Looking for advice! Snow kiting for 2 years now local spot is awesome conditions but generally low winds 6 to 10 MPH on any given day. I've seen it close to 20 average with gusts to 30 twice in 2 years. A great day maybe five times is steady 12 to 14 with gusts to the low 20's maybe 4 times. I've been up at least 40 times maybe more in all. I'm flying 11 m' s both lei and foil. I've been lofted twice. My first day long story and was caught by a rogue gust this year on the Frenzy and lofted about ten feet. It was on a turn and I had had several small lifts a couple of feet and was ready for it. Anyway to the point. One day in all that did I back off a little due to caution. Most of the. rest I was trying for "everything she's got Scotty!!!" I ready to step up! Part of the issue is my body size I'm a petite 220 lbs. I saw the link to the Pansh sale and checked reviews on the A15 (tempted) liquid force has a new single spar that they claim is an excellent low wind machine. Please any thoughts especially from experienced snow kiters'. I'm thinking 15 m . Help thoughts?

If you don't have a 5 line bar the A15 will need one. $$$

You could be right about sticking to just 15m? Personally I find my 19m is so big I get overpowered on apparent wind at a fat 135lbs.

Consider used Flysurfer Speed . Used Chrono's

Your Frenzy is the most all round powerful kite you have. In your weight range on a board, unless it's fairly firm conditions, you probably are spending a lot of energy just working the kites to keep powered. A 14-15m foil would be a great "goto" size for a Clydesdale class rider like yourself. Most kites in that range, like a Frenzy 15m, are geared toward exactly that. Though often confused with with being a light wind kite.

If you are short on funds the A15 is an option but also a bit of an unknown. It is a Pansh and there's a history of hit or miss with some of their offerings. Although most seem issues seem to be manageable if you are able to tweak your own stuff. The A15 for the most part seems pretty good. Though nobody knows for sure and there will be almost no resale value in it if you decide to upgrade later.

If the objective is solely snow use, I wouldn't bother with the LEI. Pumping and less performance in light winds doesn't make sense. Your average foil is better in light winds than a dedicated light wind LEI.


There's a 12m Ranger in the for sale section for $200. If you want hybrid Clydesdale/light wind performance that kite, once modded, has it.

Definitely get a foil. While the large LW LEIs have evolved a lot over the last few years and they do beat the average foil, they are still LEIs and imo not really suited for snow. Pumping them up in the cold, the additional wear and tear + the problems operating them alone, especially in light winds really aren't worth it.

Quote: Originally posted by UnknownAX

Definitely get a foil. While the large LW LEIs have evolved a lot over the last few years and they do beat the average foil

Sorry but I gotta disagree. At best some can match the performance. Apples to apples an 14m LEI isn't going to perform like a 14m Frenzy. The P/A isn't there.

And in comparison of a higher AR lightwind focused foil vs. LEI there isn't much of a comparison.

Thanks for the input Chris. Couple of questions P/A ? And what mods would you do to the charger?

Projected area. Fabric in the wind. An arc shaped kite might have lots of surface area but much of it isn't able to catch the wind. A kite with a flatter profile will have a larger percentage of surface area in the wind.

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd

Quote: Originally posted by UnknownAX   Definitely get a foil. While the large LW LEIs have evolved a lot over the last few years and they do beat the average foil Sorry but I gotta disagree. At best some can match the performance. Apples to apples an 14m LEI isn't going to perform like a 14m Frenzy. The P/A isn't there. And in comparison of a higher AR lightwind focused foil vs. LEI there isn't much of a comparison.

Oh, I think I misunderstood what you were saying. My point was that a big 18m LW lei will beat an average size average performance foil kite (say a 11m Frenzy) on snow.

Foils of course have more oomph per A since the projected area is larger. Same projected area LEI vs foil would be a more interesting conparison, but I think we're getting a bit off-topic here...:D

I'll put a standard plug in for the 15m and 18m HQ Matrixx II as great light wind options. Both do really well in 6-10mph. Really stable and easy going as well as having great lift.

I've also been really impressed with the new Montana 9's - they have a lot of turn and lift and are pretty sporty even in the larger sizes. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised with the 14m if you had a chance to demo it.

Where exactly do you live, and how gusty is it typically in those lower winds?

Bah! UnknownAxe, I understand. Makes sense when you put that way.:D

Anthony, not the Charger, the Ranger. Different kind of "errrrr". The old Ranger, like many kites from that time period, had a shload of power for a given size. Bar pressure is a little high by today's standards but not terrible. Out of the bag it flew pretty bad. went to market before it was done. We came up with some mods that improved it considerably. There's gotta be a thread here somewhere (Cue Sam).

The 12m is a machine. The only thing it really lacks is a decent safety although it would be simple enough to devise a front line flag out and really improve the usability of the thing.

