How do you deal with line management?

I ask this because I used to live in the world of complete kites with handles or bar. I have recently moved into the world of multiple depower kites with only one bar. With fixed bridal kites it was simpler to keep straight. With depower pulleys it gets a little bit more confusing. I have seen either the concepts of leaving them loose or using one to larkshead one onto the other three.

What do you do that works well for you when switching between multiple kites with one bar?

You need more bars.
(I know that's not terribly helpful, but I am one bar short - some would say more - and I HATE dealing with the mess.)

More bars is the only real solution. I don't know how arc and LEI guys do it but I fly foils and the lines only ever come off it there is a major problem or tangle.

Eric,

The guys already weighing in are right of course. In a perfect world there is one bar per DP kite. I own a quiver of five LS2s and use all of them with a single bar. It is a pain in the seat meat to swap the bar out and I spend considerable time between kites adjusting the brake line width and keeping the five lines perfectly straight and untangled. The alternative of course is to spend nearly $2,000 dollars getting four more bars. Some kite sizes in the quiver get used more than others to boot so investing in multiple bars means buying probably two bars that will rarely get used.

For me, I bite the bullet and swap the bar out as I swap kites. As with so many things in life, "money buys wonderful things".

Windstruck, do you just leave your last kite hooked up to the bar and hope that is the kite that you need next?

Quote: Originally posted by eric67m

... What do you do that works well for you when switching between multiple kites with one bar?

There are three strategies: Use a line keeper, transfer directly to the new kite, or buy more bars.

Line Keeper

I suggest you try a line keeper like one of these:



To disconnect the bar from the kite, first wrap the lines on to the bar. Just before you reach the ends of the lines at the kite, push the line keeper onto the bar end to pin the last wrap of the four lines. Then disconnect the flying lines pushing each into a crack between the short segments of vinyl tube as you disconnect them.

Always start from the right hand steering line pinning at the "odd end" (the pink or orange end of these keepers). Then proceed to the right hand main line, then the left main. Finish by pinning the left hand steering line in the last crack between the vinyl tubes.

Make sure each line is tight as you pin it. The ends won't line up, but that's normal. They'll twist on one another, but that's OK.

To reconnect the bar to the kite, place it near the kite. Untangle the tails of the flying lines. Start reconnecting the flying lines. Start on one side of the kite and the corresponding side of the keeper pulling the line out of the keeper and attaching it to the corresponding kite bridle point.

It might help to disconnect the 2nd, 3rd and 4th line from the keeper at once to allow the keeper to come of and line to be unspooled from the bar. Often lines 2 and 3--the mains--can be held in the mouth while line 4--the last steering lines is held in the hand. This allows you to attach the second steering line, then the mains. As attaching the mains last is standard procedure, this is not a problem. As twisting of mains can be unspun at the bar, this is not a problem.

However you do it, keep the bar out of the kite bridles and out of its own flying lines. Don't spin your body, or move the lines between your hands any more than you have to. Your goal is to not induce any twists as you attach or handle the bar.

With the four lines attached, unwrap the lines walking to the launch spot as you go. With the lines unwrapped walk out the lines, checking for twist as you go. If you did your job right there should be no more than a few simple twists in the lines.

Direct Transfer

If you don't have a keeper, you can leave the bar on the last kite and transfer it the next kite just before launch. To do this, roll out new kite and weight it. Then roll out the previous kite on top of the next kite and weight it. Unwrap the bar and straighten the lines near the kite. Disconnect one line at a time from the previous kite and transfer it to the next kite. Once the last line line is moved, roll up the previous kite and pack it.

With the lines moved to the next kite, walk out the lines to verify there are no twists, then launch.


Buy more bars

I highly recommend the "buy more bars" solution. I have 6 depower kites in my active quiver and 5 bars. My latest Arc does not have its own bar, but I expect to fix that omission within the next month. When you take this approach, each bar can be adjusted to its own kite. By "adjusted" I mean the lines are attached at the bridle or pigtail position that has proven most effective for that kite and bar. I build my own bars so most are built to the same standard, but there is some variation. Leaving each bar on its own kite reduces the number of surprises and readjustments.

