Hi guys

I have ride on the water very few times when it's windy enough. So this is the main reason I own 2 flysurfer pulse (7m and 10m).

But this week I took a IKO lesson and the instructor did not want to give the class with my own kites, so I used an eclipse nano 9m.: an hybrid inflatable kite.

OK 5 minutes to pump the kite on the beach, and you need assistance to launch.

My impressions were:

easy to steer the kite, just one hand :-)
easy to park the kite at 3 or 9 and leave it there
easy to park the kite in the water and relaunch from water

and something I never tought about on the water, an inflatable kite is a nice rescue little boat to go back to the shore if in trouble.

I wanted to buy a new kite for light winds and I was thinking a FS speed2 or psycho3 but now I wonder if I should pump ???

thanks for all comments
buzz

No pump:o

Don't think for a minute that LEI's don't ever pop on the water, and with the one pump system, the whole thing can go flat leaving you stuck without a raft just like a drowned foil.

Personally I like the Arcs, way more stable than any LEI I've ever flown, wicked depower on the new stuff, awesome in gusty dirty winds. Only down side is poor low wind. The Flysurfer is another wicked brand, not quite as stable as the PL kites, But I hear they do good in the gusty stuff, good depower, both kites have good water relaunch.

With the PL Scorpion I've been flying though, honestly I've only had to relaunch it a handful of times, mostly due to low winds or a really bad wipeout. Most times I come to a stop and the kite's waiting paitently overhead.

thanks Pablo for the comments

i have already got 2 flysurfer pulse, which I like, so for now i'll stick with that

there is a guy here in town whos eclipse LEI kite blew up MID JUMP !!!! he jumped....floated, it exploded... he fell out of the sky and swam back to shore.

lame

also, a different fellow crashed his waroo and it RIPPED IN HALF.....of course he was swimming too.

another local fellow continued flying his foil kite with broken bridles and large rips in the sail after bad crash.... no swimming, the kite just pulled a bit to one side. but it still flew!!

NO PUMP

Quote:

Originally posted by speleopower No pump:o

Concur!

thanks guy for all the comments

I've decided to stick with flysurfer, and get eventually a speed2 as my lightwind kite.

Also i will try to get a a good deal for a used bow kite, that I may used when going unsure places, or not windy enough. There are so many of them cheap for sale. i will not loose too much $ on this.

Yup, stick with the twin skins, the foils are so much more durable.

I had a kitemare a couple weeks ago, kite (16m Scorpion) snagged on a passing log that was making good time upwind in the river current. I packed the whole mess up, dried out the kite, sorted the lines and seemed to miss the 4" tear on the kite, further inspection revealed that one of the ribs was torn from LE to TE internally. Of course I found this out 1 1/2 hrs from home with my new surfboard in hand on probably the most epic conditions I've had all year, some red tuck tape. Figured what the heck, may get in a bit before it gives out. Needless to say, best 4hr session of my life.

A tube and I would have been SOL

The foils are more durable plus hold their resale value better. I've had some of my foils since 2000 and they still fly just fine and I kitesurf a lot more than most people since I live about a 5 minute walk to the beach.

I've found that I rarely crash my kites anymore. When I do wipeout very badly I'm usually done for the day so it doesn't matter if my foil is wet.
With the open cell foils you can roll the lines up and pack them up in a mesh bag while in the water. When you get back to shore it's easy to empty the water out and get them dried out if it's sunny all within about 20-30 minutes.
I've seen LEI kites tore up from the surf.
I've never had a foil get tore up in the surf. I even wiped out during hurricane Jeanne here in Florida. The kite drifted to shore (took about 30-40 minutes) and I was able to pull it out of the water undamaged, I was able to untangle the lines back at the house. The kite still flys perfect. I dread to think what a LEI kite would have looked like after getting bashed for 30 or 40 minutes in hurricane surf!!!

I've had several closed cell foils and have had trouble getting the water and sand out of them after a surf wipe out. This is one of my main reason for flying open cell foils.

Powerzone is correct in that LEI kites seem to break down more often than good foil kites

Scott

Hey Buzz,

If you need to download a Pulse for the new kite, drop me a line. I need something for higher wind days. Cant comment on bows, sleis, or archs BUT the P3 is amazing. Hard to imagine a better 13m foil out there, maybe the 13m Speed 2 in the right hands? Ive got alot to learn and many many enjoyable days to come with this one!

