hey - III 3m blade and 2.7 pl vapor... apples to apples? apples to oranges? strawberry to watermelon? are these AT ALL similar in how they go about things?
i see a A/R of 5 for both, which is making me wonder.
would the "little" vapor be any good whatsoever for lightish wind static flying, or will i just be running or getting dragged everywhere?
any input, as always, is greatly appreciated.
thanks!
tom

I've flown small lifty kites and I've flown the small vapor.... Really the only difference will be the lift... Their both fun and fast, but in high winds that blade will bea tad dangerous i e. Pretty unpredictable if you have gusty winds

light wind flying they are just 3m kites and thats what fun is all about
but neither will do what it does best till they are fully powered
thats when you gotta keep them moving or risk getting caught out there
imo...buy them both fly the blade a bit and then sell it to me

I've heard the Blade is lifty.
I've heard the Vapor is fast.
What I don't understand is what is the difference between lifty and fast; aren't the kites just moving in a different direction?
I won a 3m Peter Lynn voltage at IBX. It is supposed to be their lifty jumping kite. I haven't had a chance to fly it yet. It looks long and skinny,( ie. higher aspect ratio) on the living room rug. What makes it a jumping kite, rather than a regular race kite is beyond my understanding. I think it has something to do with how fast the power is delivered.
If I had the choice, I'd be all over the Vapor because my buddy Sandflea adores them, and that guy can fly a kite!
abkayak has it almost right. Buy them both, then sell the Vapor to me
colin

i've read and re-read this a few times in the past. just one of many great articles from angus campbell. http://coastalwindsports.com/LiftAndPull.html

i understand the concept... mostly. i know that there's no way in he** that anyone in their right mind should be jumping with a 3m kite UNLESS you're possibly a midget dwarf that weighs 30 lbs.

since the blade and vapor are a bit similar physically, i'm wondering that if i were to use it as an engine and kept it where a vapor would be flown, it SEEMS that they should perform in a similar fashion. i wish it had the bridle adjuster so i could play with it more. i may take one off of a rage or make something to just bring in the A bridle a smidge and let out the C bridle a smidge.
flying it static as is - is like i'm getting robbed. hands straight up in the air. and it doesn't take long for the blood to stop flowing up there.
i do think that the vertical-ness of that flying will come in handy if i ever get on my landboard. it should give me something to hang onto and balance on the board better than something with more lateral pull.

mr. kayak - there's a couple of 4m blades on ebay now. a couple of 3m's came and went in the past few weeks. seems that the UK is loaded with them.

The vapor will run out in front of the wind window. It is designed to be low drag which makes its max speed so high before it stops increasing forward speed. The blade has to be the opposite to be lifty. However, Craig sparks went over 63 mph with like a 4m Blade. Maybe it had to be bigger because it was less efficient. The vapor is easy to fly in a full circle around yourself and the Blades are more difficult to do that.

I've only flown a 4.9 and 6.5 Blade. The IV was an amazing kite. I did a thread here about the Blade is King. But I can't imagine wanting a 3m one.

Its to do with aspect ratio, the blade is more an oval egg shape so lots of lift, wont fly as far into the window. The PL is more a stretched egg, longer and thinner, sits further in the window, less lift and faster. Blades have always been know as widow makers and are favorites with buggy jumpers.

I see it like kiteboyza described but you saying they have the same aspect ratio throws me off.

With the more blade shape of the Vapor VS the egg shape of the Blade I would expect the Vapor to have a higher aspect ratio?

I feel that a skilled pilot might fly the Vapor in lower wind but the Blade will be MUCH more user friendly in that situation.

from angus's past writeup -

Blade IV from Flexifoil - A powerful kite for intermediates and experts only. They are the undesputed king of lift. A/R = 5
Vapor by Peter Lynn - Full blown race kite for buggies- Took top 3 and 7 of 10 top places in the 2010 World Cup. A/R = 5 - (for the 2.7)

both have 30+ cells.

i understand that the blade is bridled for a little higher A of A, but if i relax that with the flexi bridle adjuster, it SEEMS that they should perform similarily.
however, if that's truly the case, then i would expect that there would be lots of people buggying around very quickly with let-out blades.
i'm wondering why that hasn't been the case.

tom

Quote: Originally posted by tomdiving

... if i relax that with the flexi bridle adjuster, it SEEMS that they should perform similarily. however, if that's truly the case, then i would expect that there would be lots of people buggying around very quickly with let-out blades. i'm wondering why that hasn't been the case. tom

i recently bought a 4.9 blade iv and i plan on using it in the buggy in low-lift setting... ill let y'all know... its been a while but ive flown similiarly sized vapors so it *might* be considered a well-informed comparison

just flew the 3m blade. the 4.9 must have 30 cells. the 3m only has 26.
wasn't enough wind to do much with the 3, but a 5m blurr flew very well in the low wind condition. that's another reason why my question originally came up. the blurr is supposed to have a fairly high AR, and it's become my go-to low wind kite, taking the place of my 5m hq toxic.
tom

just got a reply from flexifoil regarding the A of A adjuster for the III 3m. it won't work on that kite. i had read that it would work on the larger sized III's and was hopeful that my 3 could benefit from it.
i'll assume that flexifoil knows more about bridling than i do, and leave the 3m as is.
a 2.7 vapor should be hitting my doorstep soon, so i suppose that some testing is in order.
i'll play with it static, then take the 2.7 and 3 to test-dummy brother's house so he can fiddle around with them in his buggy.
if he survives, i shall report back.
tom

these two are so similar (to my untrained eye) it's amazing. the blade is a couple inches thicker in the center, the vapor might be a couple of inches longer.
since flexifoil told me that the AAA adjuster won't work on the blade, i'll never really know if i can get these two to fly the "same."
tom

Thought all Blade III's had A0A adjustment.

It's just several knots on the bridal line set up if it has A0A adjustable, right...?


Are you saying it has no adjustment knots.... or it has, but they don't work?

My Blade II can not be adapted to AOA. The bridles cascade in groups rather than ABC rows.

The bridle of the Blade II should be very different if you look.

there's definitely NO adjuster setup on the 3m. from my understanding, the AAA was used starting with version IV, but the larger sized III's could use the adjuster.
when the vapor loads, it's all business. it will help me get ready for the olympic track events next year, and i'm not even a runner.
tom

The Blades have a higher angle of attack. The Vapors have a smaller cross section, meaning thinner cells from top skin to belly skin. The Vapor will outrun the window and easily fly past the edge if you don't keep brake pressure on it or turn it away from the edge. The Blades can charge right at the edge of the window and settle back before they overfly. I have not flown a vapor, but I have flown the newest Reactors, which are half-siblings. I have flown a few Blades in the 4-7m range. The Blades are very forgiving kites in terms of making mistakes that would stall or overfly faster kites, but the faster kites are less likely to rip you out of the buggy during a tack.