Hi! This is my first post here, so please forgive me if I'm posting in the wrong area.

I've been flying two-line sport deltas and foils for about 40 years.

The only thing that has been missing has been sufficient pull. But I think I've overdone it and bought the wrong kite: a Prism Tensor 4.2.

It's a beautiful quad line foil, but it doesn't seem to fly well without at least 10 knots of wind (even with the bridle adjusted). And once the wind hits about 12 knots, it pulls so hard that it is almost impossible to fly (with control) within the wind window.

It seems like a fantastic kite for buggying or other traction sports, but for a day at the beach in SoCal, it has been quite painful on my forearms and shoulders. After about 15 minutes of flying, I'm exhausted.

It also has been very hard to find a place to fly safely. There are no open treeless fields nearby, and the beaches are crowded with people. With smaller kites, I can safely fly over people, but with this beast I don't feel that's respectful or safe.

So did I buy the wrong kite? If so, what do you recommend?

Also, I thought switching to a quadline would be a big improvement in the fun factor, but now I'm not sure... what do you think?

Quote: Originally posted by windlover

Hi! This is my first post here, so please forgive me if I'm posting in the wrong area. I've been flying two-line sport deltas and foils for about 40 years. The only thing that has been missing has been sufficient pull. But I think I've overdone it and bought the wrong kite: a Prism Tensor 4.2. It's a beautiful quad line foil, but it doesn't seem to fly well without at least 10 knots of wind (even with the bridle adjusted). And once the wind hits about 12 knots, it pulls so hard that it is almost impossible to fly (with control) within the wind window. It seems like a fantastic kite for buggying or other traction sports, but for a day at the beach in SoCal, it has been quite painful on my forearms and shoulders. After about 15 minutes of flying, I'm exhausted. It also has been very hard to find a place to fly safely. There are no open treeless fields nearby, and the beaches are crowded with people. With smaller kites, I can safely fly over people, but with this beast I don't feel that's respectful or safe. So did I buy the wrong kite? If so, what do you recommend? Also, I thought switching to a quadline would be a big improvement in the fun factor, but now I'm not sure... what do you think?

Welcome to the Monkey House Windlover, always room for a few more good chimps. :D

The Tensor series of kites are good quality and a decent introduction into the power kiting side of things. You clearly have a lot of other kiting experience. In direct answer to your question I would say that, yes, you may have bought the wrong kite for your particular conditions (static flying on crowded SoCal beaches). I've owned your exact kite before and did not really like it for static flying except for a sort of sick-puppy work out of sorts where I'd be sitting on the ground with my heels dug in to brace myself against the extreme pull. The thing with a kite that large for static flying is that it pulls like a motha but it moves far too slowly to be fun to fly. And as you've noted, the wind range you can successfully fly it in is extremely slim.

Please don't fly a kite like this (any traction kite) over people!!! The power kiting community always ends up hanging in a precious balance with the rest of the public space users and there are countless stories of access being denied for everybody by the careless actions of a few. Beyond that, the lines when the kite is loaded up are under a great deal of tension. I don't want to imagine the visual of catching somebody across the neck on a beach if the kite goes screaming low through the wind window. Also, striking a person with an inflated kite under tension in a dive bomb could also end very badly for all involved including you. So... please don't fly near people. Yes, I know you live in SoCal and I know what that means. Sorry.

I take trips several times per year down to San Diego and always bring some kites. I've had nice static sessions on a number of beaches in the evening hours. The sun bathers and most swimmers are long gone and you can usually clear some space for yourself and have some nice static flying in smooth laminar breezes. I bring a couple of line sets with me and often run 10 meter lines (as compared to the more normal 20-25m) so I don't cut as big a swath across the beach. No, the kites don't fly as well, but it can be better than not flying at all based on crowds.

I travel with Born-Kite NASA Star-3s. These are single-skin deltas that can be flown from a bar with two or three lines or by z-bridling to fly from handles with four lines. Single skins are great in this setting since they pack up small and don't collect sand. I'm a dedicated Born-Kite guy but there are other good SS kites out there for this option. I might suggest you look at the Peter Lynn line of single skins called UNIQ.

http://www.peterlynn.com/products/single-skin-kites/

These are purpose built for your application. If you do go that way and elect for the four line QUAD I'd suggest the 2.5m (max 3.5m). Larger and you'll have the same problems already discussed.

Good luck and welcome to the forum!

Welcome windlover.

Do you want big foil fun without feeling like your arms are about to detach from their sockets ? Get yourself a Flexifoil Super 10. Its a two line kite that can reach speeds of almost 100mph!..and you can stack them for more power. 4 line traction kites are not great fun to fly static imo.

Have you ever looked into Revolution Kites? They seem like the answer to your wishes. By far the most entertaining kite to fly static IMHO.


I don't have hands on experience with the Prism. It sounds like it has an AOA angle of attack adjustment that is all you tinkered with?
I have a feeling your issue is not with AOA as much as your fly line length. It is probably best to adjust the AOA for front line influence if the winds are moderate. This will make it fly farther ahead in the window and faster through it. At the cost of some brake input. Next hook up the fly lines so the front are shorter and or your brakes are at the longest setting. Essentially flying it on the front lines only.


Tune the brakes in bit by bit. When set just right the kite should fly with a slight arc in the back lines with handles relaxed. Applying the brakes should stall and then back the kite down when set perfect.


Again not having hands on I suspect your lines were set up to be effective with the kite in bar mode. To adjust for handle mode may take some brake adjustment ??????


Flying with the AOA tighter on the back lines will make the kite sit back. Not flying as far forward in the window so being slower / stalling and more powerful. Same if your brake lines are a bit short.

Another thing to bear in mind with the Tensor is that most if not all come with a "bar" that can be converted to handles. The kite flies very differently on handles over its characteristics on a bar.
As to the space to fly concern, come on north to the Mojave, the Joshua Trees and sage brush do not care if you fly kites over them [you on the other hand may care if you fly kites into them :o:P

There are very few wrong kites. Just ones that work their way to the back of the pack.

I owned the Tensor 4.2

Actually it was my first Power Kite. I bought it used from a guy in San Diego while the wife was at a conference.

It scared me.

So I rarely flew it.

But I progressed my way through several other kites and then decided to take out the Tensor. My skills had surpassed the kite and I now considered it a toy. Plus, I had many other power kites in the same size. I knew I would never fly the Tensor.

Sold for $100, the same I paid for it.

With this said...I am in Sunnyvale CA for work. If you are within driving distance, I will visit you on a weekend and I'll get it flying for you.

Perhaps SoCal is San Diego?

Paul

Thank you so much to everyone who has responded so far. What a wonderful group of people I have stumbled upon here!

I've always been isolated in this sport, as I didn't realize there were so many others who shared my passion. It's a great feeling to read your posts... I really appreciate all of them.

Quote: Originally posted by windlover

Thank you so much to everyone who has responded so far. What a wonderful group of people I have stumbled upon here! I've always been isolated in this sport, as I didn't realize there were so many others who shared my passion. It's a great feeling to read your posts... I really appreciate all of them.

If you really want your eyes popped open permanently, please consider joining us at IBX 2019 on Lake Ivanpah. Depending on where you live in SoCal this shouldn't be too terribly far for you.

http://www.ivanpahbuggyexpo.com/

You've likely driven through Lake Ivanpah many times. It is on the CA/NV border right next to Primm, NV, that odd "Oasis" with an Outlet Mall in the middle of nowhere. We fly kites and ride in buggies on the side of I-15 opposite the big solar array.

Even just driving up for a day would open you up to a whole new world of power kiting.

This is what I was thinking! Rev kites are a hoot to fly!!!

Welcome to the Forum!

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner

Have you ever looked into Revolution Kites? They seem like the answer to your wishes. By far the most entertaining kite to fly static IMHO.

I agree a 4.2 is a big kite for static flying. It will haul you about when you don't want it too.

Great advice guys, a second hand "Standard sail" (No venting) "Revolution" 1.5 style kite is the go.

Also consider a "Freilein" as they make fantastic Revolution style quad line kites too. Better in my opinion!

There are lots to see on the net. (My closest kite shop is 760kms away.)

There is a bit of a learning curve with a 4 line stunt kite, but being a flier you will certainly enjoy these style of kites. (and your arms will thank you big time.)

