I'm looking at selling off a good chunk of my kites and picking up a new Chrono v2 from Feyd.

I would like this to be my new lightwind kite, and I'd like more performance, especially upwind, than my speed 3 19m. Would a 15m chrono lose much over the speed 3 19m?

I'd love to go faster and point higher than I can on my current kites, I feel the need for speed :evil: The 15m seems like a decent compromise of light wind ability without being too huge when the wind picks up a bit.

I'm around 230lbs before gear and lots of my kiting is done in 10mph winds, snow only.

So I'm open to kite size comments if the 15m isn't appropriate.

I'm thinking of selling everything in my sig and keeping the Access 6m, 10m, and Summit 12m. Am I insane or does this seem reasonable?

15m is probally just enough power in 10mph . I would prefer the 18m .

Quote: Originally posted by gemini6kl

15m is probally just enough power in 10mph . I would prefer the 18m .

Up until recently, the Montana 14m was the largest kite I had, and I made that work down to around 6mph. Obviously not ideal, but workable. I guess I'd rather fill out the range about the 12m Summit and not necessarily be "only" a lightwind kite. Going by the ozone chart (i know i know) the 18m Chrono is maxed out at 10kts, while the 15m has a much broader range.

"Hi, my name is Bill and I'm a kite addict." :moon:

Makes sense to me to sell whole quivers of kites to buy new. Perfect sense. :evil:

If he doesn't spontaneously add to this thread you might want to consider reaching out to slapbasswoody. He owns Chronos and is very knowledgeable about traction kiting being a sponsored buggy racer. He's getting his son into the sport to boot which is always a great thing.

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

"Hi, my name is Bill and I'm a kite addict." :moon: Makes sense to me to sell whole quivers of kites to buy new. Perfect sense. :evil: If he doesn't spontaneously add to this thread you might want to consider reaching out to slapbasswoody. He owns Chronos and is very knowledgeable about traction kiting being a sponsored buggy racer. He's getting his son into the sport to boot which is always a great thing.

Thanks appreciate that :D I'll reach out to Feyd also since I think he's flown the Speeds as well.

I think the only kites I'll miss out of the bunch are the Montana 14m (maybe?) and the 7.5 Apex. It's essentially brand new, looks sharp, and flies sweet.

Hi Bill,

The 19m Speed 3 will definitely get you going in lighter winds than a 15m Chrono but as you said you are looking for a little more upwind performance which the Chrono will give.
To be perfectly honest anything below 10mph and it makes for a difficult day no matter what kite you are flying.

If you are kiting in 10mph winds most of the time I would suggest an 18m Chrono over the 15m but then I do like to go fast.
I have had my 15m up in 10mph and it trundles along ok but for when the wind drops off a little then the 18m would be the better choice in my opinion.

Good luck with your search and I hope all goes well

Quote: Originally posted by slapbasswoody

Hi Bill, The 19m Speed 3 will definitely get you going in lighter winds than a 15m Chrono but as you said you are looking for a little more upwind performance which the Chrono will give. To be perfectly honest anything below 10mph and it makes for a difficult day no matter what kite you are flying. If you are kiting in 10mph winds most of the time I would suggest an 18m Chrono over the 15m but then I do like to go fast. I have had my 15m up in 10mph and it trundles along ok but for when the wind drops off a little then the 18m would be the better choice in my opinion. Good luck with your search and I hope all goes well

Thanks for weighing in. I'll post a video from this week to kind of illustrate what I'm used to. I didn't bring my wind meter, but this was maybe 6kts gusting to 10kts. I'm on the montana 14m and making it work and hit 32mph. I've got to imagine the 15m chrono would be on a whole different level once it's moving, but maybe I'm mistaken. I'm being pretty cautious, most of you guys would probably feel pretty under powered in these conditions. I'm starting to find myself wanting more as I get used to it, I just don't want to jump to the 18m chrono and find a huge gap in my quiver from a 12m summit to the 18m chrono. That's why I was hoping the 15m would blur the line a little more


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB9Zn4CNU5w

I think you'd find that the 18/12 makes a nice split. In my experience a 12/15 split has too much overlap.

And given you're in the 200+ lb category, I think it makes a lot of sense to get a few extra meters of sail. I'm hovering right at 200lbs myself. I have access to both a 15m and 18m kite, but find myself on the 18m 90% of the time.

