Most of the buggying videos that I've seen show pilots using handles rather than control bars, but I have seen a few bars out there too.

As I get started with quad line kites with buggying in mind, I'd like to know what you buggiers prefer to use and why?

Much better control with handles. Easier launching and landing as well.

Handles, same reason gilligan mentioned. - Brian

I like the free hand(s) the bar allows. In light air ya need the finesse the handles allow, though. If the weather ever stops this BS I'll try my re-rigged cross-over bar for the light air.

The cross over should work good in light winds, my 9m buster had one and it worked great, I usually fly handles though in the buggy, it's so nice having the use of the seperate brake controls. With a harness it's easy enough to fly one handed as well. I've got a QR and pulley setup on my harness, simply push/pull for steering, for long runs I'll set the kite so it's slowly nosing down, then add just a touch of brake as needed to keep the kite nosing up as needed.

I think often when you see folks running a bar and buggy in video they are flying depower kites.
Having said that, I am one of the converted ! I love my cross-over bars! The little I lose in control is more than made up for by the comfort ( familiarity to me ) that I get out of a bar and D-loop. As mentioned you can usually run 1 handed and often NO :o handed for long periods when hooked in ! I also feel a LOT more secure jumping hooked in with bar and D-loop.
Of course I'm also the one running on blades when the world is running KGB :duh:

I prefer handles and on a harness. When hooked in and powered up on a reach I'll normally be hanging on the opposite side of the buggy with one hand and steering the kite with occasional brake input on the top brake (as the kites going side on across the wind) to keep it going straight.

I've tried a bar too and was surprised it gives good control, but preferred it more for the depower ability rather than just because it was a bar.

I'd try both and see what you like!

Having flown the past three weeks without a harness, my 3.0m in 10-12 mph is taking its toll on my hands during long powered-up sessions. I'd love to see pics and a discussion of your "harness with handles" setups, Pablo and Khooke. What equipment are you using?

Before I got my harness my fingers would get numb. Using a harness problem solved.

Susan

Or You can fly them with handles no hands http://www.flickr.com/photos/slawek2006/592418344/in/set-721...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/slawek2006/sets/721576004348345...

Pro limit seat harness, hook type spreader bar, shackle, Wichardt quick release, Climbing pulley, home made strop. On the bigger kites, Jon's pulley handles.

GulfSandEater - it can be as simple as piece of climbing rope (1 foot) tied across the tops of the handles (or larksheaded onto the pigstails coming off the top of the handles opposite the pigstails that your power lines are attached to, and then the rope is hooked under the hook on the spreader bar on the harness.

I've seen/heard people using climbing harnesses and windsurf/kitesurf harnesses. A Dakine Speedseat harness with a spreader bar and a hook on the front (like Pablo) works for me.

That would be a good starting point. It can get much more ellaborate from that point - quick releases and snatch blocks etc. If you search on FF forum for 'Wichard Quick Release Holt Allen snatch blocS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K- you'll find a bunch of posts and pictures of peoples setups.

Thanks everyone. I'm putting together some pieces to make a harness setup and thought I'd throw this out for comment.

Since I have a climbing harness and carabiners, I'm going to start with that rather than buying a seat harness and spreader bar.

I've got a Wichard 2673 Quick-Release Shackle coming my way from eBay.

Now I'm looking for a pulley. I thought about the Petzl Fixe or Mini based on some reviews on the FF forum. These are available from my local REI or online for about $30-$40. I like the idea of the sealed bearings as I fly at the beach. How is that Ronstan working out for you Khooke?

So my connections would be Climbing Harness --> Locking carabiner --> Swiveling Wichard QR Shackle --> Pulley --> Strop / Handles / Kite.

What do you think?

Those QR shackles are a bit pricey, although i'm sure you get what you pay for.
Does anyone know how the non quick release shackles work? I see these on ebay for about $20 do you just pull the small ring to open the shackle? If so these would be a great "budget minded" alternative

wichard on ebay

I've read on the FF forums that the piston style snap shackles are difficult to release under load and can become stuck with sand, whereas the QRs release fine under load. People say that in this case "you get what you pay for" is true. I tried to find a picture I saw earlier of what they mean by "piston style" on FF but I can't; however, the drawing I saw resembles the shackle in your eBay link.

