I have read Scoops post and was a great help, thanks. But being new to this (i have only flown a friends power kite with 2 lines i think it was about 3m not sure) i still need some advice.

Now Scoop you recommended a 5m HQ Crossfire for jumping. I have looked at them and they look like a decent all round kite i will be using it for recreational so just having a bit of fun etc and maybe in the future getting a board. So looks like it would suit, but would that be to big.

Im 16 and weigh 9st 10lbs so quite light.

Now i don't really want to spend a lot of money they find i need to pay out again. So the question is what would be a decent all round kite with 4 lines on handles and not too expensive.

Thanks for your help.

I have no experience with Crossfires but I weigh 145 #s (I believe that is 10 stone-ish) and don't think you should start with a 5m foil. Eventually that would be great for you for jumping and traction sports but out of the box it may be a bit much unless you go out in real low winds and learn slow (and most guys don't have the patience to do that until they get spanked and then develop a real appreciation for what these kites can do - I'm trying to help you avoid a major spanking).

Typically 3-4m kites are the starting point so you can learn without getting hurt. As far as kites on the budget go, there are the Eolo Radsail Pros, the PKD Buster IIs, Pansh and HQ Crossfire or Beamer III and the Peter Lynn Pepper or Reactor. Those kites aren't all equivalent though as some are more lifty than others.

IMO, kites on 2 lines do not offer nearly the same amount of power as the same sized kite on 4 lines. Though I've had limited experience with 2 line foils I have had experience with "name" brand "trainer" 2 line foils in the 2-3 meter range. None of those were comparable to my 2.5 JOJO on handles. So don't make the mistake and assume that your new 4 line 3-4m foil will be slightly more powerful than your friends 2 line 3m. A good 4 line foil should offer quite a bit more power than what you've flown in comparable conditions.

Unfortunately there is no such thing as one kite that will satisfy all needs in all winds. It is just the way it is.

I suggest you avoid 2 line for learning. With the brake lines you get FAR more control + the abilaty to " reverse launch " when you crash the kite ( and you will ) That will save you a ton of time + agro' when learning.

Accept the fact you WILL need a second ( and then maybe 3rd ) kite. A good 3 meter will be perfect for learning + give plenty of power to entertain while you save up for something a bit bigger. That 3 meter will always be valuable. Either as a keeper for high wind + teaching friends or as re-sale. Used, small, quality kites re-sell at a very good price.

Have fun and keep safe !

So my best bet is to get a 4m and fly in low winds to start with. I don't want to get a second kite as this is a one off purchase and the aren't exactly cheap.

Would a 4m be good for jumping etc, does it produce enough lift?

I will definitely get a 4 line kite. Probably go for the Crossfire, or anyone got any experience with anything else that they would recommend?

Thanks.

I've seen some great pics from Jerry at racekites.com jumping with a 4m CF - that kite definately has lift in the right conditions but I don't know how aggressive it is so I can't tell you it would be a good kite to start on.

Unfortunately there is a learning curve with these things. They aren't toys and they can really hurt you. That being said though, you really don't want anything under 4m if you are going to be jumping or it won't have enough canopy to float you down.

Personally I'd prefer you start small and build up as you gain confidence and skill but if you can't / won't do that, I'd go with a 4m and start out in winds around 6mph.

I've seen a few reviews cautioning beginners that the Crossfire is less stable and less forgiving than, say, the Beamer. It might be a handful to learn on.

Hey Rickey

I just bought my first power kite and I went with a 3.5M Pansh Ace. I thought a 3m would be totaly boring but it is anything but that. If I would have bought a bigger more powerful kite I would probably be dressing my wonds and cleaning my soiled shorts. I went with pansh b/c I can buy a smaller one now and a bigger kite later for less than a crossfire.

Take if from another newbie, listen to the guys who know what they are talking about and start with a 3-4M.

Hmm in that case i think i will go for a 4m Beamer III, not to pricey aswell.