Some of it depends on snow/ice conditions you depend to ride most. If you plan on riding a lot of boilerplate and ice lakes, then the 15 might be the better option. Otherwise, go for the 18m and really enjoy the lightwind stuff. I think you'll find by the time you find yourself overwhelmed on it in the low-mid teens, that's when the 12m Summit really starts to come alive and be fun.

Quote: Originally posted by nate76

I think you'd find that the 18/12 makes a nice split. In my experience a 12/15 split has too much overlap. And given you're in the 200+ lb category, I think it makes a lot of sense to get a few extra meters of sail. I'm hovering right at 200lbs myself. I have access to both a 15m and 18m kite, but find myself on the 18m 90% of the time. Some of it depends on snow/ice conditions you depend to ride most. If you plan on riding a lot of boilerplate and ice lakes, then the 15 might be the better option. Otherwise, go for the 18m and really enjoy the lightwind stuff. I think you'll find by the time you find yourself overwhelmed on it in the low-mid teens, that's when the 12m Summit really starts to come alive and be fun.

Hmmm thanks nate. If you think the 18 is okay even up to 15kts maybe that really is the way to go. I was kind of thinking that by 10 I'd be thinking about a smaller kite. From what I've been reading the depower on these super high aspect kites isn't as great as something like a speed 3, is this accurate? Would the power of the 19m speed 3 be comparable to the 18m chrono?

Sure wish I could demo these kites! Dropping almost $3k without being able to try them out is tough, even for an addict like me :D

u2u sent.

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Quote: Originally posted by nate76   I think you'd find that the 18/12 makes a nice split. In my experience a 12/15 split has too much overlap. And given you're in the 200+ lb category, I think it makes a lot of sense to get a few extra meters of sail. I'm hovering right at 200lbs myself. I have access to both a 15m and 18m kite, but find myself on the 18m 90% of the time. Some of it depends on snow/ice conditions you depend to ride most. If you plan on riding a lot of boilerplate and ice lakes, then the 15 might be the better option. Otherwise, go for the 18m and really enjoy the lightwind stuff. I think you'll find by the time you find yourself overwhelmed on it in the low-mid teens, that's when the 12m Summit really starts to come alive and be fun. Hmmm thanks nate. If you think the 18 is okay even up to 15kts maybe that really is the way to go. I was kind of thinking that by 10 I'd be thinking about a smaller kite. From what I've been reading the depower on these super high aspect kites isn't as great as something like a speed 3, is this accurate? Would the power of the 19m speed 3 be comparable to the 18m chrono? Sure wish I could demo these kites! Dropping almost $3k without being able to try them out is tough, even for an addict like me :D

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Quote: Originally posted by nate76   I think you'd find that the 18/12 makes a nice split. In my experience a 12/15 split has too much overlap. And given you're in the 200+ lb category, I think it makes a lot of sense to get a few extra meters of sail. I'm hovering right at 200lbs myself. I have access to both a 15m and 18m kite, but find myself on the 18m 90% of the time. Some of it depends on snow/ice conditions you depend to ride most. If you plan on riding a lot of boilerplate and ice lakes, then the 15 might be the better option. Otherwise, go for the 18m and really enjoy the lightwind stuff. I think you'll find by the time you find yourself overwhelmed on it in the low-mid teens, that's when the 12m Summit really starts to come alive and be fun. Hmmm thanks nate. If you think the 18 is okay even up to 15kts maybe that really is the way to go. I was kind of thinking that by 10 I'd be thinking about a smaller kite. From what I've been reading the depower on these super high aspect kites isn't as great as something like a speed 3, is this accurate? Would the power of the 19m speed 3 be comparable to the 18m chrono? Sure wish I could demo these kites! Dropping almost $3k without being able to try them out is tough, even for an addict like me :D

Depower on these kites is very good. Especially if you are on a race bar. 18m Chrono V2 will outperform the 19m Speed 3. It's 2017, Speeds are no longer the light wind tool of choice. They haven't been for almost 3 years.

Also the gust handling of these new High AR has gotten to be very good.

Check your U2U.

Thanks for the advice guys, I have a Chrono v2 18m on the way :D

When Feyd says this kite is an apparent wind monster, he's not kidding. At all.

