I love the Peter Lynn Vapors. They speak to me and I do not fly much else. I typically only buggy once a year (IBX) and it is always on the abrasive playa. My Vapors are all in pretty poor shape. This is 100% the fault of my flying style.

When I repaired my favorite, the 3.8m Vapor, I had to add tape on all 30 seams!

Finding Vapors is difficult, extremely expensive and they are rarely for sale USED. Therefore I started searching for replacements.

Several people recommended Pansh. I saw they have a "new" race kite that took 10 years of R&D before it was released. I was sold.

Since I am the "all-in" kind of guy (as me why I have 5 sets of rims and tires for my 2018 car!) I ordered the Pansh Cerberus 3m, 4m, 5m, 6m, 7.5m and 9m. Each with upgraded 25m lines and normal size handles. I also bought two sets of longer handles for the two larger kites.

It took about 6 weeks to arrive after order. They shipped on a Tuesday and received on the following Monday at 9am through FEDEX.

This lengthy thread will provide you with information that is rarely published on this low-cost alternate. Although some consider it a controversial company, I saw it as a viable option for a very narrow market.

Pansh Website - Cerberus summary



iPaul

Package as received from Pansh.



Packaging (Notice the use of cardboard to insure anyone cutting the box does not damage product (i.e. Customs!)).



Open box (stuffed full with a 10 ton press):



All six kites & 2 sets of extra handles in a row.



3m Pansh Cerberus, 25m lines and handles in blue bag:



4m Pansh Cerberus, 25m lines and handles in blue bag:



5m Pansh Cerberus, 25m lines and handles in blue bag:



6m Pansh Cerberus, 25m lines and handles in blue bag:



7.5m Pansh Cerberus, 25m lines and handles in green bag:



9.0m Pansh Cerberus, 25m lines and handles in orange bag:



Extra set of handles (x2 ordered):

4m Pansh as packaged in blue bag:



25m lines and handles (all six have same) packaged with each kite. I upgraded to 25 from 20m lines. The smaller handles will work well with under 5m but the larger kites would benefit from longer handles:



Stock handles packaged with each kite. Rubberized on top and bare metal (assumed to be aluminum) on bottom:



Stock handles mounting (close-up):

3m Pansh Cerberus:



3m Cerberus length of approximately 154 inches (or 58 Barleycorn to my good friend Cerebite who enjoys random and obsolete measurements - i.e. "Dirt Nap was nearly 0.13 Arabic Miles from its true GPS location!")



3m Cerberus Top-to-bottom width of 35 inches:



4m Pansh Cerberus:



4m Cerberus Tip-to-Tip length of ~178 inches:



4m Cerberus Top-to-bottom width of ~40 inches:



4m Cerberus power and brake attachments:



4m Cerberus power lines (notice the adjustment knot):



4m Cerberus brake lines:



4m Cerberus Pansh logo on back of kite:



3m (top-right) and 4m (bottom-left) Cerberus comparison in length:

I wanted to see how the 4.5m Peter Lynn Vapor compared to the 4m Cerberus.
They are exactly the same length and are essentially shadows of each other.
The 4.5m Vapor is just slightly wider as you would expect:


(Concentrate on the grey kite peeking out from under the red in these pics)







4m Cerberus on top of 4.5m Peter Lynn Vapor. Separated slightly to highlight the same style of bellows. Again, same:



3m Cerberus on top (right) and 4m Cerberus on the bottom (left):









Yea there are a lot of pics. But when you were 15 did you ever wish there were LESS pics in your contraband adult magazines?? I rest my case.

I'll update this post as I fly them and can report back on their "out of the bag" performance. I'll also post a picture comparing the 3m to the 9m ("the whale").