Quote:

Originally posted by ricky3510 So my best bet is to get a 4m and fly in low winds to start with. I don't want to get a second kite as this is a one off purchase and the aren't exactly cheap. Thanks.

I'm confused about why you think it will be a "one off" purchase :puzzled:
Do you plan to teach yourself to kite and then quit :puzzled:

Even with a 4m over a 3m you will want / NEED more power once you are riding :puzzled: Trust me on this one !

If you go with a 4m be carefull . Most folks feel that jumping with less than a 5m can be dangerous. You will get lifted, no problem. If you don't know how to keep the kite flying it won't have enough size to float you.

this is a second hobby for me, my main one is rc planes, helis and jets. So most of my money goes into that. I have some spare cash and thought i would take up kiting. What i mean by a one off purchase is i want to get something that i will be able to jump etc with. Im not going to be able to afford another for quite some time so would it be that bad a decision if i were to get a 4m or 5m crossfire and i suppose just learn the hard way. I dont mean to be ignorant to your advice, i am very appreciative of it, its just that i would like to get something that does what i want it to once i progress after learning the basics. Even if it means maybe going slighty in at the deep end. Thanks again for your advice.

Well, if your hobby is RC planes and helis, you don't need a very large kite as the larger kites are intended for days when there is less wind and those are the days that are better suited for your RC stuff.

I think a 5m CF means you'd be jumping in, not in the deep end, but in the middle of the lake. That kite, from what I hear, likes clean winds and needs to be flown (as opposed to just directed across the sky). I can jump with a 4m - you can too given your weight. But I jump with a high aspect 4m and a beamer III is lower aspect so it will pop you off the ground but isn't designed to have as much float - so you need to be careful. It would be better for your learning curve, but it will likely leave you wanting more down the line.

You are asking good questions and your logic is good if you know you are only going to be getting one kite (I also doubt that you will stop with one if you really enjoy it. It may take time to build a quiver but you will if you get hooked). If you want to jump and are COMMITTED to starting out slow and in low winds I'd go with 4m CF or Radsail (since your budget is limited) but I might give some serious consideration to Pansh kites (I think the ace is their lifty kite) and see if you can't get 2 kites (say a 2 and 4m or a 3 and 5m) for the price of what you are considering in just one kite.

That way you have a "trainer" which won't kill you and a kite you can have fun on too. Then the trainer becomes your high wind kite when you definately can't fly your RC stuff.

Though with Pansh you'll likely need to upgrade your handles and equalize (if not replace) your lines too.

Or be patient and see what comes up for sale at a good price.

I was prepared to pay around £200 so about $400 for one so im not on that tight a budget. It was said earlier that some people wouldn jump with anything below 5m as it doesnt provide enough lift once in the air. So would i get away with a 4m and being fairly light? Also how much harder is it to fly a higher aspect kite, what are the differences and if they are the better kite to fly once you have experience wouldnt it make sense to start off flying the kite that will be better for you im the future?

I forgot to mention, i am mostly likely to be flying the kite when i go flying because there is a big field there, also when i go to shows etc.

5m is a good general rule for jumping but at your weight you could be OK with a 4m (note the "could"). It all depends on the wind speed and how aggessively you fly and how much height you get. I've jumped and been lofted by my 2.5. Some were good landings and some hurt my knees and jarred my back.

I understand your point but I really don't want to see you get hurt or hurt anyone around you as that is both bad for you and the sport.

Some high A/R kites aren't too hard to fly (like the blade). Some require more tending (like the bego) and some require a lot of tending (race kites).

The problem with high A/R kites is that they are going to want to shoot out of the window, will be less tolerant of bad technique (meaning they'll likely collapse on you, fall into the power zone and reopen fully powered with you in a bad position) or they'll collapse and bowtie which will be frustrating to you. The upside is they are fast and lifty but then again, lifty kites tend to pull all the time. You can't park them at the zenith and take a break because they want to keep going. The conditions mentioned above aren't the best for new fliers to contend with.

