I'm just wondering if anyone here has done any ice buggying? I think Peter Lynn used to sell a blade set up,... not sure if they still do. Has anyone made a home made blade set up?

This video got me thinking about the frozen "playa" that will be down the road in a couple of months.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okAOPwxyf1o

The intro is a bit long,... but it got me thinking...

haha if only the uk had decent freeze overs like that!! all i would want is a atb without wheels or trucks and the fun is there!

I have used just my buggy on several occasions depending on ice conditions. A lot of sideways movement but still a hoot.

I used an old "Flexible Flyer" wooden sled with metal runners last year. Flew across the lake! Had to sharpen the runners on an angle to get any turning response. Its funny- I was just thinking about that sled on the way home tonight!

Wolfee, you must not have had blades on the buggy if you had that much sideways movement.

If anyone has any experience making their own runners - tips on the amount of optimal rocker and the like that would be great.

I found one old thread along this line...

www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=1870

There is also the polynesian ice canoe idea...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDITqU0y3Ig

The evolution of this idea, from ice buggy to polynesian ice canoe is at...

http://www.instructables.com/id/EPKZ5O80HQEQZJI20F/

here's some http://pic7.piczo.com/Popeyethewelder/?g=37251809&cr=7

Actually this is how I started flying! Last winter I saw ice boats on the lake behind my work and decided I could do that with a kite and my ice-skates during lunch.

So I bought a used kite and did this until the end of winter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBDVpmPw5vI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7XZiWvXWHM


In the spring I purchased a used buggy and a few more kites and learned how fly with a buggy at the beach.

I’ve been shutdown the whole summer due to the crowds but with cooler weather coming I will be back on the beach this fall for more practice.

I plan to purchase ice blades from Libre with the intent of going back onto the lake during the winter. I was thinking of also getting snowmobile skis for times when the ice is covered in snow.

But I want to attach the skis so that the ice blades would fit though a slot in the middle of the skis, and be adjustable from say 0 to a few inches. With the idea of still being able to buggy on the lake, when the conditions are somewhere in between clean ice and a foot of snow.

that is really cool. I fear that someday we could be transferred to the Niagara Falls area and see myself doing something like this to embrace the great white north. The skates were surprisingly able to keep him going in the direction he wanted to go. The buggy with blades idea is intriguing as well. I bet they have less drag than wheels on sand. Any ideas out there on speeds attained on an ice buggy with a kite?

I'd started my wind obsession on skates. I've been over 50mph with speed skates and a 4.8m kitewing,... hopefully faster this winter.

For those days where there is a mix of snow and ice I thought that making some "skunners" (ski/runners) for the buggy might be fun. Some of Popeye's pics have given me some good ideas.

Glad to know that Libre makes some runners, I'll have to check out the price.

Wow, that is really cruising along. Hope your wearing full body gear that ice sure is hard.
I was talking to a guy in Alaska who has cut down a snowmobile and turned it into a ice/snow buggy. I will see if I can get some pictures of him. The only thing I'm sure about is he said where the track was he made a large set of runners with P-TeX on them. Know he said he wished he had left the rear suspension in as it gets pretty bumpy.
I might undertake such an adventure myself.
Cheers

I contacted Joel at Montana Kite Sports, - I knew he had tried out an ice buggy at one point. Keith Kallio had made the runners that he used, here is some of the text that Joel passed on to me.

"Anyway, yes, Keith actually made those ice runners, and we never got around to making another pair, but what works is just a simple wood frame that fits onto the axle and a small four inch runner fitted inside the frame, , use a real short pair of ice boat runners for the rear axles, you don't want them too long, but what matter more is the length and shape of the front runner, we used a short iceboat runner for that too, but it was too long and was not rounded or bevelled enough, it never did turn great, it was real hard to turn actually until you were going 30mph +, But it was FAST, almost uncomfortably so, in fact most kites don't work well with it cause they can't keep up, but I used it one time with the Ozone Razor racing kite, and it was an eye opening experience. If I had more time on ice I'd spend more time trying to build a good ice buggy, I'm thinking one with a flexible plank like an ice boat, it has to be smaller cause you need to turn faster but the flex would really make it stick and go fast."

Keith Kalio also invented an ice ATB . I can't remember what he called it?
Keith was one of my Hero's. Kiting lost a real visionary when he passed !

Wow!

How high was the wind when you were skating?

Quote:

Originally posted by c3h5 Actually this is how I started flying! Last winter I saw ice boats on the lake behind my work and decided I could do that with a kite and my ice-skates during lunch. So I bought a used kite and did this until the end of winter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBDVpmPw5vI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7XZiWvXWHM In the spring I purchased a used buggy and a few more kites and learned how fly with a buggy at the beach. I’ve been shutdown the whole summer due to the crowds but with cooler weather coming I will be back on the beach this fall for more practice. I plan to purchase ice blades from Libre with the intent of going back onto the lake during the winter. I was thinking of also getting snowmobile skis for times when the ice is covered in snow. But I want to attach the skis so that the ice blades would fit though a slot in the middle of the skis, and be adjustable from say 0 to a few inches. With the idea of still being able to buggy on the lake, when the conditions are somewhere in between clean ice and a foot of snow.

I found a link to Peter Lynn gizmo,... the kitesled

www.peterlynnkites.co.nz/vehicles/buggies/kitesled.htm

There is a video from a snowkite festival - the kitesled makes it's appearance about the 1:30m mark of the video,... so be patient.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjzDFQGWOSw

Here is clipped text from the Peter Lynn site about the sled.

