For as often as the subject comes up, I was surprised to do a search on Google and not get any hits for pkf. I did a search on pkf and still had mixed results. I figured it would be good to try and consolidate the light wind wisdom and opinions.

I define light wind as anything below 10. How does everyone else define light wind and what are you using? There are the usual suspects large closed cell, large single skins. But what about the less talked bout kites like lei in light fabric or a frenzy in light fabric? Just examples. It would be nice to compile a list with of light wind kites with pros and cons.

Also (for new people reading) it's important to understand skill and ability are just as important as gear for light wind success.

*Light Wind Defined: (based on answers)

Ultra light wind: 5 and below

Light wind: Below 10

With 10 mph, there are lots of kites that can give you a ride on land. For me, true light wind is below 5 mph. Nothing can make power in that better than a large fixed bridle kite. How low you go with the wind and how much power do you want dictates how large you have to go.

It's tough without really narrowing it down. "Light Wind" definition is with such a broad range or variables. What are you riding? Are we talking static or moving? Surface? Air Temp? etc...

In my limited experience even "Light wind" LEIs, 17m etc.. don't come close to performance of most foils. Though I have only got experience with traditional designs and none with Strutless or single strut types.

UL versions of kites like the Frenzy and Summit are considerably better in lights winds compared to non-UL versions. Although the idea of going to UL versions on those kites is more about pack ability rather than light wind. Though they are easier to launch and more nimble in light wind.

Matrixx 2 is a great light wind rig. Matrixx 1 did pretty well in light winds too IMO. 12m Ranger. 11m Flexifoil Sabre 1. Unlike a lot of non UL fabric kites in the 10m+ range. They seemed pretty good at overcoming the weight and performing well. Much Chronos, R1's and Sonics do today.

In terms of non-UL not specific light wind rigs, fixed bridles are probably the most common top performers I would bet. Like Vapors, Yakuzas etc...?

Nice topic Sean. An issue many of us deal with (I know you and I both do) in the quest for suitable sub-10 mph strong traction generation kites is the quality and consistency of the wind. Light, beautiful, laminar flowing breezes coming off large bodies of water or out in the desert are sublime with the big kites (my personal experience being limited to date to 12m Peak2, 15m Summit and 10/12.5m NS3s) but the winds I get in the Utah mountains (insert here Indiana fields, etc.) are generally really inconsistent when this light, often dropping out to nothing or near nothing, only to surge again to, gulp, 6-8 mph.

In the light inland Jank I've found my 12m Peak2 a more satisfying weapon than either my large Summit or NS3s. The Summit is hard to get off the ground in light surface winds and will fall out of the sky during the lulls despite my best efforts at keeping things going (I'm sure there is a lot more I could be doing skill wise). The NS3 is easier to get off the ground but will backstall in the lulls and also seems to weigh too much at times to stay afloat.

With the 12m Peak2 I find I can get it into the air with very little wind and with the bar out get it to climb high in the wind window on a few breaths of wind. When moving and the wind dies I find I can get the kite to often stay afloat with the bar all the way out. I've come to a stop mind you as the kite really doesn't provide traction in these settings, but hey, the kite is in the air, and I can usually just sort of hoover the kite and futz around with it waiting for the next 6-8 mph gale to roll in.

I've been secretly hoping that Flysurfer will come out with a 15+ meter Peak someday, maybe a Peak3!

One final comment, is at least for the 12.5m NS3, it is a lot of kite attached to just two power lines when the wind unexpectedly comes up. I've had a couple near dangerous moments in my buggy with the Big Fella up in the air and start to get pulled sideways towards soccer goalposts, etc at just the wrong times.

Okay, to be more specific, I'm talking about kites for traction, not static. I'm also referring to land based traction since that is what this site mainly focuses on but definitely not limited to that since any kites used on water can also be used on land.

FWIW, my perception of light wind is different than some/most since it's almost solely based on inland wind and riding on a high resistance surface (thick grass)

These factors make the goto large fixed bridle kite worthless for anyone that has at least one of these 2 factors in play. Inconsistent light wind OR high resistance surface. You can take away either of those factors and most likely be able to get away with a large fixed bridle.