I hope you enjoyed!

iPaul

I must say, iPaul, that bridle adjustment feature you noted in pic 47 (or was it 57?) had to have been a welcome, and I suspect, surprising Easter Egg of a discovery. It's almost as if they knew some of their bridle lengths will necessitate this. :evil:

Great post and keep us informed about the performance
of This Pansh serie

I purchased all of the same sizes several years ago when they came out with them. I bought the 3m first to try it out. It was as fast as any other 3m race kite and had handling characteristics I was happy with so I bought the rest. I don't regret it at all. They're well made kites that fly well with no problems to speak of. I adjusted the AOA to my liking (which I do to all my kites) and they've been flying well ever since. No fabric problems, no bridle stretching, no trouble at all. And the 3m has had a lot of hard miles. The only complaint I have is the 9m has a crap turn rate. That's not a Pansh problem really since all FB kites 9m or larger turn like a bus. The last 11m Vapor I flew was a tank. The 7.5 Cerberus turns fine.

I own flexifoil, ozone, switch, flysurfer, cabrinha and others so I'm happy to spend the money on their products,,,,,,, however,,,,,, I prefer handles in a buggy every time over a bar. So since all manufacturers have dumped their fixed bridle kites Pansch is the only option. I for one am glad and grateful that Pansh still makes quality kites that I enjoy and can't get anywhere else. The low prices are just icing on the cake.

Of course you'll pry my Blade IV's from my cold dead hands but the Pansh Cerberus is a great race kite. No question about it.

One question. Where did you get the larger handles? They look pretty nice.

Thanks for sharing your experience with the kites Joey

Quote: Originally posted by kteguru

Where did you get the larger handles?

You could try here: AWindofChange

Quote: Originally posted by kteguru

One question. Where did you get the larger handles? They look pretty nice.

They sell them with the kites and only if you buy the kite.

They are shown on their website:
Handles

I do wish they made 2 sizes smaller than the 3m. I'd love to get something like a 1.8m and 2.0-2.3 m kites.

I flew them all but 6m today. Once I get some time I will post my opinion. But, quick summary...I did not fly any through the power zone based on the wind. And the 9m and 7.5m only flew perpendicular to the ground in a hover.

Hey I just checked...Cerberus is a multi-headed dog in Greek. Awesome!

iPaul

What strikes me how much the bridle resembles a PKD Joy from 2004...

Thanks for the link Jeepersjoey . I thought they only had one type of handles. Good to know.

I'm not sure there's much need for smaller than the 3m. If they had a 2m I'd buy it but I've had the 3m in 22mph winds and it wasn't quite at its limit. Around here though, once winds get above the mid 20's it becomes gusty and I just put up a tube. May be different out on the dry lakes though. Let us know when you get some time on them what you think.
Cheers

Those upgraded handles look WAAAAY better than the regular ones!
Looking forward to hearing about flights.
I see the half price sale is gone... bit of an investment in untried kites. I have never had an issue with Pansh kites, but their customer service was not great for me. I suspect most of the trouble was in translation and descriptions on the website. They still owe me a 3m kite and a discount on rtf packages. Every once in a while I used to try and resolve this. I have since given up. I hear there is a new Rose, maybe she has straightened things out.

... and as fixed bridle flyers, beggars can't be choosers these days.
I feel like there must be sooo much ripstop in untold garages and basements across the continent, never to see the light of day again.

Quote: Originally posted by ColinW

... and as fixed bridle flyers, beggars can't be choosers these days. I feel like there must be sooo much ripstop in untold garages and basements across the continent, never to see the light of day again.

Completely agree. The general problem is always reaching the right people. Countless times over the years I've confronted that same basic problem of trying to source discontinued products for some certain part or the other. Just this week I saw on a land sailing FB site some poor soul asking the community where he could get used Manta parts. Good luck fine fellow, good luck. One puckish responder suggested a 3-D printer!

I agree with you Colin; there are no doubt countless crispy FB racing kites sitting in people's storage areas that were flown once and put away after they scared the living you-know-what out of some poor soul.

I'm curious what the loops on bottom of handles is for. I'd think you want a loop at top for strop.

