Hey people,

I've being kitesurfing with inflatable kites for some time now, also a bit of snowkiting and landboarding. Now I want to have a foil quiver dedicated for land use.

One thing that I'd like to do in the future is backcountry snowkiting. (So far I mostly did it on frozen lakes.)

I already have:

12m Flysurfer Unity. I've occasionally used it for a few years now. It is fine. But I would probably prefer to replace it by FS Speed.

7m Ozone Frenzy. Just got it. Have not tried it yet. It is still in the mail.

I also have 6 inflatable kites from Best and Wainman Hawaii in 7/9/12/15m.

I am not sure if 12m Unity and 7m Frenzy will get me covered on snow. The jump from 7m to 12m would definitely be too big for water, but on snow it might be a different story.

One kite I was thinking about is

10m Flysurfer Speed 4 (preferably in Deluxe/Lotus fabric).

Heard good things about it. Closed cells is a plus. On water, I still prefer inflatables to foils, but I might change my mind with FS Speed 4.

I ride a snowboard & I live in New England. Snowkiting conditions here can be really bad. Gusty winds always changing direction and going from 0 to 60 mph in a second, etc.

Also I've already got too many kites, and I don't want to spend a lot on another kite.

Any suggestions?

yea you don't need anymore kites, but def buy one anyway
I'm east coast...weigh 165# and if i only had 1 kite for everything
it would be a closed cell 9m...
im kinda over the flysurfer thing and would go matrix or check out the new PKD
jusayin

I also live in Boston and would say that a 10m will have too much overlap with your 12 and a bit of overlap with a 7. Assuming all characteristics are the same for a given quiver, a 4-5m spread is common on land. With little snow there is little friction so you just need a little "umph" up front to get going and then once you do you keep going on snow/ice. If anything, depending upon your weight, you may need something smaller than a 7 but not something between your 7 and 12. Sure on the 12 you may be a little overpowered at times and on the 7 a little underpowered but if you work the kite and get going, you should be OK (or fly conservatively when overpowered).

I don't know why my other posts are blank. I was on mobile and though I could type my full answer, it only posted blank responses. Same thing happened when I went to chrome on my laptop. Only way I got it to work was using my laptop in IE and any attempt to edit those posts results in blank postings. Weird.

Thanks for your replies! So I guess I don't need more foils kites (at least for now).

I don't think I need a smaller size than 7m. I weigh about 180+ lb. I kited on my 7m Wainman LEI in crazy winds both on water and on snow - basically as crazy as it gets (other than kiting in a hurricane). Wainman can handle it well. I don't know if 7m Frenzy has the same high end as a 7m LEI. I'll see.

B-Roc, I'll probably meet you sometimes in Nahant. One thing is that almost every time when I take my mountainboard to Nahant, I end up kiting on my surfboard in the water. This is why I did not hang out much with buggy/landboard crew in Nahant so far. But I want to do more landboarding in the future.

2 cents from someone who spends a lot of time flying inland New England conditions.

First, we have to be clear here, SIZING IN REGARDS TO LEIs AND FOILS IS AN APPLES TO ORANGES COMPARISON. If you were to take a 7m Frenzy out in conditions you take your 7m Wainman out in, you're going to get your backside handed to you.

What matters isn't the flat area of the kite, it's the projected area. In other words, the amount of the kite that is actually doing work. That wainman is a great kite in nukin' conditions because you are on the water and it's projected area is probably around 4m. In your weight range, a consummate high wind kite.

That 7m Frenzy has a projected of almost 7m so it will be considerably stronger. Also, you have less resistance on snow/ice (think similar to foil boarding) so that is a factor. Given that you have a "7m", this means it's an older Frenzy and as such gruntier and less depowerable than any of the recent versions. So if researching wind ranges for that kite (which I suggest you do) look for somewhere pre-2013. Most wind ranges are based on 160# so there is some fudge factoring to be had but they offer a good baseline.

The 7m Frenzy, especially in the 04-06 versions, is a beast and for many in the early days was very close to a 1 kite quiver on snow. IT WILL NOT COME CLOSE TO THE HIGH END OF YOUR 7M WAINMAN. Conversely, that little Wainman isn't going to come close to the low end of the Frenzy.

I guess my question at this point is which version of the Frenzy are you getting. If it's any of the Y line versions, do yourself a favor a convert it to 4 or 5th line.

At 180 pounds, and I'm guessing you're on a board, a 9m would be a better option.

Also in the winter, you need to take into account temperature induced boost that you encounter with colder denser airmass in winter. Your Best TS 12m in 15 knots, warm weather on water is considerably less powerful than it would be in 15 knots at 20f on snow. We often see water riders make this mistake.

12m Unity wind range in standard material is about 10-18 kts. The Frenzy is going likely going to start where the Unity leaves off and get you up to about 28kts+ depending on your skill level both in the flying aspect but also in what you do with your feet. :D

2 kites to make up that range for part-time snowkiters is pretty common. I wouldn't rush out to get a new foil unless you really want/need one. And then if that's the case, there are a lot of really good options out there beyond the Speed 4.

Consider this also. Not all kites are equal and kite design matters. For example: In 12kts my smarter half can ride the 18m Ozone Chrono UL. She's 5'9" 130lbs. In the same conditions, I can ride the Ozone R1 in a 10m. I'm 200 lbs. We will be fairly evenly matched in power, I will have an upwind advantage, she has better hucking. Modern kites have a broad spectrum of performance these days.

This being the case, B-Roc's position on the 10m Speed 4 is spot on. That Speed is going to do essentially what your Unity does. But it will be less forgiving, more fun on the upwind and a much better huck machine. So you have to decide do you want ease of use and high safety factor or something a bit more sporty?

And I agree with Abkayak. Though my 9m Closed cell kite of choice would be an Ozone Chrono V2. They have been more reliable in the gusty stuff we fly in compared to the Matrixx, have better depower and better upwind. Add a set of line extensions and you can get nearly 12m performance out of it as well.

Now that the V3 is available, the V2 can be had for fairly short $ compared to what they were. I've been holding off on selling our 9m demo just because she's just too darn nice to fly. :P