I recently got a Prism Snapshot 1.9 two line foil. Its a fun little kite, but I am still not sure if it is the kite that I want. I was thinking it would be good to have a training type kite that I can use to learn the basics but also use later as a smaller kite. So I guess what I am asking is would it be more worth my money to return it and got a larger kite (like a 3m) that has handles or a bar (this kite has hand loops)? Any thoughts or recommendations? Thanks in advance

I would return it. Your thought is correct about having a smaller kite for the future, but I belive the snap shot is not quad line capable. Take it back and buy a 3m pansh for $100. I have the prism stylus p3 it came dual line, but you could convert it to quad line. P3 cost $125 + quad lines and handles over $200 invested and its still junk ! For $200 you could get a Pansh ace 8m ready to fly

Which pansh would your recommend?

FOR SURE !!!!!

Return it and pick up a kite with brakes. The 4 lines are a HUGE value. When learning you can realunch after a crash using the brakes. Once you need the kite for high wind the brakes are important for safety + control. At 3m you will have a kite with lots of pull to entertain + it will at least fly in most winds. Many folks like smaller but I find that at 3m the way the kite flies is like that of larger ones. Smaller and they get more "mad bee" like.

Pansh legend

Like dlish said legend, but if you have other flyers in your area that can help you fly the Ace may be a bit more suited.
Depends:
Legend=low lift kite=buggy
Ace=high lift kite=board

I don't know any others around here, but I see people on the beach all the time do I don't think it would be too hard to meet people. I assume you use the ace for landboards not surfboards? I'll probably eventually use it for a buggy though, or at least thats what I'm thinking right now. I don't know what will actually happen...

If you're going to stick with Pansh as a first kite (not a bad idea at all), I'd suggest the Blaze. A lower AR than the Ace, but still a fun kite to fly. Give Kullas a shout - he's got my old 3m Blaze as his first kite.

Its been a little while since I've had any wind to comment on, BUT for the Kite & amount of pull & winds, Im finding that the ProFoil 3.5m² seems to be the 1st Kite I reach for most of the time now, for that middle of the wind range, but not enough for the ProFoil 1.5m² or to much for the 9.0m² Buster...

Pdx, you're right - the ProFoil 3.5 is a nice kite. Wish Ted would go for another run - I could use both the 3.5 and the 4.5!

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Originally posted by mroctopus I assume you use the ace for landboards not surfboards? I'll probably eventually use it for a buggy though, or at least thats what I'm thinking right now. I don't know what will actually happen...

You are right about some kites for water and others for land. Even folks that ride on the water usually put in time on a 3m " trainer " . Usually an open cell that won't relaunch off water.

Once you have flown a bit and know what direction you want to go you can buy a bigger kite to suits that need. Ask the locals what works best for your area. If lessons are available they can be some of the best money you will ever spend !

Inflatables for water ( but good on land )
Closed cell foils / twinskins ( work on both )
Open cell foil. ( Mostly for land.) Can be fixed bridle or trim-able.

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Originally posted by snowbird Inflatables for water ( but good on land )

But keep in mind they will pop if you hit the ground a little to hard.

Is there a reason why Pansh kites are so cheap? Most other kite of the same size are much more expensive. I was just talking to the owner of the kite shop that I am going to return the snapshot to and he sounded very skeptical of them. Whats the deal?

mroctopus
Where are you located ? There might be someone near you that would be willing to let you give one a try. If you are near me I have a few you can try

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Originally posted by mroctopus Is there a reason why Pansh kites are so cheap? Most other kite of the same size are much more expensive. I was just talking to the owner of the kite shop that I am going to return the snapshot to and he sounded very skeptical of them. Whats the deal?

They are produced in china with cheap labor, but they truely turn out to be worth their cost.

However, most people end up replacing the lines and handles, which boosts the costs.

Most retailers are skeptical, they don't want to believe kites are going for that cheap.

