Ok I used a little word play to get your attention.
I was wondering if-when the US customs would catch up with me and they did yesterday.
Being a dealer and having to purchase products from all over the world to sell here at home comes with a few issues other than language. The cost of doing business overseas now that Trump is starting to flex his muscles has me wondering and a bit fearful of the outcome. But to be fair he's not in office yet and I guess it's Oboma's fault.
My lawyer is going to have to deal with the problem of keeping me out of prison if this gets any more sticky.

Is it worth the hassle of doing business with China? Or any other country?
I will get to the point as soon as I get over the anger of it all..............................
To put it in a nut shell, I will not do business with China anymore. Besides making knock offs of every product in the world, under paying their employees, misrepresenting the items for sale, and charging Way too much money to replace or repair what was misrepresented or damaged that I purchased.
I do business all over Europe, Taiwan, and Japan, and the cost of taxes, tariffs, duties and the other stuff has always been done the same except for China.
I have to pay just shy of $32000.00 in fines for not claiming the correct product name of merchandise I purchased from China. What was labeled as toys from China is not a toy, or classified as a toy, in the United States. The correct classification is "recreational", "sport" equipment.

I think of Pansh and the cost of the "toy" that shows up on my porch in a few days of purchasing it and it just pisses me off.
What happened to made in the USA? When did we sell out to the local shop? I realize we don't make everything here because it's cheaper to buy it from another country.
Looks like it will cost more to buy from China than it will cost to buy locally.

When I get stuff off eBay; it's the person in China who fills out the customs sticker on the package. They wrote what is inside and the price.

Who is customs saying you owed money to?

Quote: Originally posted by rtz

Who is customs saying you owed money to?

To the US government. It basicly says I'm a smuggler. I'm under the impression from my lawyer it's the same as smuggling drugs into the US in teddy bears.
If it wasn't for the stupidity of the claim I would have to move to Canada. All in all it's the fact that China is doing business with the USA and I get nailed for their corruption, deceit, and stolen ideas from our products.

Jeff, sorry to hear about that BS.
Hope your lawyer can deal with this effectively.

I've wondered about how many "kite samples" get
declared coming from China. No doubt declaring
a parcel as a "sample" avoids costs.

That's not right for the buyer to be responsible for how a foreign seller declares their product.

Everybody moving to Canada...it's so hot right now

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

Everybody moving to Canada...it's so hot right now

Got to go before they build the wall.:D

I tried to dabble in buying things off of Alibaba which is the Chinese amazon.com a few years back . It was an amazing place where u could find anything u wanted for really cheap if u were willing to buy in bulk and have it shipped right to your door from china. Only thing is that 90% of branded stuff on there are counterfeit or fakes and the rest knockoffs of the real thing without branding. I was warned by people that you can be prosecuted by US customs for purchasing things on there and having it shipped to your house as this was considered importing counterfeit goods. long story short after a while I got spooked and just stopped ordering from them. I was recently surprised to see alibaba is now a stock being traded on wall street. what a joke. And I don't knw if its true but I heard your first offense you can negotiate a settlement with customs so u may want to look into that.

Never trust a red head with a nice rack!:o

You'll be safe here, but...
There's nowhere to buggy

Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob

That's not right for the buyer to be responsible for how a foreign seller declares their product.

I am stuck on this also. How do You have control of how a dealer goes about shipping and labeling a product?

They can't be fining you for not turning the product back. Can they?

$32000 is crazy big for a fine and 1st time offence? You aren't suggesting that Peter Newpilot can expect a crazy fine like that for accepting a kite from Pansh? or https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4-line-Nasa-kite-sport-kite-...

I am afraid that even in Canada you will find people who care less about local / quality products and the research they put in. AS much as I hate to admit it, I have been sucked into the Chinese low cost lure. More than once! That may be My Scottish ( :bird: ) heritage winning out over my Canadian upbringing?

I have to pay just shy of $32000.00 in fines for not claiming the correct product name of merchandise I purchased from China. What was labeled as toys from China is not a toy, or classified as a toy, in the United States. The correct classification is "recreational", "sport" equipment. (Quote)

Barry Goldwater identified Such problems a "Mission Creep". Over regulation comes from the bureaucracy and not the executive branch.

