or North American Buggy Group NABA or NABG? Suggestions?

I think it is time for us to seriously consider organizing ourselves as a group, to get insurance, keep safety records, promote, and in general help each other as a cohesive whole.

I want to open the dialog about this topic, and then have a discussion one of the nights we are together, see if there is enough consensus to make this a reality.

Comments?

aoxomoxoa

Interested, would it include us Canucks?

Count me in. Let me know if I can help in any way.

Susan

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PKD Brooza's 2, 3, 4 and 5.5 meter
Libre V-max and big foot light V-max buggys
Nasa wings

This is just a personal opinion, alliance would be a good word for the end, and I say end because I am gonna bring up that I and others will say, What about the others?" so I am sure "traction sports" or like-wise will be brought up. I can't say for sure there what I think, but "Group" or "Alliance" I think conveys what we represent the best.

I say "Alliance" because it represents what we want, if this is indeed what we want,no? Assuming we do want this, then we are allies looking for allies right?
The dictionary defines alliance in many ways, such as
-A formal agreement establishing such an association, especially an international treaty of friendship.

notice the mention of association,which to me has always sounded commercial, with the friendship tie-in?

-A connection based on kinship, marriage, or common interest; a bond or tie

Again, kinship,bonds and ties, things I've all read about here though I've never met you guys.

-The act of becoming allied or the condition of being allied:
Something the alliance will need to do with government and each other, to maintain a playground for the furutre generations.

But one thing about a "Group", "Alliance,"Association", or what-have-you.....

"Union may be strength, but it is mere blind brute strength unless wisely directed"- Samuel Butler

Without a strong leader this is all moot.

So whether it be North American Buggy Alliance or American Wind Traction Alliance, My two cents worth is going in the "Alliance" coffer.

P.S. I won't be able to camp most likely, so getting this off now.

The concept sounds solid, the potential benifits could be very postive for everyone involve.

I do not think that you need to worry about name infringement but you might consider the associated organizations with similar or identical acronyms.

NAKA: North American Buggy Association is also:
North American Butterfly Association
National Adult Baseball Association
National Association of Black Accountants
North American Broadcasters Association
National Association of Buyers Agents
NABA Radio 93.1fm
North American Boxing Association
North American Bullriding Association
Native American Business Alliance
National Association Breweriana Advertising, Beer Advertisers!

NABG: North American Buggy Group is also:
Netherlands-American Business Group of New England

NAKB: North American Kite Buggy is also:
General Netherlands Inspection Service of Woody Nursery Stock (How, I do not know - can't speak Dutch???)

NAKBA: North American Kite Buggy Association is also:
NAKBA (cataclysm): Organization dedicated to the commemoration of the capital events in Palestine history

NABE: North American Buggy Enthusiast is also:
National Association for Bilingual Education
National Association for Business Economics

NAKBE North American Kite Buggy Enthusiasts
Nakbe: is a ancient Mayan city

BENA: Buggy Enthusiast of North America (Better then Beano I guess!)

KBANA: Kite Buggy Association of North America (Acronym at least has a ‘ring’ to it – just don’t ever merge with the Kiting Organization and Promotional Association! Then it would become the KOPA KABANA!

Just some random thoughts.....

I'm leaning towards something that encompasses all kite traction, so am not wedded to the buggy term. It's just the name we have now, and a starting place.

How many people even realize that it is homage to George Po#@%$#!? Worthy, no doubt, but it may not convey that which we are about.

So, to sum up: Wind, Kites, Traction, sharing of the knowledge and art as well as the strength through union.

and of course, that nasty of nastiness, insurance.

Keep this discussion going, so far, very lively and productive.

muchaoxo~!

Here's 1 cent...

NATSA

North American Traction Sports Association (or Alliance)

Here's another...

NATSS

North American Traction Sports Society

And one more...

No matter what it's called, all of the various traction sports need to be included. The more members a group has, the more power they can muster.

