Are kite killers really safer? In BC, there are those who say "No,they are dangerous." Any opinions? Please provide reasons for your answer.
S

I say safer. Not only for you , but everyone that is in the area if you let go. I don't really see how they could be unsafe. They can get in the way at times, but other than that they're a good safety device.

Who said they are unsafe? That's probably one of the dumbest things I've heard.

every kite needs a safety system... even if it is "lame" it is still a safety and all kites should have one.

if kite killers is all there is... then still use it.

the only unsafe thing about kite killers is not using them and risking the consequences.

For static, flying much safer.
If you are mobile It can mean you are dragging a set of lines until you stop. Anyone between you and your kite is going to have your lines dragged across them.
Kite killers like Flexifoil's would be damned hard to get out of if the kite collapse. I would not want to be trying to get out of Flexifoil killers while being dragged.
Is not rule #1 Never attach yourself to the kite without a release.
S

So you'd rather drop the kite and have it float away aimlessly towards people, rather than have it collapsed and coming down onto the ground and you continue moving for several meters?

I remember reading that there were some people who thought killers were unsafe and shouldn't be used. Always wondered why?? The only reason I can think of would be if you had to get rid of the kite completely...but what situation would that be in on land?? Maybe another reason would be that it gives you a false sense of security in riding in winds that you really shouldn't be out in??

Who knows...not I...I use killers each and every time.

Personally, I only use them in sketchy situations or when there are crowds about or if I am going to be jumping on the board or skis and risk hitting the ground in an uncontrolled manner that could cause me to drop the kite.

For static flying, I don't use them. 90% of the time I'm riding I don't use them either as the strop is hooked in to the harness rendering the killers unable to be deployed.

The reason why "some" say they are "unsafe" is because if you are riding in a buggy and the killers are long then they can wrap on your axel and that would be bad.

I use a radsail cross over bar with a safety system, (1 kite killer attatched to the break lines)
on my standard handles I don't have any probebly because I will use them in lower winds to turn the kite faster, if theres low winds theres less risk hence no need...

although having said that if your flyig in blusty conditions I'd strongly recomend them, its then when your most likely to be caught out.

there also handy to attach to the ground stakes.

I have ozone kite killers which have an elasticated lead, this should cut down the risk when buggying.


stu

I don't use them. Mostly because of three things. 1) Never fly your kite near other people especially those downwind of you. 2)I fly in the ocean and want to get away from all the lines and my kite when I crash in the surf. 3)fixed bridle open cell foils will snag and stop when they touch just about anything. Plus getting hit by a loose open cell foil is like getting wrapped up by a bed sheet blowing down the beach.

Here's a pic of what a taunt line could do to you i.e. a kite stuck on kite killers getting pulled by a wave.

Scott

About the only possible reason for thinking KK are unsafe is if, as B-Roc says, you wear them in the buggy and let them get caught under a wheel. I would suggest however that if that is the case, they are not being worn properly. If the leashes are attached out in front of the brake lines on the handle leaders, they do not hang down so much as to be a risk, unless you are in just as much danger of getting a line or two under the wheel, which is another matter altogether.

Yes they can be a nusance, but they are more of nusance in higher winds when you would want them the most. (they might flop around and wrap a line when you are putting them on, etc.) In lighter winds, they are arguabley not needed as much, but are really less of a bother, so I think it all works out.

The Flexis are just as easy/ difficult to get out of as the HQ or the Ozones that I see, but I would argue that if you have put yourself in that kind of position (gotten hooked to a moving object like car or plane) then you have already thrown the wheels of Darwinism into motion...

I mainly use them in high winds - tried it without when I first started and saw that if you lose your grip on one handle it takes off like a rocket and becomes a lethal weapon if you aren't the only person around. I have never had a situation on land or snow where I wanted to completely get of the kite - it can travel a long way without my big ass on the end of the lines.

The only manufacturer I have seen so far that has warned you not to use kite killers is Ted Dougherty - Pro-Foil is not designed for use with them (in bold print on the operating instructions sheet).

Bill

Saftey first! I always wear them. Yes they are apain in the butt most of the time but I would rather deal with that Before hurting someone or risk losing my kite. It is no fun trying to chase a knotted ball of kite a quater mile!

KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s are a must if there's anyone around, The chances of having them drag over someone after you've dumped the kite is minimal and the kite won't be powered up at the time so damage would be minimal. The chances of the kite flying away and hitting someone in a crowded park like say Garry Point is pretty high, the resulting accident could not only cause injury to spectators but possibly lead towards a kiting ban at the park. I rode with KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s all the way up to the point where I started flying with a fully captive system.

If you're out in no mans land on the sand flats then well, maybe they're not really needed, no one around to get in the way, some bush will eventually stop the kite.


I'd say the only real reason for not using KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s is if you're flying a totally captive system with a QR. As stated above, in this case the KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s won't be able to drop the kite seeing as it's stuck attached to the strop until you hit the safety.

Hey Sailors,
Here's my take on KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s...
I think they stink!

The kite killer "teaches" some very wrong lessons.
They teach that "letting go" is the first thing to do in an emergency.
WRONG!

And you haven't really "let-go" anyway.
You've only let go of the control.
You're still attached to the kite.

To disengage from the kite, one must do 3 things:
Let go of the handles and control,
Reach up and release one velcro strap,
Reach up and release the other velcro strap.

Yah. Right.

I have long taught that the 3 steps of control should be:
1. Full-Reverse on the handles - This stalls the kite.
2. Holding the bottoms of the handles in one hand, reach up with your other hand and pull the brake lines - This inverts and reverses the kite (up-side-down & backwards). Now it is a piece of falling cloth.
3. Letting go of the handles now disconnects the flyer from the kite completely and releases a harmless piece of fabric, not a powered-up kite.

All kite killers do is prevent that very practical control from working, and prevent the flyer from developing the very skills needed.

Then there are the assumptions being made...
Are we talking about a complete idiot with way too much kite in way too much wind? Who thinks kite killers are magic?

Knowing the methods of control require some practice, not gimmicks.
The Science of Marketing loves gimmicks.
Most retailers love gimmicks too.
Anything that makes it easier to sell more product and make more money.

Education takes time and energy and doesn't pay - It costs -
So most retailers don't bother to do much.
Too many newcomers to our sport really want to buy the easy way in.
Selling them gimmicks will continue to be an easier way to make the sale.

If you don't know how to control your kite - Do you really believe kite killers will make you the man?

I teach skills.
I don't like gimmicks.


Safen Up! Buggy On!

"Often wrong... Never in doubt"

the coreylama

It seems that many of the people that hate kitekillers are generally older and have been in the sport long before KK were introduced. They don't see them as something for safety, rather a consumer 'gimmicS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-. It's far from a gimmick, and at 10-15$ they aren't profiting that much anyways. I know some people that knew about them, but only thought they were for people starting out. He learned that many people do infact use them. He's been kiting for a while. And as far as I know, he may have changed his view on them.

I learned 100% on kitekillers. I believe my kiting skills both static and moving are pretty good. Kitekillers are my last resort. I can only see how using KK helped me improve - not hindering me in any way.

Kitekillers don't teach any wrong lessons. They only reassure you that when you must let go, you will not loose the kite nor will it be thrown upon others. If you are in an area where having kitekillers is more dangerous, I can't see why letting a kite completely go could be any safer.

Quote:

I have long taught that the 3 steps of control should be: 1. Full-Reverse on the handles - This stalls the kite. 2. Holding the bottoms of the handles in one hand, reach up with your other hand and pull the brake lines - This inverts and reverses the kite (up-side-down & backwards). Now it is a piece of falling cloth. 3. Letting go of the handles now disconnects the flyer from the kite completely and releases a harmless piece of fabric, not a powered-up kite.

Number one and two you can still do perfectly fine –with kitekillers. #3 I would rather have the kite float down while attached to the kitekiller instead of it going who knows where downwind. If it is really that important, it is not hard to take them off your wrist in any real emergency. And, as far as I know, Ozone KK are very easiy with a D ring you pull and the entire KK comes offvery easily.

When a new flyer uses kitekillers, he gets reassured that he is allowed to let go of the kite as a last resort if he needs to. He doesn't have to worry about potentially losing several hundred dollars worth of gear because a gust may have hit and pulled the handles from his hand. I do not think someone will take it out in stronger winds just because they have kite killers. I think they would be just as likely to take it out in stupid winds without them, and I'm pretty positive about this because I know people who have done that without kite killers. What I also know is that if they had kite killers it would be much safer for everyone when he goes and flies in those stupid winds.

If you want to push your limits, kite killers help you do that more safely.

Kitekillers are also about convenience. If you don't want your kite to tangle and get caught up in a bush or something, use your KK when kiting and the kite is safe.

Again, skill doesn't overcome kitekillers. Kitekillers and skill go hand in hand.

i dont think it's a gimmick. where i fly if loose my kite then it's basicaly had it, so i see the killers as more of a kite saving device.

if im hooked in on the bar and i bail/fall off the board and land on my face then i just pull the quick release and let go of the bar then the killer 'kills' the kite and it floats gently to the floor.

i would like to know what is unsafe and gimmicky about that, as it has saved me from getting dragged across the whole field on my back many times.

Whats gimmicky is that you paid a few $$ for something that helps you!

it came free with the bar so it seems ozone are just giving gimmicks away:D

Those B@$%@RD$ !!!!!

Well I am definatly an old guy and I don't use kite killers mainly because I didn't know about them. I have only been power kiting for about three years and have never seen them. I always wear gloves and times that I have needed to get a kite down I have used Corey methods.