The bureaucrats are taught to lie! Your lawyer knows this. They believe their resumes will look better if they can spill some blood before they are out of a job.

Your exporter has a book with ALL the import classifications listed by the US for ANY product they wish to ship to America. You as the purchaser are not responsible if they the exporter does not use the correct product class for what you bought! Your just the innocent buyer. You did not know what or why the seller identified kites as toys. It's a matter of semantics. The Chinese call a kite a toy and the Feds call it a "recreational", "sport" equipment. Semantics! You are not at fault!!

So here's the deal. The Feds find it easier to go after you, being in the US, rather than go after the Chinese in China that miss labeled the shipments. The responsibility to correctly identify the shipments is their fault and not yours, as the innocent receiver.! The Feds are blowing smoke up your ass. Just tell the to go pound BS back up their ass's. Get the Chinese to pay up!

Been there, done that. Get a lawyer with a set of balls!:ticking:

so much for pc around here...

I can see paying the difference in the duties - regardless of what the seller marked it as, you owe duties on what was actually imported. The fines should be applied to the one committing the fraud.

egads...is it worth it?

I heard back from the ones making the rules and I need to cool off a bit, a lot before I respond here.

I don't believe they can put you in jail for this.

If they do, we'll break you out!

Well I heard back from the lawyer,

For those of us that don't have a clue, I will share a bit of crap with you.
First a bit of info to set the stage.
I am going to use PKD kites as an example.
PKD designs a kite, produces a working prototype, they head of to China to talk to one of 3 manufacturers. They strike a deal with the largest kite manufacturer in the world (this company produces 80 to 90% of all kites in the world) after this company produces a working product that is exceptable to PKD they start production and PKD goes home to start marketing the new kite. The first shipment arrives and to the horror of PKD the kites are not perfect. In fact they are not good enough to sell, they are off just enough to NOT FLY.
Off to China to find out what the $"@& happened. The quality and the expectation of what PKD wanted and signed the contract for was not delivered. Start the process all over again, redesign the manufacturing process and wait for proof they are on the same page as PKD, again. Oh by the way the second shipment of the NOT ABLE TO FLY kites have left china and are on the boat to PKD. At this point what do you do? Tons of money has been spent and nothing but car covers to show for it.
China produces an item that costs literally a few pennies and PKD has to sell this product at a price to cover all the crap they went through and will continue to go through in order to stay in business.
Because of the issues of production and cost, not to mention reputation, PKD builds their own manufacturing plant and produces their own kites. All problems solved, better product, less cost, reputation intact.

Now the fun part. China sells the item as a toy. They can call it anything they want, it's China, as long as they label it a toy and not a power kite they get away with paying the least amount of taxes, duties, tariffs, and what ever else they can get away with to make more money.
Here's the problem at its best:evil:
For the second bit of info.
When I order a few buggies from Libre, the company sends me a few pull over shirts that are embroidered as a thank you. Great promotional idea.
I receive a notice from customs my shipment is at the airport.
I find a broker to help with the paperwork. This is required here in the USA.
The brokers job is to assess the order and determine the proper categories to put the items in so that the correct duties, tariffs, fees can be paid in accordance of the law.
The buggies are a complete item and the cost is dealt with. If I was to purchase buggy parts the fees would basically triple.
Now the shirts. (This is the easy process) I need fo find out what country the material came from. What country made the item. What country did the embroidery. What country produced the label to indicate the shirt size. What country sells the finished product. Now to calculate the cost of this free promotional gift, $129.00. Oh I forgot, there are two of the shirts.
Now if one of the items of the shirt is produced in a country thats on the BANNED list like Cuba the item will be seized and possibly the entire shipment. You still pay for the broker, and any other fees and you forfeit the shipment.
Bearings is one of thos items to stay away from........

So here we are to today. Because you ordered this item more than once, you get flagged and like the IRS you get audited.
The USA goes through your orders with a fine tooth comb and some pencil pusher determines whether you get nailed or not. Either way your screwed, now they dig up everything and send you a revised invoice of unpaid fines.
Nobody cares that you bought toys from China, you didn't sell them as toys. Did you catch that? So you sell these power kites as toys(to get out of paying the fees)and a 4 year old kills himself with a 12m power kite TOY.

