I'm about 225lbs and I am looking into getting a depower kite to add to my quiver, I fly in a variety of winds and locations, but I am looking to get some practice landboarding on the beach now that the tourist season is pretty much over. I was planning on going fixed bridle but everywhere it seems depowered is the best way to go. I plan to mostly be riding on sand, grass and hopefully be able to try out snow kiting. Wintertime winds tend to be a bit gusty around here but the ocean is usually pretty steady. I know kite sizing for depowers is a bit different, so I am wondering what sizes i should be looking for.

Just to put it out there, know you will need a harness to go along with that new DP of yours. Sizes of course depend on the wind strength and how "lit" you want to be. If you were to go the Peak route I'd recommend both a 6m and a 12m. They have wide wind ranges and will make a small, but workable DP quiver over a host of wind conditions from strong to just barely blowing.

In general, your DP kites need to be larger than the FB kites you would use in the same wind. There is no set ratio that I'm aware of as many factors need to be worked in but on days I've been buggying with a 6m DP my FB friends are down near 3m or there about. Others may well have far better advice.

Yup Im aware I need a harness, With the peaks is there any major disadvantage of them being single skined?

the guy is flying blades and wants to landboard...stop it w/ the bedsheets
go find an 8/9m twinskin...after that go like 12...or join the arc crowd
imo

I'm with abkayak on this. In a buggy, my 3.5m longstar2 (a single skin) is amazing. Instant depower and amazing windrange. On a board it leaves much to be desired for me at least. It is not very lifty (not that you should jump with a 3.5m) and it nearly rips me over the board before I can sheet out in the gnarly gusts we get around here. I much prefer my arcs that have a very smooth power build up and lift. I have heard peak 2's and 3's are better in the lift department, but I have never personally flown them.

If gusts are a problem for you, arcs all the way. Venoms and newer are what I would recommend, 12-13m is a good first Arc size. Other bridled twinskins newer than say, 2010-2012ish, should have good performance for not alot of money as well. Feel free to drop a few names of some kites you find and myself or others will chime in with if it's a good for

Definitely suggesting Peter Lynn Arcs, as stated on a board it's your best, most economical route. I'm actually going to suggest starting with 10-13 meter due to the conditions you are describing (grass thrown in the mix).

If you can catch a sweetheart deal on a flysurfer, that would also do the job.

Go to YouTube and check out CarlAtb and his videos. He has many many videos out there and many of them with the Arcs

I wasnt planning on doing much freestyle jumping a little lift is ok as long as i can control it. I am mostly interested in riding around, on the beach and hopefully in the snow this winter. Theres a couple of charger 2's and a peak3 up on the for sale page. Are the control gear/lines interchangeable between kite styles? (ex Twinskins and flysurfers)

also I had the blades before I even considered getting into landboarding.

If you are just wanting to cruise, definitely look into an into an arc. They have butter smooth power delivery and "gust munch", which means they wiggle around to dissipate the gust. Pretty neat actually. I fly almost exclusively arcs because of the gusts around here. Plus they are easy to set up (even though you have to preinflate them). Since you just want to ride around, pretty much any Arc will work:

S-arcs - very old at this point, I would not recommend them other than a novelty

F-arcs - they are superb low wind kites, if you know what you are doing. They are agressive, lifty, and slow turning. I would not recommend them until you have alot of experience.

Guerilla 1&2 - very good cruising kites. Very stable and turn slowly, upwind is good too. Not nearly as much depower as modern kites. I struggled with them for awhile on the board because I would take them out in too high of wind. They pull like a truck once they get going and are more powerful for there size than the newer arcs. Would recommend if you want to take it slow and putt around for very little investment.

Bomba - similar to the guerillas, bit with worse upwind and more sideways pull. Considered a beginner or wave kite( though I wouldn't take one on the water nowadays.)

Phantom 1 - very good cruising kite. Never flown one but there is a cult following of that kite on here so good luck finding one. It goes fast and goes upwind very well.

Venom 1&2 - the first modern arc. It out classes all the previously mentioned arcs in almost every respect. Faster through the window, faster turning, better upwind, more depower. That sportiness comes at the price of a bit of stability. Would recommend.

Vortex - similar to venoms,.but lower AR so more stable and more pull downwind. Still a decent kite if you can find one

Scorpion - high AR version of the venom, with VPC to make it turn faster and have even more depower. Very good land kite but also has very agressive lift if you send it.

Synergy - the scorpion and then venom had a baby and made the syn. It is a gentle all round and improves on both designs quite abit. Peter Lynn himself even said that this is the pinicle of Arc design. Would recommend.

Charger 1 - it took the syn and gave it steroids. It pushed all out performance to the max and paid the price of twitchiness and loss of stability. Some early kites were also assembled incorrectly and would tip clap. Would not recommend to a beginner or someone who wants to cruise. This is a performance kite.

Phantom 2 - nothing really like the original phantom, more like the scorpion 2. That being said, it has smoothed things out from the original scorpion and is a wicked all around land based arc. I would recommend this the most if you got the cash.

Charger 2 - the charger with all the kinks worked out. Very good kite. More for jumping and performance than the phantom.

And that's about it for arcs. I hope you found it informative and it helped you make a decision.

even if zanzabar got nothing from the post (of course he did) i learned a great deal from it. this is an excellent writeup for anyone like myself that lacked basic arc kite characteristic knowledge.
thanks for taking the time to write it.
tom

Snake...nice job
Zanz...i love my arcs but they are a bit more work to set and pack up which cuts into fly time
if your riding the beach i must assume your not exposed to the gusts like the inland folks...which is a
big reason many want to fly arcs...twinskin(foils) are just easier all the way around in learning dp...imo
i wouldn't worry about control sets for other kites w/ this purchase just get a compleate ready to fly kite now
needless to say if you can watch or try somebody's stuff first to get the feel of it thats what you'd want

Thanks Snake!

I've been tempted to join the arc crowd, but really had no idea how they compared. You've helped narrow the search (and build excitement ) for a new-used toy.

Quote: Originally posted by tomdiving

even if zanzabar got nothing from the post (of course he did) i learned a great deal from it. this is an excellent writeup for anyone like myself that lacked basic arc kite characteristic knowledge. thanks for taking the time to write it. tom

I strongly second this emotion and the others that followed. Best write up I'd ever seen about a topic I was curious about. I've watched in awe the times I've seen Arcs in flight (IBX, SOBB). They are amazing kites to see and I completely understand how they would be such good options for the situations described. I'm not heading down that road but I greatly appreciated the description.

Great write up Snake!

You can add Charger 3 to the list, the only arc that's still being sold by PL. Pretty much Charger 2 with a different color scheme and a little lighter cloth.

Wow, I was not expecting such a response to my post. I will make a new thread with more detail soon so this thread doesn't get hijacked.

Quote: Originally posted by Snake

Wow, I was not expecting such a response to my post. I will make a new thread with more detail soon so this thread doesn't get hijacked.

Thanks Snake for all that info it definitely was is the information i was looking for. While the beach is probably the best place for me to fly, all my local spots are inland(1hr vs 5 min) I don't mind being a bit spendy if it gets me the right kite. The venom 2's and phantom 2's sound pretty good, my friend who first got me into kite flying had an old 18m phantom he used to try to fly. lets just say I learned what not to do from him....

Ive looked around online and while venoms would be pretty cheap(they were 2 years ago) they seem pretty hard to find, theres a couple of phantom2's up on the sale forum but theyre a 6m and a 15m, would that leave too much of a windrange gap between them? especially for someone of my weight?

A 6m is for nuclear winds. The kite will be very fast and in the winds needed to get going, things can go bad very fast. Too small to start out on.

A 13m venom is about perfect to start out on. In a 10ish mph breeze it has very little pull and flys well enough to get a feel for the kite. I can hold down my 13m venom up to about 25mph winds, granted it gets to be a handful that in that wind. I have heard from the synergy onward, arcs got less power per square meter on the upper end. A rough comparison would be a 13m venom goes to a 15m synergy. I think that the phantom 2 15m would be about the same, but I'll let others chime in since I have never flown anything newer than a venom. Just remember to start out in low winds.

Here is a kinda kooky comparison of the old phantom to the new phantom:
https://youtu.be/jmC22Pex9w8

My first two depowers were Venoms. A 10m and a 16m. Solid kites. Slow IMO but solid. I currently have a 15m Phantom II. It's faster turning and smoother power build up than the Venom IMO. I'm a buggier not a boarder so it's going to be different but the 15m is workable around 6-7mph starts to come alive around 10-12mph and is full lit at 15-18mph. Again...keep in mind I'm in a buggy. I weigh 300lbs, The buggy 120lbs. ARCs are not low wind kites. While you can get them going in low'ish wind. You will struggle, I mean struggle. But their stability, smooth power build, gust munching, and auto Zenith ability is second to none. Avoid the SS bedsheets. Find a nice Flysurfer or Ozone foil. Preferably a newer one with the reride. Since you already are flying fixed bridles. If you go with an Ozone. Skip the access for lower wind. They are far superior in the higher winds and smaller sizes. Find a good cheap frenzy or a summit. I recently was blessed with the opportunity to fly a Summit V4 10m at SOBB. Wonderful kite. Very grunty, fast turning, very stable. I really enjoyed this kite. Winds were 12-15mph. There are obviously some other good options out there. These are simply my experiences. The Montana is a good kite but unlike the frenzy or the summit. The power build up is much more...I wanna say explosive but...that's not the right word. If your gonna go the arc route the 13m venom is a good choice. Although I'd recommend a venom 2 or newer one with the VPC bridling. Phantom 2 in a 13 or 15 would be a good first choice as well. The Phantom is much lighter material than the venom. This is obvious in a side by side comparison and also become obvious in the kites bottom end. There is more than enough info on here to help you make an informed decision. No matter what kite you get. You can never go wrong with ANOTHER kite haha.