Took my new 10m Access v6 for it's maiden flight Sunday evening. Had mostly success, lots of twists in the bridle, but eventually got things sorted out. Just enough wind to get me moving around the lake a little bit.

Went out again today with a little more wind, maybe a hair under 10kts? Lots more speed! Had one screw up where I stalled the kite and let it twist before I could get it flying again. Had to unhook the harness and tame the kite before relaunching.

Anyway, this snow kite thing is a riot, so much fun! One semi-regret is that I already feel myself wanting more out of the kite, and kind of wish I had gotten something with more power. I'm assuming the Access will come alive in more breeze, but it's killing me on the light wind days. If there was any more snow on the lake I don't think I would've been able to go anywhere. Even actively flying the kite in the power zone wasn't producing much pull, and it's very slow to turn.

So anyway, if I want to keep the Access to keep learning things, especially as I take it out in higher winds, what should I look for to keep me entertained on the lighter air days, but will still grow with me into higher wind speeds as my skills improve? Especially as I move off ice/hardpack and into snow. Something for the bottom (5-10kts) but won't kill me as the wind builds into the teens?

I've got my eyes set on the HQ Montana series, and am thinking the 14m should do what I want. There is an M7 14m on ebay that might be calling my name... Am I on the right track? I'm a bigger guy, 6'4 220lbs without gear. Thanks for the help!

greetings, you may want a few heavy air sessions before anything bigger to get the scope of the scene, but if its <15knts mostly at your spot, plan on wanting more kite for sure esp. if you already have some solid powered sessions under your belt.

Thanks for the welcome.

I guess this was a fairly typical "nice" day for the winter up here, especially getting later in the season. Typical forcast when it isn't nuking is in the 5-10mph, maybe 15 tops range. Went a front or other weather is moving through the area, it's in the 20-25+ range. Forcast for tomorrow is gusts up to 35mph for example. So not much in between the two ranges, it's either light or heavy. This is partly why I think the 10m may have been the wrong kite for me, because it's probably a little small for the light air days, and a little big for the 20's?

Uploading some videos to youtube stand by...

well a 10m and 14m is good unit spread for your size up to 30+....the 10m should good to go for 20 and up.

sounds like the 14 would see plenty of time, and thats what you want , 10m is not a mistake in time you will see its usefulness

Sorry for the wind noise, cell phone video from today:

https://youtu.be/DRu4sQ_RklU

https://youtu.be/GmOYhpoVPPg

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Thanks for the welcome. I guess this was a fairly typical "nice" day for the winter up here, especially getting later in the season. Typical forcast when it isn't nuking is in the 5-10mph, maybe 15 tops range. Went a front or other weather is moving through the area, it's in the 20-25+ range. Forcast for tomorrow is gusts up to 35mph for example. So not much in between the two ranges, it's either light or heavy. This is partly why I think the 10m may have been the wrong kite for me, because it's probably a little small for the light air days, and a little big for the 20's? Uploading some videos to youtube stand by...

Nah, there will be plenty of days for it imo. Just wait and see. Usually it takes 3 kites to cover a decent wind range.

Glad your digging it and welcome.

Thanks Phree that makes me feel better! I probably have another solid month of riding before the lake ice starts to get questionable. Looking forward to getting as much time as possible out there! Bonus points is the lake is my back yard. I put my ski boots on in my house and ski right out on the lake.

i watched the vids, the 10m is good to go...as you keep kiting your effiecency, kite handling, speed control, body position and judgement will get better. You are doing great.