I have my own personal feelings about the entire situation and I can't say it here. Lawyers have me bound and gagged for the most part.

Van and his USA buggy company, better than from overseas by a mile.
Pansh and there toys are not quality built kites, because they don't fly or work correctly, they are toys. If they were made with the entente of competing in the world market with the big boys they couldn't sell them as toys.
Buy American, support the home business and keep the money at home.

Thank you for posting this story and your experiences, I specifically joined this forum just to thank you. I was just about to make a purchase of almost the same product from China. After reading your story, no way! You saved me a lot of grief. Tom Falater

Ouch Sorry to hear this. Thanks for the warning.

BigKid has been importing a lot of stuff for a long time now. I hope to think his situation is a bit unique? Poor Jeff has moved a lot of product and I suspect made very little $$$ for the effort.

I kind of doubt the IRS is going to track down every American that has purchased a China kite? Still, there are a list of reasons to avoid China kites.

Reputable kite companies don't ship their product as toys so that shouldn't be a problem. Of course it seems they could come after you for the SWAG that they often include.

Just got off the phone with the lawyer.
Long story short, I don't have to pay any past duty or fines but the lawyer fee is going to cost me a left arm and my first born.
I don't like dealing with snail mail or emails, I want to talk to someone on the phone or face to face. Hell I've even flown to St. Petersberg Fl to have a face to face with a guy. It's much easier to get the point across to someone when you can raise your voice or start using your hands as an extra umph to your loud voice.
I AM NOT RESPONCIBLE FOR THE US GOVERNMENTS LACKEYS, and the absence of a non-educated pencil pushing brainless act of authority. I have been a person who has always asked why and then asked a few other in your face questions and then told the person they were a complete idiot without the ability to think on their own without repeating what some other moron told them to say or think. It has gotten me in a lot of trouble but it has gotten me a lot farther than those that simply surrender to "the man". I learned how to write contracts by being a General Contractor and watching how large companies like Bectel, Westinghouse, and others screwed the governments of the world for billions of dollars.
I document, get names, places, times, and a few recordings of transactions of most things I get involved with. Because I am an a$$ about the way something is said or not said, I have a leg to stand on. This is one of those times I crossed my "t" and dotted my "I", and got it in writing. All I can say is that if the new president has his way with government and business outside the US, I'm that much more ahead of the game. I will go without, before I buy from China or One of their communist run countries. Europe is not much better, they are a little bit more honest.

Buy from China? Not me. Buy from Europe? A few companies from a few countries. Fight with the good ole US of A? You bet. What else is there to do after retirement, go fishing?

I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE US GOVERNMENTS LACKEYS, and the absence of a non-educated pencil pushing brainless act of authority. (quote)

The bureaucrats are taught to lie! Your lawyer knows this. They believe their resumes will look better if they can spill some blood before they are out of a job. (quote)

Happened twice to me. You know those little gold stickers that say "Made in China". Imported a container full of plush skins that got here without the stickers. Customs said they would release them IF each piece had a sticker. So... went to a printer and had some made. 5 people 2 1/2 days all got stuck. No deal said customs! Stickers point of origin had to be from China as well! ???WTF???
The lawyer brokered a deal with the agent. 3 house payments to be exact! UTT.

Second time was a container load of fireworks. More in the container than on the manifest? The port agents pulled the entire contents out and counted! DO YOU KNOW HIGH MUCH overnight letters cost from China? Some liberal A-Hole in DC thought he would ruin 4th of July and sent memos to all ports to unload fireworks shipments and count. And to take their sweet time doing so. UTT money again saved 4th of July for a small town in LA. I also hate liberal left leaning bureaucrats! Buy American!

I just heard that the Snuggie "blanket with sleeves" just won their case. They had been charged the "garment rate" of 14.5% tarriff, and argued they should be charged the "other, utility rate" which is 6.5% lower, and won!
I think of my kites as "adult toys" and therefore believe you should be charged at the toy rate!

I always have fun while using them, so they are toys IMHO! :bird: