I have a tough decision to make. This will be my first power kite that will be solely used for jumping. I don't understand the huge price difference here. Is the Crossfire really worth that much more ($375 vs $256) or am I just paying for the name? Does the Crossfire have anything on the Beamer in terms of power or lift?

I've read so many posts arguing about the Blades and the Crossfire and then I just read about how great the beamer is. Where do they all add up?

Thanks. I can't wait to get out there.

Big difference in design objectives between the two kites.

Beamer: Having a lower aspect ratio and a design for stability makes it a great entry level kite. It yeilds good performance but is stable in all parts of the window and will absorb gusts better.

Crossfire: With a higher aspect ratio and more agressive planform, power comes on faster and the kite is much lifier. For this, some of the stability is given up; it will snap shut like a mouse trap at the edge of the window if you do not stay on top of it and anticipate it. Not recommended for first timers.

From another recent post in this forum...
"I have an almost brand new HQ Crossfire 3.2 for sale. I wanted a 'smaller' kite for high winds but this thing pulls more like a 5m Beamer...."

A customer of mine just flew his Beamer III 3.0 and a Crossfire 3.2 back to back in the same wind. Part of his comments....

" The B[eamer] is like a big pillow in the sky. Very easy to launch, turn, recover. It’s power comes on slowly and in tune with the wind. The crossfire is like fighting a big saltwater fish that is jumping. It is brutal when it grabs the wind, but yet that has a thrill factor with it."

(thaks Bobby for a great report- good comments)

So yes they are all great kites but clearly for different reasons and different audiences.

Thanks for the quick reply. If I got the 4m beamer, even though it is like "pillow," would it be powerful enough to get some good jumps in?

Any kite will lift you in enough wind, including the Beamer 4.0. The problem with any kite this size is the let-down. A kite this size will often lift you in a gust bu then drop you even faster when the gust goes, as the kite is not floaty enough for an easy let down. Conventional wisdom says that 5.0m and up will do the job for most people with the proper skills.

Even with the right size, there are skills needed to execute a jump with a proper let--down. See this popular animation for a demonstration of a jump with a proper "re-direct". ...
http://chris.m.whittaker.googlepages.com/pendulumjump

The paradox for newbies wanting to jump is that there is no entry level kite suitable for (intentional) jumping, and any kite suitable for the task should not be in the hands of a beginnner.

If this is going to be your first power kite, go for the Beamer and have a blast with a great kite. But don't expect great airs without great risk of injury.

After you are proficient with that and you still want to jump, get a larger Blade or Crossfire.

I have Crossfire 7.7 that I have been using for light air work in the buggy. fliying static (on my feet) I can jump in less than 10 mph with it and it will let me down easy even if I don't re-direct, but the difference will be how far and fast I go down wind when I land. But it is such a beast.

I agree with Angus, but depending upon how much you weigh, a 4m beamer may offer enough float. That is not to say that low aspect kites like the beamer, like Angus said, don't pick you up fast and drop you, but if you are light, you may get by with a 4m.

I was jumping with my 2.5 jojo yesterday. Of course, the pop in the winds I was out in was good, but I confess that a number of the landings hurt my legs and jarred my kidneys - good fun all the same (I weigh 145#s).

I am pretty sure that I am going to go with the Crossfire 5.0 for two reasons. I am an adventurous person who likes that unexpectedness of the crossfire and doesn't mind biting (a little) more than I can chew while starting off. Also, I found a great deal on the Crossfire 5.0. That pretty much put me over the edge.

Sorry for the double post. In case I wanted to get into it later on, how would the crossfire work with kite landboarding? Do they use completely different kites and sizes?

Aw jeez, this sounds llike your first kite and this is a really, really bad idea.

Your gonna get the livin' shirt kicked out of you. Even if you try to compensate by flying in light winds, you will just get frustrated with that kite if it's anythng but the smoothest coastal winds. And even a 5.0 Beamer is generally not a good kite to start with because of size.

How much do you weigh, or put another way, what size body bag do you take?

To answer your other post, yeah, its good for land borders 'cuase they like lifty kites for air. But that is the one of the worst kites in any size to try to learn a 'board with.

Ok. I will take your advise and go with the Beamer. I guess its better in one way that it is 100 bucks cheaper. Is a 4m still too big? I don't know the body bad sizing system however I am 6'1'' 170lbs.

Sorry for my terse post. For my own customers I would always like a bigger sale but on the other hand I want them healthy and happy enough to be a repeat customer.

For 170 lbs 4m is large-ish but at least with a Beamer you can fly it first in lighter winds and it will remain stable. My first at 200+ lbs was 4.5 m Profoil (Not available new now)and it was a handful. I quickly got a smaller size and learned faster with more available flying time (wider wind range).

Do some reading up first and then start out in 8-10 mph winds and you will do fine (and have safe fun) Then later on you can move up to higher winds as you feel comfortable and have some small jumps.

chiefsmurph , I think you've already decided against the crossfire 5M as your first kite and I just want to second acampbell advice about it, it's a big for a beginner and can be quite a handful. I started with a 1.8M beamer, and then went to the 5M Crossfire and it can still be quite nasty to me, don't get me wrong it's fun and eventually I'm sure you'll be looking at it again, but i can't imagine this thing being my first I would've been in a world of serious hurt.

OK. I will get the beamer iii. I've got a friend who has a 5m crossfire so I'm gonna go out with him one of these days just to see how bad it is to me.

I'm 250lbs and still have days that I go down to a 3m Brooza for the Buggy and ATB. last week I was riding ATB on a 2m Brooza. Buy the smaller kite. Your buddy already has the larger one, you'll have a more complete quiver between the two of you. 3m should be good.

cheifsmurph check out the profoils http://www.kiteinnovations.com/Profoil.htm price cant be beat, and very fun and durable kite!!

I can second the vote for the ProFoils. the 2.5 or 3.5 would be good choices and they are good deals.

I just bought the beamer, but I wouldn't mind buying another kite for that price. Hopefully I could get another friend out there to fly with me. With those ProFoils, I would have to attach my own kite lines?

Yep, the Pro-foils come with handles but no lines (or kite killers). Figure $50-80 for lines and $12-18 for kite killers.

Do you know if the company not making profoils anymore or are they just temporarily out of stock on the bigger models?

No, Ted is folding up his tent and selling off his remaining stock. The 5.5's appear to be gone, but you don't what that for your first kite. the 3.5 would be ideal.

Oh cool. I didn't see the other colors were not out of stock.

I'm curious. If I buy a kite with line, does that mean I have the option of making it a 4 line or a 2 line or does the kite itself determine that?

The kite itself will determine that, depending on how it is bridled. Some 2-line kites come with pre-sewn bridle loops at the trailing edge to add rear lines later. But you would neeed the rear bridle and that is not somethiong you want to try to make yourself- at least not right away. Better to buy as a four-line from the start.