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Originally posted by dlish89 mroctopus Where are you located ? There might be someone near you that would be willing to let you give one a try. If you are near me I have a few you can try

I live in Santa Cruz, CA for the next two weeks then San Francisco. I'd love to try out your or someone else's Pansh if they are in the area.

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Originally posted by barnes However, most people end up replacing the lines and handles, which boosts the costs.

Yeah, it seemed that when he saw what the lines were made of (he looked at the website while I was on the phone) it really made him weary. Is that something that would need to be done immediately?

If you are moving to San Fran and have an eye to the water possibly the best choice for you is to pick up a Beamer TSR. It comes on a bar and is geared toward being a water trainer while being a great, friendly all rounder at the same time. The other Beamer comes on handles but can go on a bar The TSR is bar only. The price point is close but you will get a FAR BETTER beginer package from H.Q. . It comes complete with Safety leash., nice back pac, a DVD , ground stake, instructions and top quality materials. Right down to the lines.
Pansh makes an O.K. kite but lacks instruction + quality line / handle sets ( athough they have improved I think ) in a simple stuff sac. . I'm not saying Pansh is so bad but that H.Q. puts together a real top quality beginer kit straight out of the quality bag right down to the stake with a DVD on how it all works !!! If you can get and HQ from your dealer ( and most can ) you should look in to it !

The Pansh lines are alot better now than previous sets. They are definately useable. As a beginner you would never know the difference unless you saw a set of $100 ozone lines.

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Originally posted by dlish89 The Pansh lines are alot better now than previous sets. They are definately useable. As a beginner you would never know the difference unless you saw a set of $100 ozone lines.

My friends brand new Ace lines got stretched out real nice after the first flight.

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My friends brand new Ace lines got stretched out real nice after the first flight.

It is the stretching + lack of instructions that can be a bit frustrating to a new flyer.

You get a big saving with Pansh but IMHO as an affordable beginer package H.Q. does really mean High Quality. H.Q. means low Agro and well worth the few extra bucks. A TRS is likely to re-sell pretty easy if you want to onload it as well. Particularily in San Fran.

I have both kites. The refinement level of the HQ kites is through the roof in quality workmanship and ease of flying. A beamer is such a joy to fly because it does what you tell it to without many surprises. After you cut your teeth on it, you can expand your quiver with a Pansh or two and by then you will be able to handle the extra fussiness of owning a Pansh. I love my two Pansh kites but really appreciate the beamer when I get it out. I replaced the lines that came with my Blaze back in May or June. I still have never flown a kite with them or the handles that came with it. I use the lines and handles that came with my new ACE 6. The handles are very usable if not more than medium quality. The lines are usable but seem rough and sticky compared to quality lines. The Crossfire is all the same quality, but it is too high strung to learn to fly with. It was my third kite and probably the most exhilarating kite I have. But it would turn you off the sport if it was your first kite. Especially the smaller sizes. They are very finicky in less than perfect wind.

I too can attest that the Beamer TSR is a nice little 1st kite. I have the 3.6, and it's been very easy for me to get the hang of. Just the right amount of power for someone learning the ropes, and the control bar setup is a breeze to operate. Good quality construction too!

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Originally posted by barnes Quote: Originally posted by mroctopus Is there a reason why Pansh kites are so cheap? Most other kite of the same size are much more expensive. I was just talking to the owner of the kite shop that I am going to return the snapshot to and he sounded very skeptical of them. Whats the deal? They are produced in china with cheap labor, but they truely turn out to be worth their cost. However, most people end up replacing the lines and handles, which boosts the costs. Most retailers are skeptical, they don't want to believe kites are going for that cheap.

All kite Brands are produced in China or Vietnam and some of the brands come out of the same factory.

Pansh has just eliminated the cost of the dealer network by selling direct. Every time a product passes through a set of hands, the price goes up by 40 - 100 %, but the distributor and dealer each add a layer of customer support and resources (or should).

And sometimes that support is selling a customer new lines and handles for their Pansh and telling them how to use them since the originlas came with few or no instructions.

In a global economy I can't get mad at Pansh for selling direct. If I did, it would do no good. In fact, thanks to them I have a lot of new customers.

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Originally posted by acampbell Quote: Originally posted by barnes Quote: Originally posted by mroctopus Is there a reason why Pansh kites are so cheap? Most other kite of the same size are much more expensive. I was just talking to the owner of the kite shop that I am going to return the snapshot to and he sounded very skeptical of them. Whats the deal? They are produced in china with cheap labor, but they truely turn out to be worth their cost. However, most people end up replacing the lines and handles, which boosts the costs. Most retailers are skeptical, they don't want to believe kites are going for that cheap. All kite Brands are produced in China or Vietnam and some of the brands come out of the same factory. Pansh has just eliminated the cost of the dealer network by selling direct. Every time a product passes through a set of hands, the price goes up by 40 - 100 %, but the distributor and dealer each add a layer of customer support and resources (or should). And sometimes that support is selling a customer new lines and handles for their Pansh and telling them how to use them since the originlas came with few or no instructions. In a global economy I can't get mad at Pansh for selling direct. If I did, it would do no good. In fact, thanks to them I have a lot of new customers.

Ah, that makes plenty of sense now..thanks!

But in all honesty, there is obviously a gap in quality between my Legend and a Beamer, not to mention the difference in flying.

Yup, that's what you get with a knock-off.

I don't pretend to be any sort of expert on this, but I do agree about the difference in quality. I started with a 3m Blaze, and went to a 4m Beamer as fast as I could. For a beginner, the Pansh range does have the advantage of being low in price - if you decide you don't like the sport, you haven't spend a lot. the downside is it can be very frustrating to unpack a Pansh and have no idea what goes where, or how to adjust if things don't work out. Pansh has improved their quality (and yes, I still fly the Ace - it's a fun kite) but if I had to do it all over again, I'd start with a Beamer or it's equivalent.

I am one of those that bought a set of handles, lines and kite killers for my blaze from Angus. Thank goodness for a reputable dealer with quality products. At least I had learned enough about kiting to not need to ask many questions about its setup. I learned all that from having a Beamer as a first kite that came with instructions. To top it all off, Angus was on the beach flying with me 2 hours after I bought the kite from him. Questions galore that day, and he had the answers as well. Pansh has its place in the market but it isn't for the beginner. You will also need a dealer even if not local to support you with knowledge and quality products.

Thanks for all the information everyone! I just had one final question. I was looking at the Beamer TSR and the Beamer 3 and noticed that the TSR came with a bar while the Beamer 3 came with handles. Is there any benefit of having one or the other? Can the TSR be used with handles? Thanks.

As I mentioned above. From what I understand you can put a Beamer on a bar even though it comes with handles. The TSR is bar only.

I think you may be asking why one over the other. The TSR comes on a bar because it is prmarily a trainer for kiteboarders. The Other on handles because they are prefered by buggy folks. Both have good power and performance.

Handles offer a bit more individual brake control. + I think is the less expensive option.

Sure the TSR can fly on handles (and the Beamer III can fly on a bar)- it's just a question of what they were originally set up for and tuned for.

The Handles give you individual/ independent control of each brake. This is especially handy in light winds where the finesse you can add really pays off. Also easier to back down a kite for landing downwind. The downside is that you allways literally have your hands full.

Flying on a bar frees up a hand from time to time. Those headed for land boards often prefer the bar since they can free a hand for board grabs or other tricks. The bar does provide some brake input automatically for turns, but never both at once or some other combination. Kites on a bar are often used as trainers by Kiteboarding instructors, since the bar is more similar to a kitesurf control bar (which is a de-power bar on the bigger kiteboarding kites).

Important point: do not confuse a regular control bar with a de-power bar, the former just looks similar to the latter but does not provide the variable power of a de-power rig.