You do want to have fun, afterall, right?

What's your tolerance for pain and frustration and risk? Most start on low to mid aspect kites so they can comfortably learn to fly the kite and have fun and gain confidence. When these kites yank you and spank you, that can be tough to regain your confidence from - especially if you get hurt or come close to hurting someone else.

Winds change faster than bones heal. I'm not trying to discourage you but you really don't want to bite off more than you can chew. The larger the kite you buy the smaller the window of opportunity you'll have to fly it. smaller kites can be flown in low wind with limited pull to help you progress and then be lots of fun in the right conditions. Bigger kites should be flown in less wind and will force you to pack up more quickly as the wind builds because they'll quickly become too much for you. and if one kite is all you're buying, I really think the 4m is the best bet (but again, start out slow). And if its a decent kite, you'll be able to sell it later to fund the purchase of something larger.

If you feel you must go with only one kite maybe a 5 would be better. As you realize you will be learning with a big weapon and could hurt yourself + others. If jumping is your only goal then a 4 will be too small / dangerous eventually. Not the best size to learn jumping either. With a big kite you WILL be tempted to fly it in too much wind and someone will pay .

I think the 2 Pansh kites idea is a good one. Having only one size of kite can be very frustrating. Those larger Aces are a crazy low price. The 2 should fit in your budget. Maybe a 3 for learning + teaching others + a 6 for jumping ? Even though the lines + handles are questionable you will have a spare set.

My tolerance levels are quite high so are my risk levels, bit of a dare devil but at the same time sensible (if thats possible).

I don't really want to buy a cheap kite because i believe with anything, you get what you pay for, although i may be wrong with kites. I don't want to have to buy new handles, lines etc, just want to go flying.

Ok so we are looking at a 4/5m kite. Which ones would you recommend, something in the mid aspect ratio range, i imagine would be most beneficial to me.

How would a 4m become dangerous? Not providing enough lift...

Those Ace's are really cheap, but are they good quality etc, or just cheap because its from China.

4m could be dangerous if it doesn't provide enough float which is different from lift.

In your price range for one kite you could look at the Crossfire or Radsail Pro series. If you can, I'd look for a Mac Bego 400. Its a 4m which is just awesome for static flying and jumping and has a ton of float for its size. It does take tecnique to get the most out of it and it may be out of your price range but if you can swing it and put some power rings on it - it will put a smile on your face. It is the type of kite you are looking for but will likely spank you the moment you take it for granted.

Other kites are flexifoil blades and ozone riots (now replaced by the haka) which are likely out of your price range.

Have you been to racekites.com? Go their and start reading their kite review section to hear what users of the kites have to say.

Right, i think it is now down to either the Radsail Pro 5m or the HQ Crossfire 5m.

Now the Radsail is 150pounds (on special offer) and the Crossfire is 218 pounds.

Is there much difference between these two kites, quality of materials, lift produced etc. On one of the reviews they said the Radsail was a bit heavy and hard to launch, and didnt really like low winds too much. Anyone had any experience?

Thanks.

Just reading up about the kites, the Crossfire is has an AR of 3 and the Beamer 3.4, i would of thought it the other way around.........

CF is higher A/R than the Beamer. I believe the stats you are looking at are not the same. The CF has a flat A/R of 3.9 and a projected of 3.0.

The Beamer III has a flat A/R of 3.4 so its projected A/R is likely 2.x.

The stats you posted are projected A/R for the CF compared to the flat A/R for the beamer - that's not an equal comparison.

The CF is higher A/R, higher lift, more aggressive, less stable.

Just in case its not clear, flat A/R is the A/R of the kite when laying flat on the ground. Projected has more to do with the A/R of the kite once it is inflated and moving through the air.

Aspect ratio = span squared / area (in case you need to figure it on you own when its not posted)

Ok i have made my decision now, im going to get a Pansh Ace 6m and a 3m. Now any recommendations for handles and lines as i have been told the Pansh ones arent very good.

The kites are now ordered.