20-30 more hours on the 10m and you'll be a different sailor/pilot , just keep up with conditions and you'll session a ton

Any tips for riding down-wind? Easiest point of sail so far has been a reach or even slightly upwind. I'm guessing it's because i'm in light wind and it's easier to keep the apparent wind up and keep the kite in the air this way. Downwind i find myself over riding the kite and stalling it unless I'm really careful. The vids above were in some of the "gusts" of the day, definitely felt everything liven up there, but still not enough where I could really lean back in the harness. It was about all I wanted on the ice though, get's harder to hold an edge real quick... in the snow, bring it!

downwind you need alot of kite action and enough edge to keep lines tight, you have to use the whole window .

heres a somewhat related vid , i'm on a land board but demos kite action and the back and forth edging to maintain tension ...lots of looping and high and low positions of kite action. maybe it'll help.

most would consider downwind "running " a very balance dependent, as you are more up right falling from edge to edge as you go , like down hill ski actually

https://vimeo.com/37769782

Sweet action shots there Phreerider!

Memopad: I really like the lime color on that Ozone! It's a keeper for sure!

Frank

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Thanks for the welcome. I guess this was a fairly typical "nice" day for the winter up here, especially getting later in the season. Typical forcast when it isn't nuking is in the 5-10mph, maybe 15 tops range. Went a front or other weather is moving through the area, it's in the 20-25+ range. Forcast for tomorrow is gusts up to 35mph for example. So not much in between the two ranges, it's either light or heavy. This is partly why I think the 10m may have been the wrong kite for me, because it's probably a little small for the light air days, and a little big for the 20's? Uploading some videos to youtube stand by...

Glad to hear you are enjoying Snowkiting. I agree, total hoot. For winds in the 5-10 range you may want to take a gander at the 12m Flysurfer Peak-2. Particularly for the low end of that wind range. The P2 is a so-called single skin and as such will loft in extremely light wind and start tugging you along in just a little more.

I hear you about the larger kites turning a little more slowly. A lot of us that have Access kites have the smaller sizes (4 and 6m) reserving them for really high wind days when we want rock solid stability. I've never flown a 10m Access but I suspect it is sort of "dead in bed". That "deadness""is quite welcome when it's nuking but probably a little too tame in lighter winds as would be appropriate with a 10m kite.

You have the V6 Access so you know all about Re-Ride. I LOVE Re-Ride and wish all my DP kites had it. If you don't want to go the route of the Peaks then you could also consider a larger Frenzy V10 or Summit V3, both also with re-ride. As you can see from my Auto-Signature I've got both. The 15m Summit V3 has a lot of spunk for a kite that size and turns more quickly than my 12m Peak2. Not surprising considering the AR differences between the two. The thing I've found, however, is the 15m Summit needs a fair amount of wind to launch, much more than the 12m Peak-2.

Good luck with your quest!

Is that what they call snow in Michigan? Pretty liberal use of the word IMO
We call that boilerplate or Hunter Mt over here...my teeth hurt watching
That 10 seemed alright you almost had a park and ride going but always buy more kites

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

Is that what they call snow in Michigan? Pretty liberal use of the word IMO We call that boilerplate or Hunter Mt over here...my teeth hurt watching That 10 seemed alright you almost had a park and ride going but always buy more kites

I'm in Manistique where it doesn't snow much at all. An hour north we can get 300+ inches in a season. Very very location dependent from lake effect off lake superior.

Usually my lake has maybe 6 inches of snow over the ice most of the winter, but last weekend it was in the 40's and rained so there was a lot of ice on top... not the best for skis.

What is a park and ride?

Quote: Originally posted by PHREERIDER

downwind you need alot of kite action and enough edge to keep lines tight, you have to use the whole window . heres a somewhat related vid , i'm on a land board but demos kite action and the back and forth edging to maintain tension ...lots of looping and high and low positions of kite action. maybe it'll help. most would consider downwind "running " a very balance dependent, as you are more up right falling from edge to edge as you go , like down hill ski actually https://vimeo.com/37769782

Awesome video, really illustrates the motion needed. Right now I'm thinking too much about flying the kite through turns to be able to turn my skis at the same time lol. I'll keep practicing.