I am also interested in a Pansh or two for trying different styles inexpensively. Kicking myself for not getting one of the clearance kites last week before they disappeared.

scott - the loops are for pegging down the handles on the brake end when you want to land the kite and leave it for whatever reason. i just drop the back ends of the lines around my ground stake instead of using the loops.
it helps to use the same handle order every time. i always set my right handle down first, which lets me always pick up my left handle first instead of grabbing the wrong handle inadvertently.

edit - check at the 2 minute mark - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FFVFffvXrQ

some loops may not be big enough for large sand/tent stakes.

That makes sense. Wonder why they didn't bother on the nicer handles.

it will always be fashionable to bust on Pansh kites...
sorry, they did that to themselves
that said i hope to heaven these things work great in case i run
outta 3m kites in the back of the forementioned closets

What have the done? IP theft?

Many have had pblms working outta the box rather bag
i won't accuse them of knocking off other makers work...
that would be bad

Yeah, there is always interesting commentary when it comes to Pansh. I've never had a problem with any of their kites but then again I only own 8 pansh kites (6 cerberus/2 aeolus) so there may well be some out there that don't fly out of the bag like you mention. And those I have were bought around 2018 so things may have been different in the old days. I have no idea.

Of course I've also seen plenty of people who have trouble hooking up a 4 line or 5 line kite and then blame the kite. And since Pansh has generally been the low cost alternative it naturally brings people in that may be new to the sport, don't want to spend much, and don't really know what their doing which just exacerbates the problem of setting the kite up properly. Is the problem that the kite was made improperly or that the purchaser doesn't know what their doing? Who knows. Could be a little of both. 10-15 years ago I ran into a guy and his wife at the beach that were having trouble flying so I buggied over to them and asked if they could use any help. The kite was a HQ crossfire that he bought new. He seemed like a bright enough fellow but I said let me go down and check the kite since something looked awry. Not only was the bridle in an unbelievable birds nest but he didn't even connect the lines to the tow points,,,,,they were connected to a knotted mess on one of the bridle legs. It took 30 minutes or so to correct everything but once things were ironed out and line lengths were corrected then it flew like a dream. The guy was perplexed and said it never flew that well for him. So, generally speaking, I don't have a lot of confidence that the consumer isn't at least sometimes to blame.

In addition, the rabbit hole goes deeper than most realize. Decades ago Peter Lynn contracted Pansh to make many of their kites at the time. Bright people recognize there is a catch 22 here. Going to an Eastern contractor to get your product made allows you to get the product to market faster or for a better price than your competition and maybe for a better margin for yourself. However it also carries the risk that said contractor will take your designs and sell them in their own stores/online circumventing the design/development cost. Of course there's a whole host of law's one can dig into but for the most part the only people who make out on the deal are the lawyers.

The tapestry of events that occur that allow us to interpret causation is always interesting to say the least.

Personally, I never had a need to buy a Pansh kite until everyone else dropped fixed bridle. So when I wanted/needed a new kite, Pansh was the only game in town. So far they've been working well for me. Your mileage may vary of course.

fantastic break down kteguru...you covered a whole lot there
that said...that red 3m does look interesting as hell

Quote: Originally posted by kteguru

Yeah, there is always interesting commentary when it comes to Pansh. I've never had a problem with any of their kites but then again I only own 8 pansh kites (6 cerberus/2 aeolus) so there may well be some out there that don't fly out of the bag like you mention. And those I have were bought around 2018 so things may have been different in the old days. I have no idea. Of course I've also seen plenty of people who have trouble hooking up a 4 line or 5 line kite and then blame the kite. And since Pansh has generally been the low cost alternative it naturally brings people in that may be new to the sport, don't want to spend much, and don't really know what their doing which just exacerbates the problem of setting the kite up properly. Is the problem that the kite was made improperly or that the purchaser doesn't know what their doing? Who knows. Could be a little of both. 10-15 years ago I ran into a guy and his wife at the beach that were having trouble flying so I buggied over to them and asked if they could use any help. The kite was a HQ crossfire that he bought new. He seemed like a bright enough fellow but I said let me go down and check the kite since something looked awry. Not only was the bridle in an unbelievable birds nest but he didn't even connect the lines to the tow points,,,,,they were connected to a knotted mess on one of the bridle legs. It took 30 minutes or so to correct everything but once things were ironed out and line lengths were corrected then it flew like a dream. The guy was perplexed and said it never flew that well for him. So, generally speaking, I don't have a lot of confidence that the consumer isn't at least sometimes to blame. In addition, the rabbit hole goes deeper than most realize. Decades ago Peter Lynn contracted Pansh to make many of their kites at the time. Bright people recognize there is a catch 22 here. Going to an Eastern contractor to get your product made allows you to get the product to market faster or for a better price than your competition and maybe for a better margin for yourself. However it also carries the risk that said contractor will take your designs and sell them in their own stores/online circumventing the design/development cost. Of course there's a whole host of law's one can dig into but for the most part the only people who make out on the deal are the lawyers. The tapestry of events that occur that allow us to interpret causation is always interesting to say the least. Personally, I never had a need to buy a Pansh kite until everyone else dropped fixed bridle. So when I wanted/needed a new kite, Pansh was the only game in town. So far they've been working well for me. Your mileage may vary of course.

Agreed! Great breakdown. Truly lived up to your guru moniker today.

Quote: Originally posted by kteguru

Yeah, there is always interesting commentary when it comes to Pansh. I've never had a problem with any of their kites but then again I only own 8 pansh kites (6 cerberus/2 aeolus) so there may well be some out there that don't fly out of the bag like you mention. And those I have were bought around 2018 so things may have been different in the old days. I have no idea. Of course I've also seen plenty of people who have trouble hooking up a 4 line or 5 line kite and then blame the kite. And since Pansh has generally been the low cost alternative it naturally brings people in that may be new to the sport, don't want to spend much, and don't really know what their doing which just exacerbates the problem of setting the kite up properly. Is the problem that the kite was made improperly or that the purchaser doesn't know what their doing? Who knows. Could be a little of both. 10-15 years ago I ran into a guy and his wife at the beach that were having trouble flying so I buggied over to them and asked if they could use any help. The kite was a HQ crossfire that he bought new. He seemed like a bright enough fellow but I said let me go down and check the kite since something looked awry. Not only was the bridle in an unbelievable birds nest but he didn't even connect the lines to the tow points,,,,,they were connected to a knotted mess on one of the bridle legs. It took 30 minutes or so to correct everything but once things were ironed out and line lengths were corrected then it flew like a dream. The guy was perplexed and said it never flew that well for him. So, generally speaking, I don't have a lot of confidence that the consumer isn't at least sometimes to blame. In addition, the rabbit hole goes deeper than most realize. Decades ago Peter Lynn contracted Pansh to make many of their kites at the time. Bright people recognize there is a catch 22 here. Going to an Eastern contractor to get your product made allows you to get the product to market faster or for a better price than your competition and maybe for a better margin for yourself. However it also carries the risk that said contractor will take your designs and sell them in their own stores/online circumventing the design/development cost. Of course there's a whole host of law's one can dig into but for the most part the only people who make out on the deal are the lawyers. The tapestry of events that occur that allow us to interpret causation is always interesting to say the least. Personally, I never had a need to buy a Pansh kite until everyone else dropped fixed bridle. So when I wanted/needed a new kite, Pansh was the only game in town. So far they've been working well for me. Your mileage may vary of course.

Agreed! Great breakdown. Truly lived up to your guru moniker today.

This is great information everyone. I appreciate the kite talks and opinions.

I won't really know how they perform until I get out on the playa (13 hrs away). It is tempting to run out for a day or two during Thanksgiving but I have been skunked more times than not during that time.

Kteguru: I agree that a newbie would have difficulty flying these right out of the bag. The power and brake knots were not The same place on all 6 kites. After seeing it I came to the realization that Pansh probably does a test and sets the knot where that SPECIFIC kite flies best. Makes sense.

iPaul

Ah...one more silly thing I noticed. And this is not unique to Pansh...

