hey all,

just wondering what peoples thoughts are on de power or fixed bridle and which you turn to on a day out?

i have flown fixed bridles for last 2 years and recently got a ozone frenzy 05 10m to try mainly due to seeing others at beach on de power options,i am trying to learn buggy currently but curious on which route you go for.

best to learn to buggy w/ the equipment you have been flying for the last 2 yrs
that said i prefer fb in the bug anyway...dp on a board
i have a 05 frenzy..you don't want to be having to put that pin back in the chic loop if you release
i do everything i can to avoid pulling the safety...not real smart i know...have been meaning to replace it

They're all good.
Generally, I "prefer" my FBs, but since most of my flying time is in punchy inland wind I usually opt for a DP.
From the perspective of actually enjoying the activity of flying the kite, FB is the way to go. I don't consider flying a DP "fun", but it's frequently my best option.

That Frenzy has the potential to lift you , those are more popular with boarders who want to jump. Access is the low lift version that's better for buggying. You can still use it, but be careful and maybe use a fixed bridle until you've got some experience.

Personally, I start off using an Access most times I buggy. I find that I don't have to pay so much attention to the kite as I would a fixed bridle. You just kind of let it sit over your head and pull you along when you want. The safety system is more standard and part of the kite. If you want to fly a fixed bridle with a harness you'll need some kind of safety system that you'll have to research and buy components.

I fly both. Sometimes in the same outing. Just depends on the mood I guess. Haha. If I'm looking for an easy laid back run down the beach I'll fly a DP. If I'm looking to have fun and kinda push myself or I'm looking for the adrenaline rush. Then it's all about the FB's. I fly on the beach 99% of the time. So hanky wind isn't an issue usually unless it's an offshore wind. So it's mostly just what I feel like that day. But please don't get me wrong. The DP's can make for an exciting day too. I've had some wild rides under a DP. Haha. Good times!

Fixed bridle: Good in steady winds. Relatively inexpensive. More raw power than the equivalent sized depower. Nice direct feel.

Depower: Good in dirty winds. More costly but can cover the wind range of 2 or more fixed bridles. Less power than the equivalent sized fixed bridle.

Consider the trend of depows fading away in many segments of kite sport. There's a reason for this. Now to be clear, I'm not "Anti-fixed bridle" but I am "Pro-depower" . I flew FB the first 2-3 years of my kiting life. First depow was the '05 Frenzy. Never looked back. Our winds don't treat Fixed bridles well.

Abkayak is right. The safety on the '05 Frenzy sux. Even when things go bad you still consider taking the hit and/or riding things out, risking life and limb, just so you don't have to reinstall that stupid pin.

Modern safety systems are SOOOOOO much better. But the Frenzy '05 is a hell of a kite.

DE-POWER. LOL. HAHAHA HAHAHA. Take power away.... LOL... that's cute!

Recently I have been pulling out my depowers far more than my fixed bridles, and I have some of the best fixed bridles made. Depowers are so much easier to use in general because of their expanded wind range. You don't need to change sizes as often. Typically you can have two depowers and cover the same wind range of four or five fixed bridles. In fact, I do have only two depowers and I can ride anything from ant farts all the way up to around the 30+mph wind range.

I would also like to add. When I first started learning to buggy. I learned on depowers. Then tried to learn FB's. It definitely felt like a step backwards. I felt like I had no idea what I was doing. But I feel that learning to use FB's has made me a better DP pilot. But not the other way around. Had I to do it over I would have definitely started on fixed bridles. But...I'm a buggier. I've never tried to use a board.

This FB vs DP question reminds me of the trumped up "Less Filling" / "Tastes Great" argument of yore. No wrong answer.

I don't buggy as frequently as I used to, but when I do it is in bigger wide open places like the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake or the playa of Lake Ivanpah. When I commit to either of these places I like to get in both DP and FB if the conditions permit. For me personally I like to buggy with FB from handles strong arming the kite. This is such a direct feel of the motive power wind can give the rider and I love that! Tiring yes, but it gets me in contact with the root of the sport IMO. DP on the other hand lets me go for hours without wearing myself out and provides a level of safety that lets me relax and take in the groove.

So... whatever turns your crank... and hopefully whatever keeps you in the buggy! :D

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

This FB vs DP question reminds me of the trumped up "Less Filling" / "Tastes Great" argument of yore. No wrong answer. I don't buggy as frequently as I used to, but when I do it is in bigger wide open places like the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake or the playa of Lake Ivanpah. When I commit to either of these places I like to get in both DP and FB if the conditions permit. For me personally I like to buggy with FB from handles strong arming the kite. This is such a direct feel of the motive power wind can give the rider and I love that! Tiring yes, but it gets me in contact with the root of the sport IMO. DP on the other hand lets me go for hours without wearing myself out and provides a level of safety that lets me relax and take in the groove. So... whatever turns your crank... and hopefully whatever keeps you in the buggy! :D

They made DP for the same reason they made automatic transmissions..... So your grandma could drive one...

thanks all for your comments and very interesting they are too.the way i have seen lots of people at my beach on depower i did wonder if that had overtaken fixed bridle but it does not seam to be the case.

i brought the frenzy because it came up at i think a good second hand price (i hope!) and i couldnt find anything bad said about it and was just curious to try depower.

i have only flown frenzy few times so far static and once in buggy,what the issue with safety that got pointed out ? i have tried the red release by the trim adjustment which worked well and have had the chicken loop safety apart which didnt seam to bad.