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad   Thanks for the welcome. I guess this was a fairly typical "nice" day for the winter up here, especially getting later in the season. Typical forcast when it isn't nuking is in the 5-10mph, maybe 15 tops range. Went a front or other weather is moving through the area, it's in the 20-25+ range. Forcast for tomorrow is gusts up to 35mph for example. So not much in between the two ranges, it's either light or heavy. This is partly why I think the 10m may have been the wrong kite for me, because it's probably a little small for the light air days, and a little big for the 20's? Uploading some videos to youtube stand by... Glad to hear you are enjoying Snowkiting. I agree, total hoot. For winds in the 5-10 range you may want to take a gander at the 12m Flysurfer Peak-2. Particularly for the low end of that wind range. The P2 is a so-called single skin and as such will loft in extremely light wind and start tugging you along in just a little more. I hear you about the larger kites turning a little more slowly. A lot of us that have Access kites have the smaller sizes (4 and 6m) reserving them for really high wind days when we want rock solid stability. I've never flown a 10m Access but I suspect it is sort of "dead in bed". That "deadness""is quite welcome when it's nuking but probably a little too tame in lighter winds as would be appropriate with a 10m kite. You have the V6 Access so you know all about Re-Ride. I LOVE Re-Ride and wish all my DP kites had it. If you don't want to go the route of the Peaks then you could also consider a larger Frenzy V10 or Summit V3, both also with re-ride. As you can see from my Auto-Signature I've got both. The 15m Summit V3 has a lot of spunk for a kite that size and turns more quickly than my 12m Peak2. Not surprising considering the AR differences between the two. The thing I've found, however, is the 15m Summit needs a fair amount of wind to launch, much more than the 12m Peak-2. Good luck with your quest!

I actually have a HQ Montana 8 on the way now, picked up a 14m... the price was right. I might leave it in the bag for a while until it either snows more or I get more comfortable with kite handling.

The Access is definitely on the dead side, but mostly I've been fighting it in light winds, and I'm sure my handling is lacking in finesse.

I haven't needed to use the re-ride yet. I played with it and the safety systems first time I had it out, but it wasn't been windy enough to be needed. Today I just backed the kite down on it's trailing edge and it fell over and stayed there. I think it's gonna be a blessing when I'm landing in higher winds alone.

Welcome! Looks just like the stuff I ride in WI. A 14m foil would compliment your 10 nicely. The more experience you get, the more wind you will feel comfortable flying the same kite in.

Those look like the same volkl p30 ski's that I own. I used to use those as my primary ski's but found something with a larger turn radius worked much better on bare ice. Found them too carvy for my taste. Thanks for sharing your vids! Your well on your way into this addiction :D

Just a note of caution. I wrote about the Frenzy and Summit before I watched your video and saw that you are Snowkiting on a frozen lake. The thing about the Frenzy and Summit is that they have a lot more potential lift than the Access. That can be exactly what you want in soft snow, but could be a real Code Brown moment on ice. Easy to boost; tough to land. I'm a beginner too in the Snowkiting world and am only starting to boost. I try it a bit in soft Utah powder. I fall as many times as not at this point when trying to boost but it's no biggie in the soft stuff. I would not want to come down sprawling on the ice!

This reinforces my recommendation to take a gander at a 12m Peak-2. Lots of low wind grunt but not much lift unless you really try to do it.

I'm with Cheddar - consider skis with a longer turning radius for hard pack and ice. I ski soft snow in wide powder skis but hard stuff on actual DH skis with well turned edges. My DH skis are 218cm with a 50+m sidecut. When you "park and ride" you will want as little turning radius as you can get to hold a strong straight carve against the force of the kite.

BTW, Park and ride is when you've got a long straightaway and you "park" your kite for long periods of time in the front of the wind window and just cruise. You were actually pretty much doing it in your videos just didn't know it!

Practice practice practice. Uber cool that you can Snowkite out your back door!

Quote: Originally posted by Cheddarhead

Welcome! Looks just like the stuff I ride in WI. A 14m foil would compliment your 10 nicely. The more experience you get, the more wind you will feel comfortable flying the same kite in. Those look like the same volkl p30 ski's that I own. I used to use those as my primary ski's but found something with a larger turn radius worked much better on bare ice. Found them too carvy for my taste. Thanks for sharing your vids! Your well on your way into this addiction :D

Thanks! They're volkl P40's I scored from craigslist for $50 bucks with the bindings. They appeared to be almost new! I know they're 15 year old skis, but I feel kind of bad about riding them on ice. Luckily the ice surface isn't the norm around here. The P40's are a blast at the ski hill too!

