.

Without a doubt,as with any kite, in the right conditions the Peak is as smooth and rock solid in the air as one could hope for. I was referring more to how it is in less than good conditions where you are forced to manage wide swings in wind speed. For example you guys are learning the value of using a stopper ball. Here in many of the places we ride we can't use the stopper ball much. It lacks the push level of push through to be used safely. When I used the stopper I generally have 2 fingers on it for rapid readjust.

Similar to auto zenith on Peter Lynn arcs. Awesome feature, love it, doesn't work here.

This isn't a reflection on the Peak as a kite.

The key here is that you guys are using the stopped. Indicating that you are riding somewhat powered with minimal depower flutter. In those conditions the Peak flies smooth as any kite. It's the people who don't have the ability to figure that out or are unwilling to, that have the issues.

Whereas more traditional foils like an Access is going to feel the same regardless of power range. No flutter feedback etc...

I like flying different kites. Some I like more than others but there are few kites that aren't fun if you figure out their quirks and are willing to adapt.

Thanks for all the input!
Looks like I'm more or less back where I started, choosing between a 9/12m Peak2 and an 8/10m Access. Tough decision! :-)
Leaning more and more towards the 10m Access tbh. Not for range but more for comfort and variation.

The most important task at hand at building a quiver is covering as much wind range as you can. 8/10 access will more or less cover same as your peak. That's fine if you are more interested in an alternative, but I would focus on covering a broader wind range using what you have now.

gotta figure out if you want to replace what you have or broaden wind range

1st world problem....take the Marine approach.....buy them all and let God figure it out

Sasayre is right. 8/10m Access is essentially the same power you have now with the 9m. You'd get better light wind performance with the Peak 9m and 5-10m line extensions than you would with a 10m Access.

just get an access.

Hahaha. Haters gotta hate. :evil:

And there's nothing in the Access line that can out perform the 12 Peak in light winds.

I think we can use this forum as evidence to create a new medical condition, lets call it delusional peakivitis- symtoms include very irrational thinking, eX- convincing one self that a negative thing is actually a positive thing, Accepting the inferior just to be different, attacking others that speak truth and facts, rambling and obscessing on and on about 1 good point but ignoring the 100 other bad points ,,sort of like tunnel vision, a person with peakavitis also usually loves those nasa type things or kites and rambles on about them also. LOL I knw abayak will love tht one

Fortunalely there is a cure for these poor fellows. someone just needs t take them out to a field and put a proper 4 line kite in their hands a good stable kite and boom ! thy will be instantly cured.:wee: