Hey all, I'm slowly accumulating all the needs and have come to the ice screw part. Is there an optimal length to use? Is bigger better? Is smaller more optimal? The range seems to be 10-22 cm at MEC.

I presume that this is much like the ground stake I use in the fields to which I balloon the kite bag string over when I stick it in so when I'm out flying I don't lose my stake location. Assuming I'd do something similar and the screw sits there do I have to worry about melt in / out? Should I perhaps just pull it when I pick up the handles and pocket it somehow safely?

And does anyone have a general suggestion on what to look for in a binding? I've always had the luxury of ski poles to pop me out of them in the past but I realized today that I won't have the luxury with snow kiting so might want to consider different bindings.

I haven't needed an ice screw yet (I use snow or sand bags) but those I ride with use screws in the 6 - 8 inch range. Most of us use sleds to pull our gear out on the lakes so to prevent losing the screw in the blowing snow, we clip the sleds to the screw itself.

To give more range to the screw you may want to add a 3 - 4 foot line to it with a carbiner on the end. That way you can bend down, pick up your line, hook the handles or bar into the carbiner and set it down (prevents you from having to bend down to do all this).

Bindings are not a problem without poles and my DIN is set high. Simply step on the binding with the tail of your ski and it will pop out and then release the other with your boot. Or secure your kite and bend over and press to release the binding with your hand and it will release.

If you plan on traveling / kiting with the screw, make sure you get a cover for it or get some plastic tubing to make a cover yourself.

We use 16 or 20 cm ice screws from MEC (BD turbo I think) with a carabiner clipped to them. I made a heavy canvas case for them that velcros shut and allows the handle to stick out, then you just clip the whole thing to your harness hook or some ring on your harness so it is ready when you need it. You have to be careful not to get impaled by them. You shouldn't buy cheap ice screws because they will get dull quickly and they are really hard to sharpen unless you have access to a full function machine shop. One other thing you might want to consider is a nice BD avalanche shovel for putting snow on the kite when you are going to launch it. It really helps and it will also serve as a marker for your ice screw if you want to leave it in place. They don't freeze in place.
We are going out this afternoon. I checked and the ice is 6" thick on a little lake near here and the wind is supposed to be up to 20 km/hr. There is some snow on the ice so we can't use skates but will have to use skis. I will likely use the 12 and my wife the 9.5 frenzy today.

Have a good day,
George

I figured that if I only had one ice screw ( now I have 2 ) I may as well buy the longest one at MEC. The price was almost the same. I figured if I'm on crud I'll need the length. If for some reason I couldn't screw deep I can always tie my line so the force is still down low even if I have too much screw left above.

I still haven't found a satisfactory way to carry my second one along as I go ?

Get some heavy canvas and make a sheath for you ice screw. Sew heavy duty velcro on it in the right places before you sew the edges. You make it like a tube with a velcro closure. so you start with a strip of canvas 6" wide and 25" long and draw a line down the center lengthwise and another line 10 " from one end across it. sew a piece of webbing 8" long in the center of one of the halves centered on the cross line. fold the canvas over lengthwise and run a single stitch along the edge. You now have a strip of doubled over canvas 24" long with a piece of webbing sandwiched between the two pieces near one end. fold over that end about 1/2" and sew across. Sew a 3 or 4" long strip of fuzzy side velcro on that side the end closest to the webbing with the end of the velcro overlapping the folded over part. Fold it at the cross line with the velcro to the outside and stitch the edges really heavily using a zigzag overedge stitch and bar stitch it at the top. You will now have a flattened tube with a 5 or 6" tab sticking out the top fold over the top edge by 1/2" stitch across and sew a strip of hook velcro so that it will match up to the fuzzy velcro on the body of the sheath. You then insert the ice screw with the handle sticking out to the side, close the velcro lid and attach it to your harness or wherever with a carabiner. Some people sew or attach a piece of velcro onto their boot and a bigger patch on the sheath so that they can velcro it onto their boot. It is nice to have the extra screw easy to get.
The whole process sounds complicated but really only takes 10 to 15 minutes per sheath, especially once you make one. I made 4 of them pretty quickly.

Have a good day,
George

My big problem is with the caribiner to my harness bit.
I think part of my problem is that my harness has no handle at the back. If I hook to the front or side it is always in the way :?: My midsection isn't the place I want to get jabbed by it either. If you know what I mean :wink2:
Outside of the boot is a good thought ! I think I'ld go a strap over velcro down there though .

If the snow is deep enough, are deadmans any use or is there too much pull from the kite for it to hold?

Quote:

...and the wind is supposed to be up to 20 km/hr........I will likely use the 12 and my wife the 9.5 frenzy today.

Oh my. Here comes the newbie in me......I was out yesterday having good fun with a Rage 4.7 in 12-15km/h. Just scudding about. Thing is, I had taken the Brooza 7.5 out with me and was super reluctant to launch it. And you guys are heading out with 12's and 9.5's? I think I need to find a "true" powerkiter in my area to show me how to handle that much power......I'm the sort that needs to see it before I believe it. I'm certainly intimidated to say the least!