I brought the kite out on the lake but didn't think there was enough wind to ride. It took a "gust" to even get my wind meter to register, and that was 2.5mph. It was snowing and the snow was essentially coming straight down. I figured I'd use the opportunity to spread the kite out and get the bar and lines hooked up for the first time. Once everything was connected, the kite looked too good not to do something with it, so I gave the center lines a few yanks and up she went! There wasn't enough wind to get the kite directly over head, but by the time it was about 45-50 degrees up it was perfectly inflated, that's freaking amazing. Not enough wind to keep it in the air without flying it around, if parked it would slowly settle back to the ground. Flying around in the window it was generating some pull, so I thought what the hell... slapped my skis on and away we go.

GPS measured 14.4mph max speed, in less than 3mph of wind...

I was only able to work my way up wind with apparent wind. I could barely go 90 degrees off the wind, down wind just wasn't happening at all. I made it about 1.5 miles and then gave up, packed up the kite, and skied back downwind and off the lake.

I seriously can not wait to get this kite out again with even a breathe of "real" wind. 5mph should have me cruising, 10mph wind should be a riot. Thanks again Chris!

p.s. Should I pack this kite up any differently since it has the slats at the leading edge to give it shape? I folded it in half and then rolled it up like I normally do for now...

Great to hear you enjoyed your first Chrono experience.
I took out mine to a local spot in Utah this weekend to see how I would fair in the snow.
When I got there I thought it would be a good idea to get the 9m out seeing as I had never boarded in my life.
The wind was around 10-15mph and a little gusty but not too bad.
I laid the kite out ready to go and gave a little tug......................up she went.
Superman............ooops forgot to let the bar out ha ha ha ha it will take me a while to get used to these De-power kites.
Right then, time to get the board on..........Nope not a chance I really do need to get supple to be able to get down to my bindings.
The thing with buggying is, it makes you lazy. I sat down on the board and went for a little spin.
The moral of this story is to either master the board or to just bring the skis next time. At least I can do that ha ha ha.
I packed the kite away in the same way as you did Bill and I am sure it will be ok.
There is a bag you can buy on ebay that allows you to fold the kite in a way that keeps the LE ribs to stay as they should. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262696500044

yea those high aspect ratio race kites are amazing. once u fly one u want another and another. lol:D

Hmm the technique in this video actually doesn't look bad. It looks pretty much like the way the kite was packed from the factory too. I may give it a try.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqx8k_WxybM

Quote: Originally posted by slapbasswoody

Great to hear you enjoyed your first Chrono experience. I took out mine to a local spot in Utah this weekend to see how I would fair in the snow. When I got there I thought it would be a good idea to get the 9m out seeing as I had never boarded in my life. The wind was around 10-15mph and a little gusty but not too bad. I laid the kite out ready to go and gave a little tug......................up she went. Superman............ooops forgot to let the bar out ha ha ha ha it will take me a while to get used to these De-power kites. Right then, time to get the board on..........Nope not a chance I really do need to get supple to be able to get down to my bindings. The thing with buggying is, it makes you lazy. I sat down on the board and went for a little spin. The moral of this story is to either master the board or to just bring the skis next time. At least I can do that ha ha ha. I packed the kite away in the same way as you did Bill and I am sure it will be ok. There is a bag you can buy on ebay that allows you to fold the kite in a way that keeps the LE ribs to stay as they should. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262696500044

As easy as these kites seem to be to launch, I think you'd be fine getting your board/skis strapped on before launching the kite. No more need for running around and into the wind trying to get the kite in the air :D

It would be nice if when after flying our kites the wind would drop to nothing so we could pack it way like that

Just went out again with the Chrono in 8-12mph of wind. Started out on the 12m Summit but felt under powered for the most part. Definitely not under powered on the chrono but it's going to take a while to get used to it.

The winds were gustier than normal, and the chrono really surges and pulls hard in the gusts, much much more than I'm used to. You don't have to move the bar much at all to handle the gusts, but there is definitely some grunt there.

Bar pressure is really high, I was getting a forearm workout flying the kite. Turning the kite took a lot of effort, and turn rate was really slow unless I sheeted in the bar all the way, and that really took some strength with one hand lol. Unless I kept some pressure on the opposite side of the bar, the kite wants to dive into the ground slowly. No park and ride here All my other kites I can fly with my hand in the middle of the bar, and slight corrections from there are all that is needed. On the chrono I have to keep my hand all the way at the end of the bar to keep the kite flying happy.