Multiple Element Curving Skis
Pilots just like a kite buggy
Extremely fast!
No sideslip
8m turning circle
Description:
You probably think the world already knows every possible way to make such a thing- well think again! This is really out of left field- and it will finally establish kite buggies for snow use- because it works!
The principle driving this development was simple- it’s just the solution that wasn’t.
Very shortly after developing the kite buggy in 1990 we fitted ice runners and snow skis to them. But big enough accessible areas of useable ice is rare- it gets snow on it – and just fitting skis to buggies in place of wheels never worked that well:
Firstly; because each ski didn’t, (couldn’t), lean over to just the precise angle required at every instant to hold their edge against the side load from the kite. Kite skiers are successful (442 km in just 24 hours recently across Greenland!) because they can do this, but they have the benefit of the finest feedback and control mechanism ever developed- excepting for the domestic cat’s management of their "owners".
Secondly, when turning,. the buggy’s ski’s had to sweep out a wider path through the snow, and their edges (being straight) no longer matched the curved edge of snow they were running against- so their drag increased hugely. Every time you turned even a smidgen it was like putting the brakes on. This remained a problem for all except very hard snow conditions even with the short wide V form ski’s with central ice blades that ourselves and others eventually developed for snow buggies. The consequence of these shortcomings has been that snow buggies have not developed any significant market, even while snow kiting began to explode.
The answer(s) we have found are to make the skis bend into curves for steering and to make them with a stepped cross section so as to be able to generate side force in hard and soft snow and without leaning. Getting the ski’s to bend enough to get a usefully tight turning circle was not easy (now down to 8m).
The solution was to make them of multiple longitudinal elements, connected together so that they can slide lengthways relative to each other a bit while remaining constrained vertically and laterally. See photos.
The name we have coined for this system is MECS; Multiple Element Curving Skis.
It’s the breakthrough we’ve sought for so long..
Turning is like being on rails- no sideslip, no slowing down- quite frighteningly fast.
It was also immediately obvious that this idea has applications far beyond kite traction.

Of course, when you see it working it’s such an obvious idea that I can’t help but wonder why it hasn’t already been done- but I’ve thought this about every one of our successful new ideas for 35 years.
As yet there’s no indication from anywhere that MECS aren’t original- but going public will be the best test of this assumption. We’ve now filed a patent application for the key features- so that licensing other applications can hopefully pay for the considerable investment that will be required in the manufacturing process we want to use for the ski elements (sintering) on production KiteSleds. Even if we’re prevented from getting IP on this by some obscure prior invention that I don’t know about yet, at least we should still be able to make and sell MECS equipped snow buggies- which is after all what matters for snow kiting.
In the short term each ski element will be machined from solid UHMW polyethylene bar- which takes longer, but allows for tinkering with shape.

I built an ice buggy for the hell of it last winter. Here is the link:

http://web.mac.com/ryersonclark/iWeb/Site/Blog/Blog.html

Click on "archive" then browse for "Nuska" There are two reports and a video. Over all it worked very well. The seat should be lower and a bit further back, but the tests proved it to be a close design and affordable for anyone.

Hello All,

New to posting here so a big hello and warm greeting.

I have some inquiries that I need to satisfy about ice buggying.

I have come up with an accessory for ice buggying that seems to simpifly and be novel from the links and pictures listed above. This attachment is for an ice ski/blade to attach to a kite buggy. The framing technology is what I find novel and simplifies the ski/ice blade compared to the above links and photos.

I have been toying around with the prototype for a year now and I am wondering if I should submit a patent before disclosing details. I have written the patent but I am wondering if it is worth the headaches, time, and money. To try and internationally patent something is pricey. I have thought about contacting Peter Lynn and Libre to see if they are interested.

What do people think?

Although PopeyetheWelder has his prototypes and there are a couple of others, if I have a novel design can I still patent it?

Do people desire a ski/ice blade attachments for their buggy for use in snow/ice conditions?

What would people be willing to pay for such an accoutrement for their kite buggy? I think I could make a set for about $4-500. Not too bad in comparison to other kite gear.

This attachment has been a blast and the buggy rides like a cadillac on speed. I have someone that can manufacture but I want to protect the novelty just in case I am onto something.

Any input would be a help. If I am onto nothing new, I would like to post pictures and such to see what everyone thinks but will hold that surprise for later.

Thanks for any input.

Keep kiting.
chip.

A few pics of my new Ice blades
I'll be ready for some runs on the ice once it drops below freezing again!

http://www.dmicomputers.com/darren/ice/ice1.JPG
http://www.dmicomputers.com/darren/ice/ice2.JPG
http://www.dmicomputers.com/darren/ice/ice3.JPG
http://www.dmicomputers.com/darren/ice/ice4.JPG

what about putting skis on the bottom that way you could go in the snow, and their would be no drag on the ice. just a thought.

Actually I would be very interested in acquiring skies to use on the snow.
If anyone has some useful info on this topic by all means share!

Since the other ice buggy thread is "frozen"

Thought I'd resurrect this one...

i emailed a fella last week about the PL kite sled. retail was/is $3000. i kindly replied that it was to be a snowboard for me this winter
there was also some pics and info on a ski kit that I got no feedback on.
i'll pass the URL on http://canadianwindrider.com/products/wintercraft/kitesled.h...
Paul