Quote: Originally posted by m00ms

thanks all for your comments and very interesting they are too.the way i have seen lots of people at my beach on depower i did wonder if that had overtaken fixed bridle but it does not seam to be the case. i brought the frenzy because it came up at i think a good second hand price (i hope!) and i couldnt find anything bad said about it and was just curious to try depower. i have only flown frenzy few times so far static and once in buggy,what the issue with safety that got pointed out ? i have tried the red release by the trim adjustment which worked well and have had the chicken loop safety apart which didnt seam to bad.

Interesting that this is your take on these responses. Take a look at kiting in general and tell us how many fixed bridles you see on anything but.t a buggy. Kitesurfer fixed bridles? No. Snowkite fixed bridles? No. Kite Ground Board? Not many. Buggy racing? Less these days I would bet.

Depowers are more technical to fly. They require more skill in that you aren't only dealing with placement in the window to manage power, you also have variable angle of attack both on the fly and mechanically fixed.

Ask someone who flies depower why they fly depower. You can bet they flew fixed bridle in the beginning. Ask a FB rider why they ride FB and then ask them how much experience they have with depower. My bet is, little to none. Like the LEI riders who smack talk foil kites. In the end you usually find that they never actually put in the time to learn to fly it properly.

Look at any major progression in kite sport in the last 5 years. How much was done on fixed bridles?

Again, I'm not anti FB. I'm pro-depower and for good reason. We don't use FB in our school as they caused confusion when transitioning to depower. And now there are small depower that are as good or are designed to be purpose built trainers.

If you have an 05 Frenzy, it's a terrible representative of what depowers are capable of. Great kite but wicked. It has minimal depower and pretty stout lift.

But no glide.

The safety can be a PITA. Some were better than others with a little more slack in the loop that holds the pin and the strap that the pin is on. But even those, with cold hands and nukin winds, can be a pain. Be sure to use the horn loops and all post release stuff is easier.

Feyd...i respectfully disagree
dp kites may be more tec, but the flying is not
fb guys are piloting their kites way more doesn't mater if winds are lite or nuking
I'm not anti DP...it's just how it is
DP kites sell way better so mfg's cater to the larger more profitable market

IMO

I fly Depowers only but learned on fixed bridles. Anybody that flies in Wisconsin knows how gusty, turbulent and crappy our inland winds are. Fixed bridles would make life harder than it already is. If I lived on the coast then fixed bridle would be another option for me.

I guess I'm lucky in that respect. I live only minutes from the beach. So I've never really had to deal with gusty winds. Save for a few times I've ridden at the local park in town. Twice with FB. While it's a nice big park and only a couple blocks from the house. I just don't ride there. Simply because I'm spoiled with beach riding. I did things kinda backwards in the beginning. I had static flown FB for a couple of years before I started buggyin. But the majority of my buggy time in the beginning was on ARC's. So when I went to SOBB. I really wanted to learn FB'a. I really felt like I was starting all over again. Now days I swap between both. I often wonder if I'm doing myself a disservice by not sticking with one or the other. I still feel the most comfortable under my 15m Phantom. I'm completely at home from 6-20mph wind with it. And most times 20+ was where I would switch to FB. This was mostly do to the rack that until recently I didn't have a FB larger than 5m. I wouldn't say one is better than the other. I think it's more personal preference and application. Which is going to be dictated by a dozen other factors. But in the ends. It's all about you and your preferred flavor.

Easter Sunday here, the National Weather Service is forecasting 10 to 17mph gusting to 29. Very typical winds in Wisconsin. Fixed bridle just doesn't cut the mustard in that.

An '05 kite is not really indicative of current DP tech. Today's kites are faster, easier to deploy, with much greater depower. The safeties are
easier to use and reset. I fly both cause they both have their attractions. FB has speed and handling, easy set-up, lots of response, and the
excitement of quick piloting environment. They make static flying fun, and with smooth winds they rock. That said, like most have found,
DP kites don't give up much in handling while adding greatly in the safety and wind range capability. Why limit yourself to one type or the other? I learned on FB and that allowed a lot of learning for not much cash. I now fly mostly DP as kite selection is easier with the broad wind range and ease of flying. I learned to drive on a standard shift, automatic transmissions being a "luxury", now the stick shift has to ordered special and few people even know how to drive with a clutch. Fly what you have and learn from your experience!

Quote: Originally posted by Cheddarhead

Easter Sunday here, the National Weather Service is forecasting 10 to 17mph gusting to 29. Very typical winds in Wisconsin. Fixed bridle just doesn't cut the mustard in that.

Works for me.