Hey macboy? Do you have kite killers? LOL! I've flown my 8 meter Ace in 20mph wind, really not that bad, just don't launch through the power zone. that hurts alot but once you get it up to the zenith it's just great fun to get lofted. And I use one of those dog leash screws, they are about $5 and work super good even in packed snow.

Good point and yes, I do have killers. I guess I best focus on training the "let go" reaction. I had visions of this beautiful orange beast dragging me nose down through the snow creating a berm like bugs bunny tunneling through the sod. hehehe

20mph......I def need to get some peer pressure on that front if I hope my kiting career to get past the newbie stage....hopefully December is the month for me (although carving season is kicking in so I'm torn between two lovers.....) I'm assuming that the course in Calgary will break the ice as it were for me.

FYI - I've enjoyed catching up on your progress through the sport as I read back through the forum to enlighten myself! You're definitely one of those "Man, if he's doing it I should just cowboy up" guys for me ; )

The cowboy part of me wore out when I was in my twenties. Mac, don't forget how young Master Nick is. I've got socks old than that guy.

When I was his age I could grind the pavement with various body parts on Friday, rub the scab off on Tuesday and be ready to go again on Wednesday morning.

These days I don't bounce, or bounce back quite so fast. It's a #@%$#! getting older.

Isn't there some saying about valor and living to kite another day?

Hey, you started this thread asking about ice screws. You might want to get a little peg the same size as your screw. A screw is too expensive to loose, so screw it in and pull it out right away and replace it with your less expensive, "I don't care if I loose it peg" We have a bunch of aluminum battens with wind socks and telltails that we stick in the ice.

I wonder if I might see said peg next weekend in Calgary? Can't quite visualize it. What keeps it in?

Here are some.

http://www.mec.ca/Search/search.jsp

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Ep...

They are hollow, sharp teeth on the bottom and wide angles on the helix screw pattern .

I understand the ice screw bit - what I don't understand is the "Peg" GlideGuy is referring to. How on earth it will stay in place if you bore a hole with the screw, pull the screw and replace it with a peg instead. I wonder if it's barbed or something?

quote:
"..and the wind is supposed to be up to 20 km/hr........I will likely use the 12 and my wife the 9.5 frenzy today."
"Oh my. Here comes the newbie in me......I was out yesterday having good fun with a Rage 4.7 in 12-15km/h. Just scudding about. Thing is, I had taken the Brooza 7.5 out with me and was super reluctant to launch it. And you guys are heading out with 12's and 9.5's? I think I need to find a "true" powerkiter in my area to show me how to handle that much power......I'm the sort that needs to see it before I believe it. I'm certainly intimidated to say the least! "

reply:
Macboy: There is a big difference between static flying a non depower kite and flying a Frenzy (or any depower kite) on skis. Contact Mike Dowie (he is the western Canada Flysurfer distributor) in Edmonton for a local person that is very good at snow and water kiting. I am sure he puts on demos all the time. Check the Kiteboarding Canada website.

It takes some time and practice before you can be confident using larger kites. It is good to feel intimidated because you need to respect the power.
There is supposed to be 10-15 km/hr winds today so I think ice fishing might be the thing to do. But the kites are in the car just in case.

Have a good day,
George

Macboy,

http://www.kiteboarding.ca

I checked to make sure it is still active.
Mike is an intersting guy. Really enjoys his kiting. Flys huge kites.

Have a good day,
George

Thanks George, Wolfee went out there last year for the demo days - not sure if he ran into Mike or not. I've been keeping my eyes on that site as well as edmontonkiteboarding.com but they seem to be stagnant - not like this fabulous forum!

Any kite that is yanking you around when you fly it static will mellow out if your on skis or wheels for a couple reasons:

1) If you can slide or roll easily you can turn that downwind pull into forward motion. If you head downwind a bit the apparent wind your kite sees will drop and you will lose power.

2) The kite is less affected by gusts if you are working it through the sky so that it's speed is higher than the true wind speed. Basically the same as when in an airplane a momentary updraft is felt less if you are flying fast than if you are flying slow.

Also, depower foil kites are usually 40-50% larger than typical fixed bridal kites for similar wind conditions.

Back on topic: My ice screws are 5" long. I keep a biner on them to clip my bar or handles into, along with a flag or streamer so they don't get lost under drifting snow. I like a cheap and rugged sheath from PVC plumbing pipe and bungie cord like in the attached pic. Make it in 5-10 minutes.

krumly

Thanks for that picture Krumly - I'm going to make one like that for my ice screw.

Haven't had a chance to use it yet since the ice is too thin still...

DaVinch -

Bring your screw to the hardware store and check the fit in the PVC before you buy it. Some of my screws needed 3/4" IPS 'cuz 1/2" IPS was too snug.

krumly