Just my 3 cents worth.

Desert Drew

North American Kite Traction Association

suggested by a moose.....

oxo

Are we including kite surfers also. I think the more we can get to join the group the better when it comes to getting insurance.

Susan

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PKD Brooza's 2, 3, 4 and 5.5 meter
Libre V-max and big foot light V-max buggys
Nasa wings

Any wisdom in joining our group to any pre-existing surf type of association?

It is about time..... Call it what you will just call it. In the past we tagged along with other kite groups for insurance and guidance, but these groups did not always operate in our best inerest. Now is the time for us to stand on our on feet and organize. A democatic group with leaders that look out for our intersts.
I would hope these officials could be elected by the membership of this group. A board of directors, President, Vice President, Secretary, treasurer etc etc, will be needed I suppose. The more buggiers involved, the better the representation of all of us will be. This will be a great thing for buggiers and I am totally excited that we are finally heading toward that goal, representation.....
Call it what you will, I want to help.
Jon Ellis

Quote:

Originally posted by Pablo Any wisdom in joining our group to any pre-existing surf type of association?

Even better and *more* inclusive is joining up with a pre-existing kite association!! Ya!!

(where does it stop?)

Steve

Rabble Rouser!!!

Quote:

Originally posted by geokite Quote: Originally posted by Pablo Any wisdom in joining our group to any pre-existing surf type of association? Even better and *more* inclusive is joining up with a pre-existing kite association!! Ya!! (where does it stop?) Steve

I nominate Jon Ellis as El Presidente...........................aj

Okay, so now that this is all being thrown back on the table, can it work this time?

We've been here before, folks, and we had a "Traction Committee" on the AKA, which went nowhere, accomplished nothing on the insurance issue, and degenerated into arguments over racing versus non-racing, rules versus no rules, and generally ignored most other traction kiting forms (or did they ignore us?). Territorial squabbles, event location and rules squabbles, semantics squabbles... divided, we fell.

This will take some serious commitment from people who don't work a 40-60 hour week and can spare the time and energy to do the "footwork", compile the documents, disseminate information, track enrollment and memberships, handle the cash involved, facilitate web space and keep it current, and on and on and on...

I believe this DOES need to happen, and that access and exclusion issues will become more and more serious in the coming years, as the five land management agencies in the U.S. begin "partnering" with private enterprise to control our access to and usage of our public lands. If we're a small, voiceless bunch of "enthusiasts", we will not be heard, or even acknowledged. And, we're in competition with the largest "wreck-reation" lobby in the nation... the ARC (American Recreation Coalition), representing all of the motorized forms of eco-destruction such as dune buggies, dirt bikes, power boats, and off-road vehicles.

Our government, (and most sports), today, are about one thing.. money. And the guy who builds a $60,000 sand rail, and wants someplace to run it, gets all the attention. We, with our $700.00 kite buggies, aren't worth listening to; we camp cheaply, don't require high-dollar replacement parts, engines, tires, and batteries, don't attract huge crowds of idle lookie-loos to our events, nor do we contribute millions to the campaigns of land-grabbers like Richard Pombo and cronies in Washington D.C.

The only way we're going to be successful in this endeavor is:

1. Put principles BEFORE personalities.

2. Draft our "manifesto" or "charter", then stick to it, refining as we go.

3. Solicit cold, hard CASH from every member, giving until it hurts, at least at first.

4. Elect "cool heads" and strong negotiators to represent our interests with entities like BLM, US Forest Service, and other "land management" agencies.

5. Practice "ambassadorship" at each and every encounter with public, law enforcement, land management, and newcomers to our sport.

6. Brand ourselves, then market, market, market our memberships to every traction kiter we see, to swell our numbers enough to make a difference in the minds of decision-makers.

Being a warm, fuzzy "buggy family" is something we all enjoy, but it doesn't open doors or minds, where the proverbial rubber meets the road. Nowadays, it seems like only cold, hard cash can do that, or else numbers too large to ignore, neither of which we've got, at the present time.