Okay another question for when you all wake up in the morning:

Does it matter which direction I have the Wichard face? I've seen some people have the releasing side connected to the harness--D-shackling their pulley to the "bail" of the Wichard.

Alternatively, I've seen people D-shackle the bail of the Wichard to their harness--connecting their pulley to the releasing side.

Does one perform better than the other?

To Gulfsandeater...
if you value your "boys" don't use a mountain climbing harness..the pulls are from different angles than the mountain climbing harness ..you will experience a certain pinchy -ness from those harnesses...I speak from experience...I use a Dakine seat harness....and after the mountain climbing one....ooooh I feel the difference...which leads me to my next question for all you guys out there....Jock strap or no? and if no then how do you beat the "pinching problem"....??????

Dq

Good question, DQ! I see many posts of people using climbing harnesses on the FF forum, but they don't mention problems with the juevos. I went ahead a posted an inquiry over there...I'll see what they say.

Does anybody else here have "uncomfortable" experience using a climbing harness for kiting?

What I have done with my old climbing harness, is move the point where the crotch straps attach. From the back of the harness they now go between my legs and connect to the waist band where my hips are. This gives your 'gonads. loads of room, and no nipping.

Hey Mongo, do you move the front or rear attachment point for the croch straps?

Quote:

Originally posted by GulfSandEater How is that Ronstan working out for you Khooke?

So far I buggied with it a couple of times prior to SOBB and thought it was great. It's odd though because the sides are open and you can see the bearings - they look like either plastic or ceramic, but I don't think they are metal. So on the beach for SOBB I noticed when wet and laying on the beach it picks up a bunch of sand. Didn't seem to bother it though, just give it a shake and bash it a bit to get most of the sand off and away you go. I've no idea at this point how long its going to last - I imagine from getting the sand in there it's bound to wear, but no idea on whether that's a big deal or not at this point. I'll give you another heads up in a couple of weeks and let you know if it's still working!

Thanks for that Khooke. I went ahead and picked up the Petzl Mini with sealed bearings. I tried using my new harness setup this weekend for the first time--First with my Pansh Legend 3.0m and then with DaVinch's Blade IV 4.9m.

The setup worked like a charm. I haven't tried the pulley in the sand yet, though

Man, is it nice to take the load off the arms or WHAT?!!!1

two pictures for ya

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o7/ripsessionkites/Misc/r...

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o7/ripsessionkites/Misc/r...

It'd be helpful to see the pics of your setup. Thanks.

Quote:

Originally posted by GulfSandEater Thanks for that Khooke. I went ahead and picked up the Petzl Mini with sealed bearings. I tried using my new harness setup this weekend for the first time--First with my Pansh Legend 3.0m and then with DaVinch's Blade IV 4.9m. The setup worked like a charm. I haven't tried the pulley in the sand yet, though Man, is it nice to take the load off the arms or WHAT?!!!1

If i wanted to run a line from one handle to the other would i run the line from power line to power line?

Yup, have it come off the rear of the handles in line with the power line, if there's pigtails on the handles attach there, if not, wrap once around the handle above the power line, then once just below the power line and tie them off, this way they'll stay centered on the back of the power line.

Adjust the lenght so you can easily get enough throw to turn the kite sharp, but not to far away that the one handle gets out of reach on a full turn. A little trial and error will give you the perfect lenght.

Quote:

Originally posted by KiteProject It'd be helpful to see the pics of your setup. Thanks.

Sorry I'm slow responding to your request...I didn't check this thread for a while.

Here is a picture showing the climbing harness, carabiner, Wichard quick release shackle, and Petzl pulley. Cheers and fly safely!

Nice picture thanks.

Yeah, that's exactly what you're after. I think Slawek has a slightly heavier QR and pulley, but he's not exactly easy on gear. The one pictured above should easily do most people for quite a while.