Regards,
Philip

pbc,

This seems like a really helpful post regarding the line keeper. A video showing exactly how you do this or maybe just a series of photos would be really helpful....hint.

I like your direct transfer idea as well. Never occurred to me but seems like a really good way to do it.

Pbc, I agree that is an interesting concept. I would like to see a little bit more.

I have another concept that I am thinking about that is a line keeper/ organizer device.

I've been meaning to try to make something like the line keeper idea above, but with pigtails or whatever to attach the line ends to. I would use one on the bar side and one on each of the kites I was flying with that bar.

But in reality I'll probably get at least one more bar for my Chronos because I'm lazy.

Quote: Originally posted by eric67m

Windstruck, do you just leave your last kite hooked up to the bar and hope that is the kite that you need next?

That would be bringing logic and common sense into the mix. Good idea. Thanks!

I will try to con the water cutter operator at my work into making a couple of the design that I have drawn up for me this week...

This whole conversation got me to thinking about line and bar management and how much time I spent swapping out kites in my LS2 quiver at IBX when I only had a single bar for five kites. Half my time on the ground was dealing with line and bar related issues. I really don't get to kite buggy often, but when I do I want to spend time flying, not fiddling. Can't seem to keep a good kite squire employed with my rarity of flying so I decided to bite the bullet and buy two new bars from Born. This will mean I have a bar for my 3.5, 5.5, and 7.5m LS2s. Ideally I'd have five, but that's a whole lot of clams! The thing is, swapping out lines on the 9.5 and 12.5m is not as big a deal because the wind is blowing much softer when I want to fly either of those Big Ladies and things are more controllable. The worst is handling the 3.5 or 5.5m kites as the wind is howling when I want to use either of them.

ARG!!!! Thanks Eric. :D

Ah, your kite squire concept... my daughter is most likely coming to one of the weekends of SOBB. I have doubts on her previous squire training. Although she has watched Monty pythons the holy trail a handful off times. She mainly likes to sit in the car and play phone games when I'm at the beach.

Come Patsy.

Sorry on making you think you need more bars. Obviously that is a good solution, I just try to keep things on the cheap. I just try to identify a problem and fix it or make an improvement.

I actually appreciate this! I've been thinking for a long time that I've been wasting valuable time swapping out bars as I change kites. I fly infrequently and want as much time as possible actually riding, not fiddling. In the end I ordered three new bars which I intend to permanently attach to my 3.5, 5.5, and 7.5m LS2s. I will keep my original bar for swapping between my much more infrequently used 9.5 and 12.5m LS2s. They get far less usage and are easier to deal with as the wind is much lighter when I want to use them.

SS kites can be a handful on the Ivanpah playa. Lots of bridles to tangle and no real structure to the kites on the ground so they can quickly tangle into a real mess, even when put nicely on a padded pole pounded into the ground.

:wee::wee::wee:

Quote: Originally posted by eric67m

Ah, your kite squire concept... my daughter is most likely coming to one of the weekends of SOBB. I have doubts on her previous squire training. Although she has watched Monty pythons the holy trail a handful off times. She mainly likes to sit in the car and play phone games when I'm at the beach. Come Patsy. ...

Get her a halved coconut shell so she can practice!

Perhaps she could grip it by the husk.

What, held under the dorsal guiding feathers?

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?


Now back to the thread where I hope for a small, inexpensive device to organize my lines....

Quote: Originally posted by eric67m

Pbc, I agree that is an interesting concept. I would like to see a little bit more. ...

OK, I hear you guys. Let me see what I can do this weekend. I think I can con my son into filming while I narrate and demonstrate.