Not trying to be defeatist, here, but I've spent countless hours cogitating on this whole issue, and much discussion 'round buggy-town, too, and there's no "magic bullet" except a lot of hard, unrewarded work. Ask the Mayor... he was party to many of the discussions.

At last gasp, a couple of folks committed to a draft "manifesto", to state the purpose and scope of such an "organization" attempt, as a starting point to further discussion and action. Corey-Lama was one of those participants, and I can't remember who the other party was... was it Sean?

Anyway, my $0.02 has been dropped in the bucket.

-Dooley :moon:

Quote:

Originally posted by deanaoxo I think it is time for us to seriously consider organizing ourselves as a group, to get insurance, keep safety records, promote, and in general help each other as a cohesive whole. I want to open the dialog about this topic, and then have a discussion one of the nights we are together, see if there is enough consensus to make this a reality.

There is no "I" in NABX...

'Twould be nice, Dean, if you would put aside your ego just enough to acknowledge that someone else, many, many months ago attempted to "open the discussion" of this topic, and posted many, many thoughts and proposals in this forum, and received many responses, suggestions, and commitments.

Funny, how suddenly you throw this out as though it were something no one thought of, until YOU did.

Repeat after me.... WE ARE FAMILY. Acknowledge the rest of us, and you'll find many more allies in your efforts.

Sorry if I let a little hurt feelings show, but it's not nice to be steamrollered, and have one's efforts and contributions ignored.

I'll choose to believe you just weren't thinking... and wonder if I'll be invited to the discussions...

-Dooley :moon:

i'm all for it only if we can get a breakthrough to fully support our npw pilots in the wild.... come on people, stand up, raise a voice loudly, go green, support our npw pilots.... they deserve our support....

practicing my shot car racing and i just lost.....

I'm with jellis: "call it what you want, just call it." I'm in.

Dooley I am sorry you think John Ruggiero, Glenn Pedro, Rick and Sarah McGaffey, Troy Gunn, Richard Ridgeway, Claxton Adrian Thompson, Keith Anderson, Dave Kennedy, Bob Hogan and myself "accomplished nothing and went no where". We also brought you on the committee and helped get you the first aid kit from the AKA that you kept and did not return. The traction committee received many accolades and praises for our accomplishments and being the most active AKA Traction committee ever, (this was from the AKA president Dave Gomberg at the time) and I will debate with you at NABX in front of every buggier there on this point.
We were all volunteers that tried to do our best for our sport, only to be kicked in the gut repeatedly by folks. You the very person that I (at the time, AKA Traction Committee Chairman) started the fund to help you with your legal buggy troubles you had. Just one of the many "went nowhere" projects we did.
If in the future, if we could be constructive and look forward to the success with the North American Buggy Association and stop the blame game from the past, that would be refreshing. In my opinion we must recognize all aspects of our sport, from freestyle to just for the fun of it, to enduro or circuit racers, to pimp my ride buggiers, to land boarders etc etc. We all should have a say in this club that will represent us equally.
I am a buggy soldier looking for victory for this buggy group's future.

Jon Ellis

Wow such great input already. Everyone is so positive.

Susan

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PKD Brooza's 2, 3, 4 and 5.5 meter
Libre V-max and big foot light V-max buggys
Nasa wings

I'm on board, to help with anything.

Jon E. for Pres, Dean for Vice, Susan for Sec.???

Thats my vote.

Whatever happened to the Northwest Buggy Assc.???

Oops. Sorry. If some how or another i, that's me, dean, hurt someone's feelings, i assure you that, while thoughtless at times, and excited at other times, out of it some, and barely with it,other times, i did not, and do not mean to offend.

In fact, when i mean to offend, you will very much know it.

So, how bout it? Ready to talk? With everyone in the same tent? Think we can do it?