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

If you really want your eyes popped open permanently, please consider joining us at IBX 2019 on Lake Ivanpah. Depending on where you live in SoCal this shouldn't be too terribly far for you. http://www.ivanpahbuggyexpo.com/ You've likely driven through Lake Ivanpah many times. It is on the CA/NV border right next to Primm, NV, that odd "Oasis" with an Outlet Mall in the middle of nowhere. We fly kites and ride in buggies on the side of I-15 opposite the big solar array. Even just driving up for a day would open you up to a whole new world of power kiting.

Wow! Thanks for invite. That does look like it would blow my mind. Will definitely have to attend next year.

I just joked to my better half that we need to move to within 10 minutes of Lake Ivanpah! She reminded me that's probably over 110 degrees there and that I don't really do well in the heat. LOL

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner

Have you ever looked into Revolution Kites? They seem like the answer to your wishes. By far the most entertaining kite to fly static IMHO.

Thanks. I'm definitely considering trying one based on your recommendation and the recommendations made by others.

Do you have any experience comparing them with the HQ Mojo kites or the Freilein's?

Quote: Originally posted by mougl

This is what I was thinking! Rev kites are a hoot to fly!!! Welcome to the Forum! Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner   Have you ever looked into Revolution Kites? They seem like the answer to your wishes. By far the most entertaining kite to fly static IMHO.

Thank you for the warm welcome!

Do you have any experience comparing the Revs with the HQ Mojo kites or the Freilein's?

Quote: Originally posted by Chook

I agree a 4.2 is a big kite for static flying. It will haul you about when you don't want it too. Great advice guys, a second hand "Standard sail" (No venting) "Revolution" 1.5 style kite is the go. Also consider a "Freilein" as they make fantastic Revolution style quad line kites too. Better in my opinion! There are lots to see on the net. (My closest kite shop is 760kms away.) There is a bit of a learning curve with a 4 line stunt kite, but being a flier you will certainly enjoy these style of kites. (and your arms will thank you big time.)

Thank you for recommendation!

You're the third person here to recommend a Revolution or similar kite. I'm going to have to try them. Also why do you like the Freilein a little more? Have you tried the Mojo kites by HQ?

Based on your comments, and the comments of others, I've decided to sell the Tensor 4.2 to someone who will enjoy her more. See http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=34427

No I haven't seen or flown a Mojo kite by HQ. Would like to along with a Phoenix and Fulcrum.

I like the simplicity of a single leading edge with the Revolution style kite. Quick and simple to change rods in if the wind changes or wind is really light.

I have a lot of Revolution kites (13) with different sizings and solid sails or with different venting. (only my original 1.5 SLE bought new, the rest purchased second hand)
They are awesome kites.

I inherited 2 Freilein kites after my mate died of cancer and they are brilliant "Ebay" purchased kites. The rods "Crystal T2" are between a standard 2 wrap and 3 wrap Revolution Rod for flex. More importantly the rods are silky smooth like the finish on a fishing rod. Not like the shark teeth surface on the Revolution rods (when they are wrapped during manufacture) that continually hack away at your sail.

The Freilein sails are flawless, with not a stitch out of place and a vertical backing/wear strip stitched down each vertical spar position on the standard sail to reduce wear. (None on my storm vent sail.)
I now have 5 Freilein's with different venting.
In the top end "higher" wind ranges their venting designs and position of their venting is far superior to my 3 of, vented Revolutions in my blustery Coastal flying. Also these Freilein's have no leading edge mesh to tear, or wear out.
http://www.oceanshoreskites.com/framed_quadline.htm

Cheers Chook

100% Agree with Chook on the Freilein route.. Flawless QC and all the performance of a Rev at a much better price.

I have a HQ Mojo. It is definitely not a kite I would recommend to learn on. It is far too twitchy to be a beginner kite.

Quote: Originally posted by windlover

I just joked to my better half that we need to move to within 10 minutes of Lake Ivanpah! She reminded me that's probably over 110 degrees there and that I don't really do well in the heat. LOL

I know where there is an extensive high tech R & D facility that you can move to that has its own "private" dry lake bed and it has only been over 40 C 10 -15 times this year :evil:
Just keep your AC and or Swamp Cooler up and running and direct deposit your paychecks to the power company.