I'm curious as to why 99% of the buggies are 3 wheelers. I've never buggied before so maybe after I've done it this would be a dumb question, but till then can you guys please fill me in. I've seen a couple pictures of 4 wheeled buggies, but never saw anyone on one. The reason I ask is I'm thinking back to my old motorcycle days and the atc (3 wheeler ) vs. the atv ( 4 wheeler ) and we can see which one won that battle.

I think it is because when going (I think it is upwind) there is a huge amount of side pull. A 4 wheel design is a rectangle therefore the NRG transfers to flippage, but a 3 three wheel is a triangle which diverts more of the NRG to forward movement and away from side pull hence the 3 wheel design. (See diagrams) Either that or its just simplier and a 3 wheel steeing set up is a ton simpler. What puzzles me are the, I guess I would call them proa buggies, the ones with 2 wheels for steering that you sit sideways on. I guess they are more like traditional sailing, I mean seating position anyways.

Hope that makes sense, if not picture trying to flip a traingle it would be harder as the edge is not paralell to the force applied, if it still isn't clicking next time you are with a friend with a buggy try to flip it, you will see.

Peas!
And yes I am a science geek

I think a big part of it comes down to durability and ease of building. The trike style buggy works awesome, no one can argue LuS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s speed run or SlaweS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s ability to abuse them. And in both cases it works rather well. More parts usually ends up being more complicated, more expensive and more bits to break.

We could get into performance specs, but most racers use a trike style buggy, so I think we can assume that the 4 wheel design isn't that much better/possibly worst than the trike for performance.

I could see a 4 wheel buggy with full BF's all around for really soft sand though.

http://www.mistralkites.com/image.asp?image=1&id=118

libre 4 wheel buggy



I like my wiskey like I like my women..... 12yrs old and mixed up with coke:evil:

Nice!

two wheel steering is a lot more expensive and complex. A fork is cheap and simple to maintain. Can you imagine how often you would have to do wheel alignments on a buggy.
S

Thats a good Idea. If you don't like the four wheels you can alway put on a pair of front forks And off you go. I still like the brake idea and you have the patent to that style also. If you start to mass produce I want some shares. I'll help with the company. (dakitez and thrasher buggies.com) Hows that!

hmmmm i wonder how to make a brake work.....? i had an emergency on my old one but that required hands and was to stop if the kS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s kick in. feet and hands are occupied maybe like have foot straps on the bug and when you pull feet back a little brakes kick in, or push in but it requires a certain amount of force to do so. :moon:

you could add a push pedal, like a Go-Cart, and run a Drum Brake on the rear tire. Mongoose Mountainboards use to a drum brake system

http://www.a2xtreme.com/mongoose/slalombrake.html

I've had a lot of people ask when they see my buggy 'where are the brakes?' - if you think about it though... if you're not strapped in to your buggy and you had brakes, your buggy would slow but your kite would keep on pulling... probably pulling you with it.

I heard someone mention an idea to have a brake that activated if you got pulled out of your buggy so it doesn't trundle off by itself down the beach if you get pulled out. Realistically though, you'll be going pretty fast if that worries you, and in that case I think you'll have other things to worry about, like how bad it's going to hurt when you and buggy part ways...

I just don't see brakes as being needed, keep kite low, kick out the rear end, you'll stop incredibly fast and you should stay in the buggy if done right. Sliding to bleed off speed is one of the first things you should be practicing. If you can't slide a buggy bad things tend to happen when you get going fast.

Check out the disc brake on the yellow buggy here

Nice rides! I really like the wider axcel look.

popeyethewelder those buggys look nice. they just look tough ready to go anywhere.
I'm curious what everyones thought of putting the brakes on the back tires to help a 4 wheeler slide around faster.

Like the brake on the kids "big wheel".....that would be cool...but you would have to let go of the handles.....

NPWfever:

There's a few problems with your theory.

First: Even in an upwind run, the majority of the kites force is never 90 deg. from your direction of travel. More like between 30 and 75 deg.. Thus putting right smack dab in the middle of your weakest point (60 deg.).

Second: The triangular layout of the three wheeled design has the unfortunate tendancy to transfer any change in trajectory to that weakest spot as well (This is the same reason 3-wheeled ATV's were outlawed in the USA...Too many rollovers.)

Finally: The logic of your arguement against 4 wheels only applies if all four tires are equadistance from the centerline.

Bottom line: The 3 wheeled (in front, 2 in back) design (from a stability standpoint) is actually one the worst configuration. In fact the only two advantages to the current design are

1. simplicity of manufacturing.

2. Abilty to ride over uneven terrain in a rigid frame, but still have all wheels in contact with the ground.

The 4 wheel design offers greater stability, but adds greater bulk, more drag, more cost, difficult to manufacture, the need for compensating suspension or pivot, and more stuff that could go wrong (linkage, cables, etc...)

The Libre 4 wheeler is a great design, but suffers from those described weaknesses.

Hypothetically, a 3 wheeled design with 2 up front and 1 in the back would give the best combination of stability, low drag, and no need for suspension or pivots to keep tires on the ground.

I'll draw something up to show in a little while.

Or better yet, have Carl (popeyethewelder) think up something! Your stuff's amazing!!!

Quote:

Originally posted by dlish89 popeyethewelder those buggys look nice. they just look tough ready to go anywhere.

Yeah I agree, thats why I built the Wildkat buggy, the yellow one is copied from a V-Flex type design, but I love the simplicity of the others and the fact that they are different. These guys live a long way from any beach and so they have adapted their buggies to suit their terrain....personally, the idea of having no brakes on a buggy just adds to the fun, and what a great feeling it is power sliding to a halt or into a turn. 3 wheels, 4 wheels, makes no difference.

I'm pretty sure more than a couple people have tried the 3 wheel, 2 up front design, mixed results, it has been tried with both the front wheels or the rear wheel being the turning wheel.

Long story short, by the time your feet make it to the foot pegs you're sitting pretty far back on the buggy as well as moving the center of pull back a ways. Having only one wheel in the rear made them more prone to tipping as well as not having enough traction on the rear to hold the rear end in place.

That's not to say that someone might still figure out how to do it.

I just got a 4 wheeler, it was powerzone's proto buggy. So we will see how it goes. This is my first buggy so I can't really give an opion on which is better now. But after a few sessions at the sod field with all the other 3 wheelers there should be some reviews coming soon. Stand by !

I can't wait to try that thing.....as soon as the field dyrs up a bit...but there's always the runway...It would provide a good learning experience...quick speed build ups and such

DQ

Most definately I want you to try it and give me your opinion and possible ways to improve it. If the wind picks up today I'm going to try it in a new housing development by my house. They put in all the roads but there are no houses yet, so it should work out pretty good for now.

Man I wish you would have called me today I was home again. had to do some things for my son today. The wind here is blowing about 12mph pretty good but I have not been out yet. Did you make it out? Let me know of any reviews you have for any kites and on that buggy. Thanks.