For $200 bucks it's a hell of a lot of kite. The modes are simple, essentially some pigtails and I forget what else. 4.5 line safety which is easy. Really the easiest rout is to simply fly it on the bar and lines from your Frenzy. (if you don't have a 5th line). It's only 1m bigger, but it has grunt like a modern 14m. Easily as grunty as a Frenzy V10 but much faster turning in light winds.

Sam must be asleep at the wheel!!!

Try this....

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=9390

Quote: Originally posted by nate76

I'll put a standard plug in for the 15m and 18m HQ Matrixx II as great light wind options. Both do really well in 6-10mph. Really stable as and easy going as well has having great lift. I've also been really impressed with the new Montana 9's - they have a lot of turn and lift and are pretty sporty even in the larger sizes. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised with the 14m if you had a chance to demo it. Where exactly do you live, and how gusty is it typically in those lower winds?

Hi Nate. My backyard is the Grand Mesa near Junction. Average alt 10500 and miles of snow covered fields with no trees right now we have a foot and a half of powder winds tend to gust at most 10 MPH over the steady. Great beginners area just not the strong winds you'd think it would have.

We've sold some kites in that area. That place seems to get a pretty killer long season. Looks like you're gonna get that this season as well.:D

Hey Anthony- You've got some great kite areas over there! I was just over to Snow Mesa (about 50 miles South of Gunnison) a couple weeks ago with a buddy, and had a blast. Views from on top of that Mesa were surreal since it sits at 12,000 ft. Had an amazing two days there. The 1st day was light winds like you're talking about. I actually hiked my 19m Zeekai in for the 1st day and had a blast with it in the low winds. The 2nd day was quite a bit stronger so I spent most of the day on a 5.5m kite.

If you ever find yourself out this way (Colorado Springs) and want to demo any of the HQ gear, just let me know and we'll make it happen. Otherwise, we should keep in touch; I'm actually considering a trip back to Snow Mesa over Memorial day if the snow pack holds that long. Always looking for other folks to share the stoke with out here in CO!

Nate


Enjoying the Scenery at Snow Mesa. What a view up there.

Quote: Originally posted by nate76

Hey Anthony- You've got some great kite areas over there! I was just over to Snow Mesa (about 50 miles South of Gunnison) a couple weeks ago with a buddy, and had a blast. Views from on top of that Mesa were surreal since it sits at 12,000 ft. Had an amazing two days there. The 1st day was light winds like you're talking about. I actually hiked my 19m Zeekai in for the 1st day and had a blast with it in the low winds. The 2nd day was quite a bit stronger so I spent most of the day on a 5.5m kite. If you ever find yourself out this way (Colorado Springs) and want to demo any of the HQ gear, just let me know and we'll make it happen. Otherwise, we should keep in touch; I'm actually considering a trip back to Snow Mesa over Memorial day if the snow pack holds that long. Always looking for other folks to share the stoke with out here in CO! Nate Enjoying the Scenery at Snow Mesa. What a view up there.

Looks like a spectacular locale! I'd love to visit someday. This immediately passed season (passed at least, it seems, in Park City, UT) was my first as a snowkiter. In future years I hope to spread my wings a bit and get to some more far slung places. Beautiful picture BTW!

Windstruck - I think you're going to love the snow. You've got some great places right down the road from you. Have you been to Strawberry Reservoir yet? I never made it there when I lived in UT, but it looks awesome.

Quote: Originally posted by nate76

Windstruck - I think you're going to love the snow. You've got some great places right down the road from you. Have you been to Strawberry Reservoir yet? I never made it there when I lived in UT, but it looks awesome.

Agreed Nate, Strawberry does look awesome. Sadly, I didn't make it there this past winter. My free time is pretty much (happily) taken up doing family things. For me, Snowkiting is a solo event so my sessions are local around 10 minute from home. Strawberry is probably 45-60 minute drive for me so most of my kiting time would be sucked dry just driving.

I just spoke today with a good friend that lives on the side of Pikes Peak down near Colorado Springs. He said they had two new feet of snow on the ground. I hope you guys are getting some of that sweetness!

Wow another great day. Once again the conditions on Grand Mesa were excellent. Almost a foot and half of fresh just last Sunday and today the conditions were perfect. But sadly was caught by that demon no should I say devil (little to No wind) laid down about 3 miles of tracks but was wishing for more. Thanks for the advice on the Ranger I think I'm going for it. And Windstruck we need to meet up and hit Skyline the vids look incredible.

Quote: Originally posted by Anthonyshopguy

Wow another great day. Once again the conditions on Grand Mesa were excellent. Almost a foot and half of fresh just last Sunday and today the conditions were perfect. But sadly was caught by that demon no should I say devil (little to No wind) laid down about 3 miles of tracks but was wishing for more. Thanks for the advice on the Ranger I think I'm going for it. And Windstruck we need to meet up and hit Skyline the vids look incredible.