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Just a note of caution. I wrote about the Frenzy and Summit before I watched your video and saw that you are Snowkiting on a frozen lake. The thing about the Frenzy and Summit is that they have a lot more potential lift than the Access. That can be exactly what you want in soft snow, but could be a real Code Brown moment on ice. Easy to boost; tough to land. I'm a beginner too in the Snowkiting world and am only starting to boost. I try it a bit in soft Utah powder. I fall as many times as not at this point when trying to boost but it's no biggie in the soft stuff. I would not want to come down sprawling on the ice! This reinforces my recommendation to take a gander at a 12m Peak-2. Lots of low wind grunt but not much lift unless you really try to do it. I'm with Cheddar - consider skis with a longer turning radius for hard pack and ice. I ski soft snow in wide powder skis but hard stuff on actual DH skis with well turned edges. My DH skis are 218cm with a 50+m sidecut. When you "park and ride" you will want as little turning radius as you can get to hold a strong straight carve against the force of the kite. BTW, Park and ride is when you've got a long straightaway and you "park" your kite for long periods of time in the front of the wind window and just cruise. You were actually pretty much doing it in your videos just didn't know it! Practice practice practice. Uber cool that you can Snowkite out your back door!

Yeah I'm a bit spoiled. Big shallow lake that I terrorize with my prindle 18 all summer :D

I'll look for another pair of skis for the #@%$#!tier conditions I guess. These volkls are more of a GS ski and have a fairly large carve radius, I had no problems keeping them on edge without turning on the ice, but it may still be less than ideal. The problem was I picked these up so cheap that anything else is junk in comparison and probably about the same price The guy I picked these up from also has a pair of atomic beta race 9.20 that were 200cm+, a little longer than these volkls. Might look into those as well.

I hear you on the lofty kites on ice. There were a couple of times when I put the kite a little higher than I should have without bleeding some apparent first, and felt myself getting lighter and struggling to keep an edge on. I really don't want to go sliding across that surface on my ass... The Montana I've got coming will be used with extreme caution, and probably won't come out until it snows again.

Thanks for the advice!

great choice on the montana 8 14M . its a really nice kite.

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck   Quote: Originally posted by Memopad   Thanks for the welcome. I guess this was a fairly typical "nice" day for the winter up here, especially getting later in the season. Typical forcast when it isn't nuking is in the 5-10mph, maybe 15 tops range. Went a front or other weather is moving through the area, it's in the 20-25+ range. Forcast for tomorrow is gusts up to 35mph for example. So not much in between the two ranges, it's either light or heavy. This is partly why I think the 10m may have been the wrong kite for me, because it's probably a little small for the light air days, and a little big for the 20's? Uploading some videos to youtube stand by... Glad to hear you are enjoying Snowkiting. I agree, total hoot. For winds in the 5-10 range you may want to take a gander at the 12m Flysurfer Peak-2. Particularly for the low end of that wind range. The P2 is a so-called single skin and as such will loft in extremely light wind and start tugging you along in just a little more. I hear you about the larger kites turning a little more slowly. A lot of us that have Access kites have the smaller sizes (4 and 6m) reserving them for really high wind days when we want rock solid stability. I've never flown a 10m Access but I suspect it is sort of "dead in bed". That "deadness""is quite welcome when it's nuking but probably a little too tame in lighter winds as would be appropriate with a 10m kite. You have the V6 Access so you know all about Re-Ride. I LOVE Re-Ride and wish all my DP kites had it. If you don't want to go the route of the Peaks then you could also consider a larger Frenzy V10 or Summit V3, both also with re-ride. As you can see from my Auto-Signature I've got both. The 15m Summit V3 has a lot of spunk for a kite that size and turns more quickly than my 12m Peak2. Not surprising considering the AR differences between the two. The thing I've found, however, is the 15m Summit needs a fair amount of wind to launch, much more than the 12m Peak-2. Good luck with your quest! I actually have a HQ Montana 8 on the way now, picked up a 14m... the price was right. I might leave it in the bag for a while until it either snows more or I get more comfortable with kite handling. The Access is definitely on the dead side, but mostly I've been fighting it in light winds, and I'm sure my handling is lacking in finesse. I haven't needed to use the re-ride yet. I played with it and the safety systems first time I had it out, but it wasn't been windy enough to be needed. Today I just backed the kite down on it's trailing edge and it fell over and stayed there. I think it's gonna be a blessing when I'm landing in higher winds alone.