Naturally my gps died or turned itself off between the Summit and Chrono runs, and I only have the summit track. I really wanted to compare upwind angles with the chrono. I still feel like I'm not moving upwind that well. I see gps tracks of foil boarders on water, and they're easily tacking 90 degrees up wind. I'm not even in the same neighbor hood, maybe that's unrealistic on snow/ice, but I don't exactly have a lot of moving resistance either...

All in all, I'm really surprised how much work the Chrono is to fly when powered up. Both upper and lower body got a work out Might be a technique thing, but I almost wonder if the kite needs some trim adjustment, maybe just a little break in period will suffice.

Awesome to hear you like the big rig.

Just some thoughts.

1) don't hook in without your skis/board on if you are on a surface you can't resist the kite on.

2) don't be afraid to overbar steer. There's no rule that states that over bar is verboten and it's a technique that is really under utilized. Also with practice you'll learn to tip stall. Takes a lot of the work out of it.

3) ability to go upwind relies heavily on pilot's edging ability. If you drift the edge the VMG will suffer.

4) bend your knees, drop your hips baxk and to the side and really use your weight to cantilever against the kite.

5) That race bar has a lot of power management potential. Don't be afraid to use it.

Packing in the wind is always a treat.

These big kites are all about low wind power and fun. thyre not very fast but still allow u to ride and do jumps and have some fun in 5 or 6 knts. Thyre however more of a park and ride. Ive never flown a chrono but also didn't hear any bad reviews about bar pressure or turning speed . u might want to ask other chrono users about this. As far as diving to the ground thats not normal behaviour so u may want to check all your lines and make sure thyre even. in low wind i usually depower the kite a little bit as this helps the kite move freely through the wind window and generate more power. i knw flysurfers its important to do this .

The larger kites are going to be a little more mellow than you're other kites, but with a little practice you're going to find yourself having a lot of fun. The Matrixx III is a relatively quick turning and light-bar-pressure kite, but I still use over-steering like Feyd mentioned on a regular basis - on all sizes from 18m on down. You'll find it puts a lot less strain on your wrists and works really well for managing the radius and power of your turn once you get used to it.

Looking forward to seeing some of your speeds once you get things sorted out. Go cat go!

"Bar pressure is really high, I was getting a forearm workout flying the kite. Turning the kite took a lot of effort, and turn rate was really slow unless I sheeted in the bar all the way, and that really took some strength with one hand lol. Unless I kept some pressure on the opposite side of the bar, the kite wants to dive into the ground slowly. No park and ride here All my other kites I can fly with my hand in the middle of the bar, and slight corrections from there are all that is needed. On the chrono I have to keep my hand all the way at the end of the bar to keep the kite flying happy.
"

Bar pressure shouldn't be unusually high. Check to make sure that there isn't a twist in your mixer. That can happen accidentally when you put the lines on. Even the 18m, I fly as you describe, hand in the center with subtle twists of my wrist to make minor corrections as needed. It is a high performance/Hight AR wing, which does require a little getting used to and if you take your hands off the bar of get lazy with flying it, it will eventually start to roll downward. As I said, don't be afraid to use the trim. You can trim it out and hang off the bar in a comfortable mid-sheet position and have it fly perfectly. Just Adjust trim to the throw you want, lock your edges and lean your weight into it. Takes very little physical effort when done correctly. (see pic) I'm not supporting my weight with that hand, I'm just skimmin' along.

Mellowness of a big kite depends on what you put into it. Big kites can be fast in light winds. They are strong in light winds as well. Depends on how much effort the pilot puts into it and how well they learn to get the every bit of performance they can out of a kite. The pilot makes the kite. But as gemini said, they make light wind days a lot of fun.