The forum is being provided, the people are lining up, and the event will be chaired.

I suggest a meeting Weds night in the tent, and if we need to another later in the week if there is interest.

I'll be there, hope you will be as well.

Asking your forgiveness in advance for speaking in the first person.


someaoxostill~!

Quote:

Originally posted by jellis Dooley I am sorry you think John Ruggiero, Glenn Pedro, Rick and Sarah McGaffey, Troy Gunn, Richard Ridgeway, Claxton Adrian Thompson, Keith Anderson, Dave Kennedy, Bob Hogan and myself "accomplished nothing and went no where". We also brought you on the committee and helped get you the first aid kit from the AKA that you kept and did not return. The traction committee received many accolades and praises for our accomplishments and being the most active AKA Traction committee ever, (this was from the AKA president Dave Gomberg at the time) and I will debate with you at NABX in front of every buggier there on this point. We were all volunteers that tried to do our best for our sport, only to be kicked in the gut repeatedly by folks. You the very person that I (at the time, AKA Traction Committee Chairman) started the fund to help you with your legal buggy troubles you had. Just one of the many "went nowhere" projects we did. If in the future, if we could be constructive and look forward to the success with the North American Buggy Association and stop the blame game from the past, that would be refreshing. In my opinion we must recognize all aspects of our sport, from freestyle to just for the fun of it, to enduro or circuit racers, to pimp my ride buggiers, to land boarders etc etc. We all should have a say in this club that will represent us equally. I am a buggy soldier looking for victory for this buggy group's future. Jon Ellis

Just my own 2 cents for what it is worth.....I havent been around as long as most.....So again maybe I dont even have the right to have any type of input....
But let me say this..... the past is what it is the past......
I think its time to maybe to start to look toward our future....
everybody makes mistakes.....and a new group will have growing pains......
But I have 100% faith and trust that are family will grow and become even more greater than it is today.....

So My Wonderful Buggy Family.....I think if we just keep to the simple basic rule of that all are welcome.....Which from last I checked has always been the case


And even though we sometimes may disagree with one another.....just remember that life on the Playa is to short as it is for Family Feuds

Counting down day till I get to be at the Reunion

Flyin High
Shannon:singing::singing:

Okay, gang, time for me to eat some crow, perhaps.

I let my ego get "offended" and my feelings hurt, because this thread came off as a new and original instance of what I felt was a conversation already started and up and going, from over a year ago.

And Dean, your "first person" lead-off of this thread did tweak my head a bit; I felt like all the previous contributions were ignored, and that now, the idea of "organizing" was being picked up by someone else and "originated", once again.

And all you guys, I hope, know that my intentions are for the group, not for myself, so why should it matter who stimulates the thinking and actions? I forgot that, in the moment of being "miffed", and forgot the group, and I'll say right here that I regret the tone of my message to Dean. Dean, I apologize.

To John Ellis... you're correct.... there were many hours of good effort put out by the "Traction Committee", and I do still carry the AKA First Aid Kit to every event with me, and it's been put to good use, several times at last year's NABX, treating some "playa rash", and minor cuts and stuff, so I think it's still a real good idea to have it on hand. I don't use the supplies from it for my personal cuts and scrapes, either... I get my own band-aids for that. I did, however, tuck it under my arm at a traffic accident, not long back, thinking it would be needed, but the fire dept. got there first.

I think we all can see that one of the problems we face as "organizers" of an American buggy "club" or "association" is just what my own over-reaction illlustrates... it's easy to put personalities before principles, in these efforts, and forget that what we feel proud of, or possessive of, or what we feel we are responsible for, can get in the way of the good of the whole, and hurt feelings, wounded pride, or "territorial" squabbles can take us away from the goal. I'm just as prone to those attitudes as anyone, so it seems, and in a moment of ego, I let it show in a public forum, and now must take my lumps. Perhaps Claxton Thompson is the best example among us of the kind of "volunteerism" to which we all should aspire... I've seen the man working his ass off, year after year, never complaining, never taking credit, always taking care of business first, and sometimes forgetting that he, too, came to buggy!