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Quote: Originally posted by PHREERIDER   downwind you need alot of kite action and enough edge to keep lines tight, you have to use the whole window . heres a somewhat related vid , i'm on a land board but demos kite action and the back and forth edging to maintain tension ...lots of looping and high and low positions of kite action. maybe it'll help. most would consider downwind "running " a very balance dependent, as you are more up right falling from edge to edge as you go , like down hill ski actually https://vimeo.com/37769782 Awesome video, really illustrates the motion needed. Right now I'm thinking too much about flying the kite through turns to be able to turn my skis at the same time lol. I'll keep practicing.

falling off broad reach just abit with just a little kite action is easier starting element rather than blasting a loopy run! ...

actually sailed P16 for years before starting to kite as well, open ocean solo was a great education! keep at it !

Another kite handling question...

I've noticed that when I pull on the bar, the kite moves back in the window a little bit. When I'm trying to work as close to the wind as possible, do you let the kite move forward in the window (bar off) or keep it back with the bar and in more power?

And on turning the kite, I've noticed yanking on the bar made the kite turn faster, but I still have to ease the bar after the turn to keep it from stalling. Even using the bar, it's difficult to up or downloop the kite. Is the 10m access really this much of a dog, or am I expecting too much in light wind? Last time I was out, I had to reach forward and pull the break handle on one side or another to get the kite to complete a turn.

I always tell people to properly tune your kite when u pull in your bar the kite should power up but not to the point where it stalls or starts to come down out of the sky. And this is true no matter what wind speed is at the time. In lighter winds this can happen quicker than in stronger winds so u need to depower the kite a little more. Big kites in general are slow turners in lighter winds and sometimes u need to yank on the back lines or may be u have the kite depowered a little too much and the back lines are very loose. Its a delicate balance but minor adjustments on your depower trim strap will do the trick. Sometimes your kite Is just too small for the wind conditions and you need to put up a bigger kite if ure fighting to get power out of it.

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Another kite handling question... I've noticed that when I pull on the bar, the kite moves back in the window a little bit. When I'm trying to work as close to the wind as possible, do you let the kite move forward in the window (bar off) or keep it back with the bar and in more power? And on turning the kite, I've noticed yanking on the bar made the kite turn faster, but I still have to ease the bar after the turn to keep it from stalling. Even using the bar, it's difficult to up or downloop the kite. Is the 10m access really this much of a dog, or am I expecting too much in light wind? Last time I was out, I had to reach forward and pull the break handle on one side or another to get the kite to complete a turn.

you seem to notice more than me when im flying...i think most just fly and feel what to do while its happening..or i do anyway, and that feeling comes w/ time on the kite...pulling the bar in will generate more power and or stall the kite it depends when where and how you do it..its a finesse kinda thing.....your access is no dog it just needs more wind and it will light up and things will happen faster...great backyard btw

Sounds good, I'll keep at it for sure! I'm enjoying the heck out of it no matter whats going on, I'm just trying to shorten my learning curve with your help.

I'll try playing with the depower a little more. I had it pulled in a little bit, a couple of inches anyway so it wasn't at the stopper ball. I need one good session with a little more wind so I can play with the controls a bit and not have to try so hard just to keep the kite in the air.