Quote:

Originally posted by buzz Hi guys I have ride on the water very few times when it's windy enough. So this is the main reason I own 2 flysurfer pulse (7m and 10m). But this week I took a IKO lesson and the instructor did not want to give the class with my own kites, so I used an eclipse nano 9m.: an hybrid inflatable kite. OK 5 minutes to pump the kite on the beach, and you need assistance to launch. My impressions were: easy to steer the kite, just one hand :-) easy to park the kite at 3 or 9 and leave it there easy to park the kite in the water and relaunch from water and something I never tought about on the water, an inflatable kite is a nice rescue little boat to go back to the shore if in trouble. I wanted to buy a new kite for light winds and I was thinking a FS speed2 or psycho3 but now I wonder if I should pump ??? thanks for all comments buzz

Foils are not for everyone... but they offer INDEPENDANCE and SAFETY....which LEI kites lack.

IMO the safety on LEI is very sketchy and only afew people even install it. FS safety does exactly what it is supposed to do.

they do double as a rubber raft in rescue situations, but if you wreck your kite and it blows the bladder 1/2 mile offshore,,,, that of course does not help you. at least with the foil it will still fly. even ripped, broken, bowtied, etc.... it still flys.

also, alot of LEI are 1-2 season kites only... they stretch and lose performance. at least with a foil you can tune it back to stock.

and forget about snowkiting or landboarding... too fragile on LEI.

the windrange on your pulse 10m is amazing... i still have yet to experience the top end of that kite.... only been out in ~30knots and didn't even touch the trimmer for higher wind.... incredible kites....


well... i've said enough....

Well as usual, everyone has an opinion on this. Each kite style has its merits and downsides. The problem is that everyones tastes come from their style and likes. You can't just download someone else's opinion and it work fine for you. I just don't have a convenient way to immerse myself in the culture to have to tools to form an opinion. The durability of the LEI's has me worried but it was said that they are more durable now than in the past. I need to hit up my kiteboarding friends and go hang with them and do some body dragging and then give it a try with a board. I am awhile away from having a proper water kite but intend to try my open cell foils in the water going no further out than I'm comfortable swimming. I'll keep lurking on this stuff to keep picking up knowledge.

I'm sort of in the same position, I am looking at a low wind beast, like a slingshot machine either 17.5 or 20.5 meter. It is supposed to have amazing up wind and low wind performance and that is exactly what I am looking for. It is of course also water useable, which is something I really want with my next kite. Also I like LEI's for their lack of bowtieing a huge issue I have with my current kites. However I did look at ARC's but with bad low wind performance it really seems to turn me away. We have on average about 8-12mph wind, and I WANA JUMP!!!!!

Quote:

Originally posted by powerzone Foils are not for everyone... but they offer INDEPENDANCE and SAFETY....which LEI kites lack. IMO the safety on LEI is very sketchy and only afew people even install it. FS safety does exactly what it is supposed to do.

The LEI guys on the beach tell me that the bow/ hybrids are a lot safer than kites of a couple of years ago and I have seen first hand how stable they are siitting at the edge of the window.
Recently when I offered to give a guy a launch as I often do, he said "thanks, I got it" and fixed the bar to a ground stake, walked the kite to the edge of the window, put it in the air, and left it there hovering at the edge, a few feet of the ground, while he walked back.
Wipe out on the water and it does the same thing; park at the edge of the window, pretty much de-powerd and waits for you....

im new what is LEI IMO, i currently have a flexi strike 2 but have not got the chance to fly it, i saw this topic and thought it was pretty interesting either way what do those terms mean. thanks.

Leading edge inflatable (water kite)
and In my opinion
they really have nothing to do with eachother :~)

Quote:

Originally posted by buzz OK 5 minutes to pump the kite on the beach, and you need assistance to launch.

I never need anybody to launch me and with the fifth line I never need any body to land me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KAMj-K1W8Q&feature=relat...

Pumping can be a drag though. My kites don't have the one pump feature (thankfully) so even if some thing blows out and I have to self rescue there will always be something to keep me afloat.

My 08 North Rebels:
Good build quality
Heads upwind very well
Very good bar feel (I never need to look at the kite to know where it is)
Very fast turning

A lot of good options out there.

Ok i know everyone on here are foil junkies which is cool, i am too... however you're making some points i don't necessarily agree with. First off, to do with kites popping mid air... You're comparing cheaper made kites with more expensive ones... ocean rodeo, flexifoil, ozone, north and lots of other are pretty much completely bulletproof and will never give in on you in that way... Eclipse and Best and the like do weaker stitching to make cheaper kites.

I, personally, also find the bar pressure of hybrids and steering considerably better than flysurfer and peter lynn (peter lynn are wayyyy too heavy for water use IMO) and flysurfer are STILL too slow... but that's just my flying style i guess i like kites moving fast and smooth like hybrids do...

Launching and landing is very useful to have other people around, not that i can't be done but it's generally much nicer to be flying with others anyway!

Anyway, i'm still a flysurfer rider but i'm just saying, these days, if you're looking at comparing 2008 kites, they are pretty much all VERY VERY good, just try them all and decide for yourself I have an i like hybrids for the high wind and flysurfers for the low-medium wind!