Having done a few land kite disciplines (at least some experience), I don't think discipline makes much difference for kite choice for light wind. The only difference is surface conditions. For example, fast skiing surface conditions would be comparable to low resistance buggy surface conditions such as hardpack, asphalt etc. requiring similar power. Yes, there are other factors for kite choice for different disciplines but generally you can adequately use the same kites successfully across most disciplines on land.

@Feyd, that's good insight I didn't previously know on the ul traditional foils. I thought ul was probably for light wind. Portability didn't even cross my mind.

I'm not looking for a light wind kite myself because I've decided that I'll find something else to do if it's not windy, but I thought it would be nice to have a thread to refer people to with a collection of what most people find effective for light wind and the enviroments and they find them useful in. Also, just gives those of us that aren't at jibe something else to think about. :P

My Frenzy 13M UL is a wonderful light wind kite. The UL version floats and keeps it's shape in the lulls and needs very little wind to power my buggy in sand. Great depower range for me (7or8 mph to over 15 mph). Very friendly kite!

10.3 m PKD Combat you could buggy with it, but you would have to get it up and run to the buggy. https://vimeo.com/38891773

8.6 PL Reactor II in 6 mph winds https://vimeo.com/14972687

I know not many folks have had a chance to try them, but the HQ Zeekai really changed my lightwind riding expectations this last season. I never bothered to pull out my Matrixx II this winter (my former favorite LW kite) , just because the Zeekai is so quick to lay out and pack up, and so much fun to horse around on. It will go up in next to no wind and the hangtime is incredible.

11m vapor
perfect combo of weight and size for near nothing wind

I'm with Bob on the light wind gauge. 3-5 (and like Windstruck say's gusting to a whopping 8mph) in my circles is light wind.

Some people won't bother with less than 10-12 mph.

On clean ice with a 18m Chrono 1 and 40m lines, you can get cruising about 10-15mph in wind you can barely feel on your face. But that's more a novelty or just to get your fix. It's not much fun some days but it's still better than not flying at all. :P

I think I define light wind the simlarly. I say 10 or less because when I have 10 or less wind than it is accompanied by frequent lulls ranging from 0 and everything between. That coupled with thick grass and not having a true light wind wing means I don't even try it. Unless my wind direction is such that I can ride my asphalt road spot.

However I have no need for another kite. If wind is in that range I can use my 6m peak on handles or 5.5m nasa star and ride the longboard or the short board to shed a little more weight.

Adding an asphalt / skate discipline was like adding another kite or 2 to my quiver.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

I think I define light wind the simlarly. I say 10 or less because when I have 10 or less wind than it is accompanied by frequent lulls ranging from 0 and everything between. That coupled with thick grass and not having a true light wind wing means I don't even try it. Unless my wind direction is such that I can ride my asphalt road spot. However I have no need for another kite. If wind is in that range I can use my 6m peak on handles or 5.5m nasa star and ride the longboard or the short board to shed a little more weight. Adding an asphalt / skate discipline was like adding another kite or 2 to my quiver.

Those are really good points. Decrease rolling resistance versus increasing kite size (and cash outlay) to infinity. I've got thoughts along that line, viz., skating on asphalt parking lots with Metropolis SUV wheel and frame sets on my skates, a Peak2 in the air, and handles with 5m lines in my hands. Whupp!

For us 10mph is a decent day! About the time I think about sizing down to my 15m Syn'. Low wind is more like 5mph and less. Clean wind though.

Surface and space dictate what kites I can use for low winds. On the beach or on fast snow my 19m SA works well on apparent winds. In our small parks the 19 doesn't have room to shine. My 18m Phantom consistently impresses me with it's low end. It is getting so I only need about 4 or 5 mph to make it work once properly inflated.

Iflykites is getting some decent low wind performance with his 12m Peak 2. A good kite for our small spaces.

3-8mph???, hang w/ the family, work on the house, go beer shopping
Really if you can't get moving w/ a 4.9 Blade in a bug is it worth it???
I would like the 6m...had the 8.3 but its just not me

What's on your feet is as important as what you have in the air in some cases. Different skis for different conditions. Or different wheels if that's you r mode of transport. Either way, a dramatic affect on what makes a light wind kite light wind capable.

But then maybe this is too much detail.

I think at double digits it changes to no longer be a condition of 'light winds'....so I might concur.