It's blowing 30+ today, probably won't fly again until Sunday. Now I need it to snow some more so it's not so icy on the lake. Can't wait to get the Montana in the air and try it out!

Wish I had a pro nearby to take a lesson with! Went out again this afternoon. I actually waited a couple of hours because I felt the wind was too much for me. In hindsight I should've just gone for it because the wind I flew in was barely enough to move me on skis. There was a few inches of fresh snow over the ice, and it felt like I was being drug through concrete, takes a LOT more power to move through snow than ice lol. I'm continuing to have problems turning the kite and flying it around in the power zone. It just doesn't want to turn for #@%$#!. I literally have to reach up and grab the brake line and tug it to complete a turn without taking up the entire horizon. It was blowing probably 10mph when this was going on, and I played with the depower trim settings quite a bit trying to tweak things. When the depower was all the way on, the kite seemed to fly better, but the back lines were extremely slack and turning was even more difficult.

Things improved when the winds picked up, probably to around 15 or a little more in the gusts, hard to tell when you're cruising along. According to my GPS I hit 22mph. It was enough where I actually felt an increase in power as I pulled on the bar. Still didn't notice all that much change in pull as I trimmed the depower in and out. Turn rate is manageable at these winds, but still a LOT of work. I guess I should stop being scared of the kite and fly it when it's blowing 20mph+ because that seems to be where this 10m kite is happy.

The 14m Montana should be here Tuesday, and I'm hopeful it will be a blast in these 10-15mph winds.

Would line extensions on the 10m Access be of any help? I know it might dampen the turning even more, but if I can get a little more power out of the kite I think I'd be happier.

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Would line extensions on the 10m Access be of any help? I know it might dampen the turning even more, but if I can get a little more power out of the kite I think I'd be happier.

Sorry to hear you are finding the 10m Access a bit sluggish. I only have experience with a 6m Access in that series but it certainly does seem a lot more tame than some other kites of that size so it doesn't surprise me that it is behaving a bit that way. The 9m Frenzy has some pep in winds high enough to pull me through the snow.

I've added 5m extensions to my 12m Peak-2 to try and eek some extra power out of her. It does generate more power that way, but you guessed it, at the expense of handling. She most certainly slowed down even below her normal slug-bait pace. I fear the same for your 10m Access.

Pulling in the trim line at the cleat will decrease the kite's power and make it turn more slowly. The only time you really want that adjustment anywhere but all the way out is when you are getting overpowered and need to dial the kite back a bit. In those conditions you will likely welcome the slow turning nature of the kite.

If you are having to pull on the brake lines to get her to turn I suspect you are flying quite underpowered.

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad   Would line extensions on the 10m Access be of any help? I know it might dampen the turning even more, but if I can get a little more power out of the kite I think I'd be happier. Sorry to hear you are finding the 10m Access a bit sluggish. I only have experience with a 6m Access in that series but it certainly does seem a lot more tame than some other kites of that size so it doesn't surprise me that it is behaving a bit that way. The 9m Frenzy has some pep in winds high enough to pull me through the snow. I've added 5m extensions to my 12m Peak-2 to try and eek some extra power out of her. It does generate more power that way, but you guessed it, at the expense of handling. She most certainly slowed down even below her normal slug-bait pace. I fear the same for your 10m Access. Pulling in the trim line at the cleat will decrease the kite's power and make it turn more slowly. The only time you really want that adjustment anywhere but all the way out is when you are getting overpowered and need to dial the kite back a bit. In those conditions you will likely welcome the slow turning nature of the kite. If you are having to pull on the brake lines to get her to turn I suspect you are flying quite underpowered.

Yeah I think I'm just underpowered. I was playing with the trim line to try and balance out me pulling the bar in where it was more comfortable. I've noticed in the light air as I pull the bar I stall the kite, someone mentioned that using the trim line can counter-act the stall tendency.

trim in, (depowering ) to speed up things in light air. and also keeps bar a comfortable position when powered