I prefer the zipper! I pretty much have worked myself down to a one kite quiver for 12 to 45 mph winds. yep that what i said one kite quiver. Try that with anything but a twin skin and your SOL...............aj

Just also like to say with one pump you close the tubes to all the struts so air can't get through when it's all pumped up-- the air stays in.

However, if you're looking for a lightwind kite, flysurfer is definitely the way to go

Quote:

Originally posted by Pablo Don't think for a minute that LEI's don't ever pop on the water, and with the one pump system, the whole thing can go flat leaving you stuck without a raft just like a drowned foil.

Quote:

Originally posted by action jackson I prefer the zipper! I pretty much have worked myself down to a one kite quiver for 12 to 45 mph winds. yep that what i said one kite quiver. Try that with anything but a twin skin and your SOL...............aj

Ocean Rodeo claims to . Folks I have talked to say they live up to the spec's
Gotta get one in for the local company

http://www.oceanrodeo.com/kiting/one_specs.php#sizechart

I'm actually a much bigger fan of the rise than the one... no kite is truly a one kite quiver, not without having its disadvantages! It basically means it has mountains of depower so you can take out bigger sizes in lots of wind....

Thanks for the thread gang. I've been watching eBay to see if I can score a complete kit to experiment with once the ice thaws. I'm having so much fun on the skis that I can't imagine finding enough pleasure in static flying to keep me happy in the summer winds. I'm building a set of doom wheels but realistically, there aren't that many places I can fly with enough room to be fun. 20 minutes from the lake where I ski will still be 20 minutes when ice has turned to water....

Sadly a buggy seems impossible for me. Happily there is a weekend course I can take out in Vancouver this spring / summer to help ease me into the water. Not sure if I'll wait on the water kite or not though ; )

As much as I enjoy my PL Venom, if price is a consideration I'd get a Best Waroo or Bularoo. I bought my wife a quiver of inflatos and I've got to say I am very impressed. Her Bularoo 13 is my favorite kite, nearly as stable in the air as an Arc, fast / easy to turn, easy to relaunch and I paid $500 brand new. In fact, my wife's entire quiver cost about the same as one new PL or half a FS.

I also bought a brand new North Rhino 06 20m complete for under $400 (and I see they've dropped the price even more). Two years ago it might have been a great kite, but compared to the new bows it's a bit of a dog. But when the wind dips below 15mph it works alot better than my Venom 19.

Longevity? I usually replace my kites long before they wear out, be it inflatos or foils. No doubt if you drop your kite on some sharp shells or a thorny bush the LEI will suffer the worst of it. But where I've been kiting there's usually lots of open, sandy beach.

You can self launch inflatos. Self launching / landing a bow is super easy, get someone to teach you. Self launching a C-kite is pretty easy (I frequently launch my North 20m) but self landing can be a bit tricky (helps to have a wind shadow).

LEI's that go pop? I've seen it happen to others, but it's never happened to me. It is possible, but less likely if you are a bit careful when you pump up the kite.

If PL's had better bottom end and more competitive pricing I'd be all over it.

or just using a longer set of lines ............aj

Quote:

Originally posted by domdino I'm actually a much bigger fan of the rise than the one... no kite is truly a one kite quiver, not without having its disadvantages! It basically means it has mountains of depower so you can take out bigger sizes in lots of wind....

Quote:

Originally posted by action jackson or just using a longer set of lines ............aj

AJ was out kiteboarding on a set of long lines with a 12M Phantom. I passed my 16M Scorpion to him on standard length lines and he could barely get of the water.

I switched to ARCS after driving one too many times to kiteboard, and having a strut leak... Really great kites, they just take a bit of practice to launch.

Yep was out in nats fart winds and staying upwind. I had 7 days of kiting in a roll with 2 kites 6m phantom and 12m phantom. 5 hrs on the water today and more wind predicted tommarrow. ...............aj:o

so i know, no one here is a huge lei fan for some very obvious reasons i would have to agree with you but a c kite is really not that bad i flew a north rhino and a flexifoil strike 2 older c kites and with fifth lines their pretty nice, you have to pump them up and all that stuff but they feel good. given the chance i would still probably choose a flysurfer or peter lynn. so i will stand neutral they both have pro and cons.

true... I have some LEI's as well. They are good kites, just have on occasion left me standing on dry land thanks to a small leak...

Nothing wrong with LEI's, and the newer ones that are out have excellant performance... but I can use my PL's for a long long time yet it seems after the first season it becomes bladder roulette when time to pump.

Notable that a company called kitefix.com is in business to sell kite repair kits, mostly targeted at LEI's. Good stuff, though.