The lines that came with it are red and yellow. Red is power and yellow is brake. They were wound and not connected to the kite so the purchaser needs to connect them the first time.

The handles have black on power (top) and red on brake (bottom).

The kite has red connections on the power (top) and yellow on the brake (bottom).

So a newbie could easily hook the red lines to the brake (bottom) on the handles since they match and then go to the kite and connect the red to the power (top) since it matches as well.

And then wonder why the kite seems to squat when he/she pulls.
iPaul

Good point Paul. I never understood the use of different colors myself. When I started kiting all spectra came in one color, white. Sleeving, white. Bridle, white. Leaders, white. You just had to know what goes where. I remember some people would replace the leader lines on their handles when they wore out with brightly colored stuff just to be festive I guess. There was no red/left blue/right craziness. When I do my own handles I just use all black amsteel for everything. That is one downside of Pansh. They just use whatever color tickles their fancy I think. At least other manufacturers make an attempt to match colors up correctly.

Maybe if human society lasts long enough we'll see a resurgence of just using one color for everything with a note inside that says "Don't be an idiot, THINK before you hook this up". I'll probably be dead before then though

I've never been to the dry lakes but I always thought that with such an abrasive surface Pansh would be the kite of choice out there. When the kite gets too many holes you just order another one. They're cheap enough and easy to get without a big hassle.

I hope we all get some good air time in 2021!
Cheers

Mostly the Pansh depowers that got the bad rap, and typically because of the bridles. Very hit or miss from what I gather, some work right out of the bag, some you have to tweak. The kites/cloth have been pretty decent from what I've seen. For whatever reason, the FBs have been universally decent. At least the recent ones - I do recall a widow maker early on - maybe the Ace?.
Color coding lines may not be that useful on fixed bridles, but red/blue leaders are insanely helpful on an LEI when you're trying to rig on a super windy day.
Looking forward to hearing how this goes when you get a chance to use them.

Quote: Originally posted by kteguru

Good point Paul. I never understood the use of different colors myself. When I started kiting all spectra came in one color, white. Sleeving, white. Bridle, white. Leaders, white. You just had to know what goes where. I remember some people would replace the leader lines on their handles when they wore out with brightly colored stuff just to be festive I guess. There was no red/left blue/right craziness. When I do my own handles I just use all black amsteel for everything. That is one downside of Pansh. They just use whatever color tickles their fancy I think. At least other manufacturers make an attempt to match colors up correctly. Maybe if human society lasts long enough we'll see a resurgence of just using one color for everything with a note inside that says "Don't be an idiot, THINK before you hook this up". I'll probably be dead before then though I've never been to the dry lakes but I always thought that with such an abrasive surface Pansh would be the kite of choice out there. When the kite gets too many holes you just order another one. They're cheap enough and easy to get without a big hassle. I hope we all get some good air time in 2021! Cheers

Nothing to do with iPaul's superb thread, but snow kiters everywhere surely rejoiced the move away from white lines to, well, anything but white.

I am more than fine with my one-color line sets for handle-flown FB; there I completely agree with you. For my DP setups I've become fond of my blue brake lines and grey power lines, but it's whatever one gets used to I'd think.

Now... having your DP bar two different L/R colors, that's useful! I have great difficulty performing downturns on the playa (performance anxiety perhaps? :evil: ). I don't do them often, but when I do, I want to be sure to direct my kite up after the down swoop to avoid crashing the kite. The kite is low to the ground, it's fully inflated, the lines are taught, and you're still carrying good speed (the whole point) so putting the kite down at that moment on the harsh surface creates a giant sucking sound out of your bank account.

I was dialing in some new kites last week (my new Lynx kites) flying static on a grass field and I took that opportunity to practice down turns. I don't get to buggy often (couple times a year) and don't want to "practice" on the playa. Started to get it down a bit, but still screwed up a bunch of times; spinning the bar the wrong way, tugging on the wrong end (TWSS) and the like. Arg!