Not long ago, twice the wind speed on a kite was a pretty remarkable achievement. Now, 3-4x the windspeed is becoming common place. Especially on a kite like the Chrono V2. Sure you can throw a big kite up and cruise. But there is always the potential to get rowdy if you want. Unless it's sub 4kts. Hard to get to frisky in sub 4 but you can still get some nice moderate speed cruising in if not in high drag conditions. :D

I would agree that the Matrixx, on the surface, is relatively quick turning compared to an 18m Chrono. But if light wind performance is the goal. If getting days, good days, inconditions that most wouldn;t even consider rideable is the goal, the Matrixx 2 or 3 it don't come close to the light wind performance or power that Memo is getting a feel for. The 19m Zeekai is probably the closest thing in the HQ stable to the Chrono 18 and it still falls short on light wind performance in comparison. At least that's what we've found in side by side comparisons.

If you want quick turning and low bar pressure, then try a Nasa Star :D

They have no bar pressure of course they have no depower either:P

You can also use short or no lines. One hand or no hand flying is a breeze. Upwind may suffer a little but really doesn't matter. As long as you have wind you always will make it back.



Hopefully these tips help with flying your chrono

"Bar pressure shouldn't be unusually high. Check to make sure that there isn't a twist in your mixer. That can happen accidentally when you put the lines on. Even the 18m, I fly as you describe, hand in the center with subtle twists of my wrist to make minor corrections as needed. It is a high performance/Hight AR wing, which does require a little getting used to and if you take your hands off the bar of get lazy with flying it, it will eventually start to roll downward. As I said, don't be afraid to use the trim. You can trim it out and hang off the bar in a comfortable mid-sheet position and have it fly perfectly. Just Adjust trim to the throw you want, lock your edges and lean your weight into it. Takes very little physical effort when done correctly. (see pic) I'm not supporting my weight with that hand, I'm just skimmin' along. "

Thanks Chris I'll check the mixer closely. Hopefully it's something as stupid as me putting the lines on wrong

One other observation is that even with the depower trim all the way out (fully powered) I'm able to have the bar fully sheeted in and NOT stall the kite, even in the light winds. I was really surprised by this. I connected the rear lines in the middle position as recommended, but I think I need to check the lines on the bar and make sure they're all the same length.

It may all just boil down to me just needing more time on the kite. The only real surprise to me is the bar pressure. I'm hoping to make it to the Sturgeon Stampede in a couple of weeks, and maybe be able to fly with some more experienced kiters there


ssayre - I appreciate the utility of the Nasa Star, but holy crap they're unattractive :D

Just depends on the angle. It looks like a Romulen Warbird from the right angle :D:P


Ok, back to the regularly scheduled program.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

If you want quick turning and low bar pressure, then try a Nasa Star :D They have no bar pressure of course they have no depower either:P You can also use short or no lines. One hand or no hand flying is a breeze. Upwind may suffer a little but really doesn't matter. As long as you have wind you always will make it back. Hopefully these tips help with flying your chrono

Hahaha well done. But, it also proves that there is always a trade off when you opt for one performance element over another.

Take a look and make sure your mixers aren't twisted. I did it once myself in a rush to get a bar on a kite and get riding. Only did one side, kite flew fine but man the turn to the left took more muscle than I wanted to give it.

And sure, there's always a learning curve when getting used to a new kite. And the kite you have is a lightwind machine! It's going to take a bit of adjustment but time in the saddle will pay off huge.

She shouldn't stall much a full sheet in. One of the complaints with the original Chrono (as well as Sonics) was heavy stall tendency. Depending on which setting you attach the lines at you can change how it responds.

Again, that whole "learning curve" thing. I takes me a few hours/sessions to really get a feel for a kite. The thing about the Chrono that I really like is that they tend to be consistent through the size range. They scale well and the 9m flies much like the 18m etc.. No surprises from one size to the next. Not many kites are like that IMO.

Just a little point on the Chrono V2.

It is lifty...............very lifty but very controlable

Quote: Originally posted by slapbasswoody

Just a little point on the Chrono V2. It is lifty...............very lifty but very controlable

I did a mini jump with it yesterday, maybe 2ft off the ground just to test the waters. Even that little jump was nice and floaty :evil:

Can't wait for more snow to cover the lake again. 2 weeks above freezing really did a number on things, basically hit the reset button and now i'm back to about 2" of snow over the ice. When there was a foot of powder I wasn't afraid to send it with the summit. Now.... not so much lol

Dumb question number 30...

The chrono came with a small pack of lines in with the user manual bag. A red one and grey one, with loops sewn at one end. What are these for? Also came with a spare bungee/dyneema safety leash?