Philip

I've shared a couple videos describing how to get by with fewer bars than kites. I did How to detach/reattach a bar from a kite using a line keeper and How to transfer a bar to another kite

Quote: Originally posted by pbc

I've shared a couple videos describing how to get by with fewer bars than kites. I did How to detach/reattach a bar from a kite using a line keeper and How to transfer a bar to another kite

Phillip - thank you for these two videos. That's a good system you've got there. The little elastic with the beads is a great simple tool.

Different people's kits are different of course as are the conditions where they attempt live transfers as shown in your second video. I got a chuckle thinking about trying to switch from my 5.5m LS2 to my 3.5m LS2 on the Ivanpah playa with the winds blowing 25+ mph on the ground and the two kites wrapped around a pole one on top of the other with their respective 20 miles of bridling. Best way to find out if I got the bridling lined up correctly would probably be to just sit in my buggy, hook in, and hot launch the 3.5m and arc it over the Blocart encampment set up right next to my pole.

What could possibly go wrong? :evil:

That's a cool device, pbc. Thanks for the vid - guess I'm more of a visual type, I wasn't getting how that worked until I saw you do it. Gonna have to make one of those - or just keep my bar attached to my arc... not sure why I don't, it's the only kite I have that I take the bar off every time. Anyway, great system.

Windstruck - I just watched the Brian Holgate world record video last night... I bet he loves transferring lines in those winds :evil:

(no video of the actual record, but watching him try to get in the bug and launch is pretty crazy)

Quote: Originally posted by jeffnyc

Windstruck - I just watched the Brian Holgate world record video last night... I bet he loves transferring lines in those winds :evil:

You've captured it perfectly with this video! It is a whole other ball game on a playa once the wind picks up. :karate:

Didn't Steffan make line keepers for his Longstar kite?
Looked like the little comb that keeps my toes apart when I do my pedicure?

Quote: Originally posted by Ed Cline

Didn't Steffan make line keepers for his Longstar kite? Looked like the little comb that keeps my toes apart when I do my pedicure?

Sally, thanks for the haunting visual of your mani/pedi rituals. :P

All Born-Kites come with the little loops at the top center of the leading edge, color coded for your convenience. For the NS3s there are three loops; for the LS2s and RSs there are five. Currently I have my bridle pigtails all larkshead knotted to these their respective loops with the bridling themselves daisy chain knotted to keep them neat. I'll keep my four NS3s that way as I sometime go bar with them and sometimes handles (they are all strung with z-bridles to become switch hitters). My LS2s, on the other hand, will each get their own bar once the new bars arrive, except I plan on sharing one bar between my 9.5 and 12.5 LS2s. I use them much more infrequently and they are easier to work with because the wind is blowing softly when I pull these two big ladies out of their bags. Not sure yet whether I'll leave the bar attached to the last kite I used of these two or not.

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Quote: Originally posted by pbc   I've shared a couple videos describing how to get by with fewer bars than kites. I did How to detach/reattach a bar from a kite using a line keeper and How to transfer a bar to another kite Phillip - thank you for these two videos. That's a good system you've got there. The little elastic with the beads is a great simple tool. Different people's kits are different of course as are the conditions where they attempt live transfers as shown in your second video. I got a chuckle thinking about trying to switch from my 5.5m LS2 to my 3.5m LS2 on the Ivanpah playa with the winds blowing 25+ mph on the ground and the two kites wrapped around a pole one on top of the other with their respective 20 miles of bridling. Best way to find out if I got the bridling lined up correctly would probably be to just sit in my buggy, hook in, and hot launch the 3.5m and arc it over the Blocart encampment set up right next to my pole. What could possibly go wrong? :evil:

There's rarely much wind in my front yard. It makes the transfer look easy. High winds are one more reason to have one bar per kite.

Did you notice that the line keeper didn't really fit my bar? It's 'cause I don't use them any more. ;-) Now that I have one bar per kite there's almost no need for them. I've never bothered to make a keeper that would fit my skinny bars.