If I were to make up something more specific, I might concoct that from 5 or 6mph to 9mph(or less than 10)mph is 'light wind', and from 1-4 or 5 is very light . I save 0 as being 'no wind'. (this is definitely too much detail!!)

Of course I admittedly still streeeeetch the term 'no wind' in casual kite conversation to mean 0 to 5 mph or whatever situation where I can't be pulled and mobile with the a kite from my quiver . Example: " Yeah, There was no wind to ride today, even though it was perfectly onshore. Be nice to have a big Reactor or Vapor to ride today."


Though above is my perspective based on what's on my feet or under me, and surfaces typical to me.......others, clearly, will have different number ranges equating to their definition of 'light
wind' .

Altogether different modes of transport and surfaces....say using ice skates on glare ice vs buggy on sand changes things- the ability to ride(and speed)- but I would generally still stick with my use of the terms and their perspective ranges, especially to those in my kite group who know me and my quiver.

My experience and observation makes note of some single skins ability to do well in light winds without being as big-or as heavy- as bigger foils.

Best light wind kites?

Well.....Single skins and comparatively larger foils do very well.

Some specific candidates:
Peak 9m. and 12m.
PL Vapor or Ozone Yakuza 10m to 17m
NPW 10m-15m
?...
?...

Maybe the question is "What is the best light wind kite in your quiver?

Here's another question:
What is 'low wind'?......

Good points all around

Skim you are correct. "What is the best light wind kite in your quiver" probably should have been the title. I just think it's interesting to see what others enjoy using given their location.

I still say discipline only plays a small role. You can boil everything down to smooth / not smooth wind and Fast / slow / or not ride-able surface regardless of discipline and one could argue that similar power and kite type will be needed at a given location. edit: rider / vehicle weight as well.

That's why this is an all inclusive thread A lot of times a thread starts off with "What's a good kite for (discipline)"

Also, I've edited my first post to include the definition of light wind based on responses.

Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob

With 10 mph, there are lots of kites that can give you a ride on land. For me, true light wind is below 5 mph. Nothing can make power in that better than a large fixed bridle kite. How low you go with the wind and how much power do you want dictates how large you have to go.

What size do you consider large ??

Oooo good question.

12m Venom 2 is not like a 12m Vapor. :D

Quote:

3-8mph???, hang w/ the family, work on the house, go beer shopping

I don't know man, I'm kind of with Chris and Bob. I've had a lot of fun in those kind of winds this winter. But maybe I'm just easily amused


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt7hzlpmEOw

Quote: Originally posted by WELDNGOD

8.6 PL Reactor II in 6 mph winds https://vimeo.com/14972687

And that demonstrates the difference between low wind on the coast or the playa and inland.
I have had an 8.6m Reactor II for years and feel like I have never gotten a good session on it due to "Janky" wind changes.
By contrast the 8.5m Blade IV that I have has become my goto kite in that second tier [5 -10 mph] wind range. The tip to tip cross bridling does wonders for helping it to keep its shape and hold the low winds. This is definitely a "horses for courses" kite though, Proletariat tried for a year and half to get comfortable with this kite on a board and never did, he feels it is too lifty.

blaring sun and pow w/ 19m overhead...sure, i agree that would be an amusing day

For the very light winds [0 -5mph] it is definitely a matter of what that light wind is doing, steady 5 or "averaging" 5 and how dry & hard my grass field is [gotta find a new one now but that is a different discussion ].

I have had some great session on my KM4 12m on 30m lines, that will power through all sorts of rough grass and absorb massive amounts of wind speed delta along with the maneuverability to "absorb" wind direction changes.

As others have said the challenge with big FBs [10m & 12m] in these winds is getting them inflated and launched to take advantage of the "higher" winds above the ground and the apparent wind when moving.
They are blurring in my mind right now as to which is which [got all three at about the same time and have used all three about the same amount] but I have had reasonable luck with my 10m/ 12m Blaze, Ace and First from the everybodies favorite maker of knockoffs.

A tangential discussion but line length makes a world of difference at these speeds. I learned the hard way that anything over 8m needs to be on 27 or 30m lines so it can be maneuvered in the wind since at these speeds the apex of your wind window is only 45 degrees off of the deck.

Another dark secret that never gets discussed is what your altitude above sea level is. I have heard anecdotal evidence that 20 -30% of your kite power is lost going from sea level to mile high [no pot jokes please].