The important thing, illustrated here, is that the lumps we all may have coming, from time to time, are FAMILY lumps, and we can bring each other back to the goal, back to the real issues, and back to the group, without tearing each other a new one, no matter how much one of us may deserve it. That's no accident, and it speaks volumes about the cohesiveness we can exhibit when it's needed.

So again, my apology to the group for putting wounded pride before the interests of the "family".

It would be nice if we could consolidate this thread, and include all the contributions from last year; the talk of a "manifesto", stating the purpose and scope of our effort, and putting us, hopefully, all on the same page, going forward. And I truly don't care who or what stimulates the discussion and pushes it down the road toward solutions, as long as it doesn't just wither and die when the winds abate for another year.

As John Ellis posted here, I owe a HUGE debt of gratitude to the efforts of this "Buggy Family", and I hope no one here thinks I am ungrateful, just because I possess an ego and an "inner child" every bit as active and agressive as most of this group; the trick, I guess, is letting our love of the sport and the special "family" feelings we have for one another carry us past the little divisions, racer versus cruiser, boarder versus buggier, kite-surfer versus land-traction enthusiast, kite business owner versus kite customer.

We all play with wind, we all need open spaces and beaches and parks to play in, and we're all, equally, threatened by the overcrowding and usage issues and land management issues that we see cropping up, more and more frequently, across this great nation of ours. I think our potential for uniting and standing together to face these problems can carry us through... hell, if the Brits can put together a national buggy club with real clout, I'd hate to think we couldn't!

So if y'all can accept my apology for being side-tracked and pissing in the sand to mark "my" territory, then its onward and upward, and perhaps I'll get the opportunity to give back some small portion of what all of YOU gave me, when the chips were down.

Good onya, John Ellis, for the reminder I guess I needed... I never intended to minimize the efforts of you and the rest of AKA's Traction Committee.

-Dooley :moon:

Looking forward to our first meeting. It can only get better.

Susan

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PKD Brooza's 2, 3, 4 and 5.5 meter
Libre V-max and big foot light V-max buggys
Nasa wings

I would suggest that the group encompass all "wind powered" activities.
As a "former" buggier, I have enjoyed the inclusion in the events as a landsailer and would regret having to not participate if the group was limited to kite traction only.
If we can get insurance and other benefits, it would be prudent to include all wind powered activities. As you may know, I have encouraged Blokaters to join us on the Playa for our event and expect the numbers to grow. BTW, the "godfather" Fran Gramkowski has now converted to the Blokart as well. We have the opportunity to expand our family, let's be as inclusive as possible.
See y'all on the Playa.
Jason:singing:

hey jason
you will always be a buggier in my eyes. LOL

Dooley you big old softy.....lol......just remember that as long as "family" sticks together.....there isnt anything that we cant do:singing::singing:

Flyin High
Shannon:D

what would npw pilot do?

Yes, Dooley, I was one of those present who commited to draft a manifesto. And in my defense, I actually put pen to paper, but was rather discouraged by what came out. Not that I couldnt do it, but I would need a lot of input from veteran buggiers and those who actually have experience organizing these events. I am willing to share what dribbled onto the paper, with the understanding that it was more a brainstorming session and not so much drafting a manifesto.....


I wonder about the formation a partnership with NALSA instead of AKA..... I hope I dont offend here, but the way I see it is that we have more in common with our fixed mast friends than stick and fighter kite fliers.....

What do they do for insurance/dues/events/and all the BLM issues that go along with our sport? Can we take any points from their documents/experiences? I dont even know who or how they are organized. Maybe there are enough crossover fliers to garner some interest in swelling their numbers in one fell swoop... after all, we are class 8 land yachts!

COmments?

Seany