I must say though I never really fly big kites in high winds and really only get to buggy at NABX. I had an OBE at the pre event last year and got the kite on the ground and held onto it using those techniques.

If I am standing and flying I am flying a rev so I don't think I would need them then but when I vacation in FL the beach is narrow and you have a lot of people walking around which can be a challange so you need to drop the kite alot if they start to walk under your lines. It is also when I practice prior to NABX and having KK might be the resonsible thing to do because if the kite got away a random person might try and grab the lines or the kite could blow into the protected dunes.

So having said all of that if I am going to make a set of KK I was thinking of sewing a small D ring on the wrist band of my gloves and hooking the kk to that with a quick release buckel like you might see on ski gloves. Does anyone see a problem with that.

Thank
George

we train new riders with kite killers, they are very useful!

Kite Killers: Good

Kitekillers like depower bars have created false senses of security. But if you want to ride with them great and if you don't great. Just make sure you adhere to the following kiteflying rule whether you use them or not.
1)don't fly with people or obstacles within a resaonable distance downwind of you.

Scott

Folks around here are often seen out in public without K.K.'s on. :wow:
It only feels odd the 1st time :wink2: Then it becomes liberating :smug:
We may have to set a policy of using them soon and I think a few folks will feel shackled ! :evil:
I can wear them, if I have to

just out of curiosity, do buggy racers wear em?

Interesting read. I caught myself looking down at my two index fingers as I read that, looking at the scars I got in my teens from some fast moving spectra I was holding onto when a gust yanked the sport kite. When I flagged out on the lake a few weeks ago without a way to stake the kite down so I could go sort it out, I started yarding in the lines by hand. A gust grabbed the bowtie and I let go fearing a matched set of scars.

I'm all for killers. Even gloves can get a line wrapped around them and I'm not going to be the one who sees if they have sufficient shear strength to prevent a line from decapitating one of my fingers.

Quote:

Originally posted by macboy I caught myself looking down at my two index fingers as I read that, looking at the scars I got in my teens from some fast moving spectra I was holding onto when a gust yanked the sport kite.

Quoted for emphasis!

I would agree with Corey. I do not like the KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s. I'm an old power kiter also. When I started flying I had to teach my self control and in the process the muscles in my forearms became stronger from applying the brakes (this helps with control). If you have to resort to KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s you are probably over powered anyway. The flyers who are using the KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s may not have ever dumped the kite and have the wind pick up... since you are still attached to the kite by both wrists the kite could still pull you downwind... and while this is going on you have no control.

I have used this method of de-power. After applying full brakes reach out, one arms length with one hand (do not grab the lines) and push the bottom lines (brake lines) to the side.

A couple things I also wanna mention

If you've tried kite killers and they weren't using a bungee cord, I can see why you many also think they stink. There will be a huge jerk at first and they will have to be quite long in the first place. A bungee remedies both of these problems.

Flying overpowered... some of us enjoy being overpowered. Kite killers help us do it in a safe way. I know that many people would still go out in these winds. Better doing it with a safer method. What about those nice days that are just gusty and sometimes rip the kite our of your hand?

Many people don't get the privilege of sailing along wide open lake flats or ocean coasts. Many people fly inland. With gusty conditions, houses, trees, people, fences. I would MUCH rather the kite be attached to me with KK than it to fly into one of these obstacles. Or even beaches close to roads, power lines etc, dunes (as mentioned) etc. You can still use any skill that you want. And you should use these skills. But use the KK as a back-up.

Like Ted mentioned self control is the best safety out there. If the wind is gusty don't fly, if you feel you might be overpowered don't fly a kite then absolutely don't fly with obstacles downwind of you. I've sat out so many kite flying session because of poor conditions.
Here is the picture again of a finger sliced to the bone which had to have micro surgery to repair due to a taunt line slicing across it i.e. a line drawn taunt due to a old school kitekiller from back in 1999.
Taunt lines are dangerous, slack lines are not dangerous. Even if the kite is happily drifting downwind with noone attached to it the lines are slack. All the times I've dropped a kite the kite has stopped because the canopy snagged on something within a couple seconds. Or the canopy just balls up and rolls happily down the beach till it hits a plant or post or something which stops it. All the while the lines are slack and not dangerous. Again taunt lines are dangerous slack lines are not.
However, if you drop a kite on kite killers the lines are now taunt plus you have not control over the kite. It can flop and flip all over the place but while it does this the lines are taunt. If someone is between you and the kite and they get hit it will be by taunt lines which are dangerous. If the kite was just dropped and it hits someone the lines are slack and won't slice. It might hurt but the lines won't cut easily.

Finally, whatever method you choose please don't fly with obstacles downwind of you. That way you won't ever have a problem. Good luck.
I'm otta this discussion-which is a good one for sure Good topic.
Scott