Too many answers to your original question.
Only answer that was the closest was the biggest kite in your collection.
Line leingth is a major influence on low/no wind buggy riding.

This topic of what is low wind is as old as the kite itself. Clean wind/janky wind, it's all old news. Long lines/short lines.
Of all the sizes I have owned, and all the places I have flown, and all leingths of lines, I have found it is all dependent on skill and desire. One thing I have found that is not talked about here is the fact that after you get above the top of the trees/buildings/ obstacles, the wind is much more clean than you would know. Nobody flys up in the clean air because 30m lines don't get there. Whether you're at the beach, or a dry lake bed, or the middle of a field, the wind on the ground can be lousy to nonexistent. Once you get up above the ground, there is wind. And most of it is clean. But then clean is a relative term also.

I fly a 15m NPW on long or short lines, a 13m Century on both long or short lines in zero to 18mph winds and buggy while others sit and wait.
A 8m on long lines in zero wind is quite doable also. I have found if the wind I'd not clean all I need to do is increase the kite speed through the window to help reduce the "janky" wind effects.
Most of my experience comes from watching others and trying something different. I'm not afraid to push the envelope and do most of the time I'm playing. I am 230lbs and the buggy is over 100lbs so what size works for me would be to much for a person who weighs 150lbs with a 30lbs PL buggy. Bigfoots compared to barrows/grass to dry lake bed changes things again.

But the question still remains, what is low wind.

@cerebite, I hadn't thought about altitude. Looks like I'm 800' above sea level

@bigkid, I had forgot about line length. all I've played with so far is a ns2 7m on 40m lines which helped a little but not as much as I thought. (only tried once briefly so probably need to try that again) Also, I have 3m extensions on my stock flysurfer lines so I've been flying a total of 25 lines on the 9m. I know what you mean about clean air up high from single line flying. I used to semi frequently fly single line and there always reached a height where the wind would settle and strengthen keeping the kite totally stable as opposed to the first 100' or so. I usually flew 300' line and I would notice it starting to smooth out at around 100' (only guessing). So with the kite flying at an angle next to your, you would need around 90m of line to be cruising with the kite around 100' off the ground (give or take, I just did some rough math). My point is I understand where your coming from, most of us are flying under the good stuff even if it is for practical reasons.

Quote:

Another dark secret that never gets discussed is what your altitude above sea level is. I have heard anecdotal evidence that 20 -30% of your kite power is lost going from sea level to mile high [no pot jokes please].

@cerebite, You're right, the air density at 6,000ft vs sea level is about 20% less for a given temperature.

One thing to remember though is that most wind meters we use for kiting measure the wind speed the kite "feels" (sometimes called indicated airspeed). So If you're flying your kite at 12,000ft and your wind meter says its blowing 15mph, that is probably what it feels like to the kite (and you) as well.

Your speed across the ground will likely feel faster though.

Altitude and/or air tempnboth can have dramatic affect on kite performance. 30kts in 80f is not the same as 30kt in -20f.

IMHO light wind is everything under 10mph. As an inland flyer, 9mph and under basically means that the gusts get up to 9-10mph, but usually the windspeed hangs out around ZERO to 5-6mph. I do agree with the common theme that FB foils have a tendency to do better in lighter wind and used to have A LOT of good sessions with my 8.6m PL Reactor II. It was small enough to sling around, but big enough to do a great job in the sub 10mph poop wind that is so common in north GA. Something about it had that combination of stability, upwind ability and awesomeness that just worked really well for me. But I had to trade in for the Nasa Stars...

For me now, I do pretty well with my 10m Nasa Star 3. I am at JIBE this week and have not experienced a sub 10mph sea breeze, but expect it would do a bang up job. We did have a day with some sub 10mph off shore crud and the 10m performed well, but the gust factor almost bit me, so I called it a day.

I loves My Nasa Stars, esp after this week at JIBE. I've never felt more in control of my buggying!

Light wind for me is 2-7 mph ( 3-12kph) and a closed cell fixed bridle works best because they stay inflated if lulls put them on the ground . My Quadrifoil KiteSurfer XXXL comes alive at 4mph but the XXL is usually my go to kite because janky Prairie low winds usually mean 2-12 mph and the XXXL is pulling me sideways at 10 mph.