Agreed 100% Both Skyline and Strawberry are on my absolute must-kite lists for next winter!

http://sanpete.com/pages/snowkiting

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd

Your Frenzy is the most all round powerful kite you have. In your weight range on a board, unless it's fairly firm conditions, you probably are spending a lot of energy just working the kites to keep powered. A 14-15m foil would be a great "goto" size for a Clydesdale class rider like yourself. Most kites in that range, like a Frenzy 15m, are geared toward exactly that. Though often confused with with being a light wind kite. If you are short on funds the A15 is an option but also a bit of an unknown. It is a Pansh and there's a history of hit or miss with some of their offerings. Although most seem issues seem to be manageable if you are able to tweak your own stuff. The A15 for the most part seems pretty good. Though nobody knows for sure and there will be almost no resale value in it if you decide to upgrade later. If the objective is solely snow use, I wouldn't bother with the LEI. Pumping and less performance in light winds doesn't make sense. Your average foil is better in light winds than a dedicated light wind LEI. There's a 12m Ranger in the for sale section for $200. If you want hybrid Clydesdale/light wind performance that kite, once modded, has it.

It's in the mail, I'm reading up on the mods now. Went up yesterday 10 inches of fresh got to love it. Poor waxing on my board resulted in lots of sticking snow and slow to no speed. Waxing this morning and giving it another go at noon today. Need that bigger kite.:frog:

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Quote: Originally posted by Anthonyshopguy   Wow another great day. Once again the conditions on Grand Mesa were excellent. Almost a foot and half of fresh just last Sunday and today the conditions were perfect. But sadly was caught by that demon no should I say devil (little to No wind) laid down about 3 miles of tracks but was wishing for more. Thanks for the advice on the Ranger I think I'm going for it. And Windstruck we need to meet up and hit Skyline the vids look incredible. Agreed 100% Both Skyline and Strawberry are on my absolute must-kite lists for next winter! http://sanpete.com/pages/snowkiting

Tks for the link I had general idea where it was but not exactly.:duh:

Quote: Originally posted by nate76

Hey Anthony- You've got some great kite areas over there! I was just over to Snow Mesa (about 50 miles South of Gunnison) a couple weeks ago with a buddy, and had a blast. Views from on top of that Mesa were surreal since it sits at 12,000 ft. Had an amazing two days there. The 1st day was light winds like you're talking about. I actually hiked my 19m Zeekai in for the 1st day and had a blast with it in the low winds. The 2nd day was quite a bit stronger so I spent most of the day on a 5.5m kite. If you ever find yourself out this way (Colorado Springs) and want to demo any of the HQ gear, just let me know and we'll make it happen. Otherwise, we should keep in touch; I'm actually considering a trip back to Snow Mesa over Memorial day if the snow pack holds that long. Always looking for other folks to share the stoke with out here in CO! Nate Enjoying the Scenery at Snow Mesa. What a view up there.

Hey Nate where exactly is Snow Mesa and how can you access it. Car, hike, or snowmobile?

It's here the none answer to getting bigger. I went for the Ranger slingshot 12m that was posted for sale on the sale forum. I need BIGGER. The conditions today were nuts miles and miles of untouched 12" of heavy wet snow. Board waxed and ready. YES. New The Ranger is here. Yeh. Did most of the mods suggested on this forum. Oh did I mention the wind. FSSSSSSSSS that's the sound of my excitement escaping Yeh once again maybe 6 to 7 MPH. The Ranger is definitely big. But that is about it. Yes it does have tremendous power. Even in these poor winds If I could get a good power dive it MOVED me quickly and strong. That is the end of the good news. Wing tuck no try wing fold, I could barely pull a loop without the kite powering into the ground with everything I could do to turn it. I started out with the power lines very extended per the mods on this site. Kite was in full stall through almost all of the power throw. That did not work. Shortened the power lines kite flew better but still was plagued with over flying, sever wing tuck and incredibly poor turning (looping). Not to mention the leash hooking on on top of the bar what a farce. I'm going to fix that tonight by running a 4.5 line through the depower stopper, bar, and hooking it way up front by the power line connections. Keep you updated Please any suggestions. I want to be safe but need something to work in these low winds we're plagued with.:puzzled::puzzled::puzzled::puzzled::puzzled::puzzled:

I don't know anything about the ranger but I wouldn't expect any good session in 6 or 7 mph without having a huge flysurfer speed in light material. I've not flown one but by most accounts, a big speed or maybe a 12m peak is the goto for winds under 10

Edit: maybe one of the large matrixx or zeekai?? I didn't want to be brand specific. Also light wind is tedious and spending a lot of time under your wing And understanding exactly what it likes and doesn't like go a long way as well.

Got a chance to try the Montana 8m at IBX wish I had spent more time on it or a bigger one. But for the most part we had WIND there. The Zeekai would have to wait for next year to much dinero! Have you flown the matrixx? I have a fellow kiter that has sold me a fair amount of cast off stuff. He swears by light weight Lei's in the 15m to 17m range. I like the speed with which I can throw a foil into the air. Pumping sucks and sucks even more when it is very cold!!!!! As it does here in the Rockies once in a while.