Just got off the phone with pkf member dustin.burch. He bought my 6m Ace Saturday morning. He went to see his girlfriend in Athens GA and they went to a park to fly his new kite. Against all my warnings and advice, after 3-4 hours he got over-confident and started pulling the kite back and forth across the zenith. It picked him up and he incorrectly sent the kite forward. This started pulling him downwind while it was lifting him off the ground. His friend said he got about 10' off the ground and the kite hit the ground before he did. Dustin received a compound fracture of one of his shins. When I called just to see how his first flight was, he tells me all this. I'm thinking at first it is a joke in bad taste. But he is serious. Just a reminder about the potential power of a kite this size. Let's all wish him a quick and full recovery.

I wish him fast recovery and I hope he learned his lesson. I learned the hard way myself, got lofted with 4 m ace myself at 20 knots gusting 40. Didn't break anything, but my back was in pain for a month. I try to stay away from lifty fixed bridle kites now, they scare the crap out of me, especially Baluks 10 m Blade III I currently have.

yea what a bummer, i guess you just have to have mad respect for the wind and the kites we fly. either way i wish him a speedy recovery and hopefully he is flying soon.

Yeah too bad, i also learned the hard way
got lifted and dragged into a parked car and broke my ankle, oops
I'm with Bloah, fixed bridle kites are scary!

Ooooooh. I wouldn't wish anyone to learn a lesson with such severe punishment. I wish him a speedy recovery.

Bobby, what's the Ace 6m like measured against the Blade 6.5? How close? I always thought the Ace looked like a Blade Wannabe.

Hey Sailors,
What's this?
Fixed bridle kites are the culprit?
Get real.
Re-read the original post - "Against all my warnings and advise..."

I don't think the kite was at fault.
Oh... I forgot... No-one has ever been hurt flying with a de-power kite.
Let's grow up and stop blaming the gear for our bad decisions.


Safen Up! Buggy On!

"Often wrong... Never in doubt"

the coreylama

Quote:

Originally posted by coreykite Hey Sailors, Let's grow up and stop blaming the gear for our bad decisions. the coreylama

That says it !!!

Fortunately for me, I was on the water when I learned my BIG LESSON and only dislocated a rib. That WAS on a Depower kite.


[Edited on 3-3-2008 by snowbird]

Hey Bob, any idea what the wind conditions were like? Was this an experienced flyer?

Quote:

Originally posted by BeamerBob after 3-4 hours he got over-confident

This is a pretty long session of static flying. It's easier to get careless when fatigue sets in and I would think that after 3 hours on a 6m Ace that one would be pretty exhausted.

Best of luck to Dustin on a speedy recovery.

The kites are shaped the same but then things get different. The Ace is obviously lifty but not as much as the Blade. The AR is 5.0 on the Blade and 4.53 on the Ace. The problem I had with the 6m Ace is that it wouldn't redirect at 2:00 or 10:00 well. The turn speed was just too slow and it wants to lose the wind if you are too close to the edge of the window. So you end up turning further down in the power zone. It has lots of pull and could make a decent buggy engine, but it doesn't have the finesse of the Blade particularly at the edge of the window in the low to mid- lift setting. So you find yourself like Dustin, zig zagging up around the zenith to see if you will "get lucky" with the right draft. He apparently didn't know what to do when he went up. The Ace loses its wind as you approach the edge of the window. With the Blade you can fly right across the zenith and then turn INTO the wind at 10/2 to redirect and jump. The ace (for me) would lose it''s wind at 10/2 and drift into the power zone. The magical thing about the Blade to me is how it has a higher AR than similar kites but isn't as likely to fold up at the edge of the window. It seems to just hold together while under more duress than other kites can handle.
I don't feel responsible after all the warnings I gave about wind speeds and holding the kite above your head, but if it can happen to him, any of us is only one bad redirect away from screws and plates or worse. You guys be careful out there.

He was only an hour away from me and I was having 9-12 on average. Gusts would pick up from there though. His eyes were wide when I was explaining the dangers of the kite and even discouraged him from flying it in front of my house due to the mailboxes, driveways and such for him to run into. I thought he was taking it back to Tybee Island with some smooth winds and soft sand but he went on to Athens. Grassy field I imagine. He said he had experience with smaller foils. Too big a jump (honest, no pun intended) from "smaller" foils to 6m lifter I guess. A smaller transition between his experience and this kite would've possibly taught him the lesson without being so severe.

Quote:

Originally posted by kiteNH Hey Bob, any idea what the wind conditions were like? Was this an experienced flyer? Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob after 3-4 hours he got over-confident This is a pretty long session of static flying. It's easier to get careless when fatigue sets in and I would think that after 3 hours on a 6m Ace that one would be pretty exhausted. Best of luck to Dustin on a speedy recovery.

I never said fixed bridle kites are the culprit! I just think they're scarier!! holding on for dear life rather than having 3 safety systems makes my sissy like ways feel more secure

I flew fixed bridles for 3 years and loved them, i'm certainly not dissing them

I agree with Corey. I think Dustin made a bad choice of kite for the wind he was in. Sounds like lack of experiance and being over confident is what got him in trouble. Too bad he did not have an experienced person there with him to advice him to fly something smaller. Just my two cents.

Susan (npw goddess)

Quote:

Originally posted by coreykite Hey Sailors, What's this? Fixed bridle kites are the culprit? Get real. Re-read the original post - "Against all my warnings and advise..." I don't think the kite was at fault. Oh... I forgot... No-one has ever been hurt flying with a de-power kite. Let's grow up and stop blaming the gear for our bad decisions. Safen Up! Buggy On! "Often wrong... Never in doubt" the coreylama

oh man......

I've been lofted with fixed bridle kites on many occassions. When they are at zenith you can't do anything if the gusts hit, with depower you could let go of a bar when gusts hits. My 8 meter ace lofted me several times in low winds, the kite was just passing the zenith, boom, gust hit and I am 10 ft in the air. Not cool. Nothing like with my pulse. Bottom line I would stay away from lifty large fixed briddle in high wind or gusty conditions. I do love fixed bridles, I fly legend 3 meter in those conditions and no problem.

This was definitely a sad read but one of the risks of flying. I have had my share of superman incidents when I miss judged the wind and ended landing on my face. Thank goodness I typically fly in sand which makes the landing a little softer. If I am ever in doubt about size I will start off small and work up. It is quite a bit easier on the body. Helmets are always a good option in higher winds, but you still need good judgment/common sense.

I agree with those above, Kitemaker4 and Corey, COMMON SENCE, lack of experience, no safety system ( I would think kite killers would be a must for inexperienced flight) all ingredients for disaster. Again someone who didn't respect the wind, the power of traction kites or the advice of a more experienced flier.
Sorry to hear it, but it was only a matter of time!
Brad

Quote:

Originally posted by bbrex I agree with those above, Kitemaker4 and Corey, COMMON SENCE, lack of experience, no safety system ( I would think kite killers would be a must for inexperienced flight) all ingredients for disaster. Again someone who didn't respect the wind, the power of traction kites or the advice of a more experienced flier. Sorry to hear it, but it was only a matter of time! Brad

Matter of time? Who says this isn't happening more often with out us knowing?

True, I yell at my friends when they pull out their 7m Ace when I'm skudding about on my 3m Legend. ('Are you stupid?!')

Yikes!! This is definitely one lesson I don't want to learn for myself!

I hope he recovers and ends up a bit smarter for the mistake.

Common sense is not so common.
Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)

"Wise men learn more from fools, than fools from the wise." (Anonymous)

Just a couple of appropriate quotations for the day...

I'm not sure I am wise, but I do now have experience. And the flipside is that I probably learned from his experience. He apparently didn't listen to about 3 bits of advice. Get some kite killers, don't fly in more than 6-8 mph to start, and don't hover the kite directly overhead in gusty winds. It took all 3 of these mistakes to cause the accident.

Imagine all the kites that get sold without the 30 minute lesson I gave Dustin before he left with the kite. I was flying it while talking to him about the do's and don'ts. He is about 23 and if like me at the same age, didn't have any sense of mortality yet. It certainly wasn't the kite's fault or the fault of fixed bridles in general. It wasn't my fault because I gave him much more than most any kite customer would get, certainly had he placed the order directly from Pansh, he would've gotten a kite in a bag (no offense intended). I wish I had thrown in a set of kite killers but they couldn't take the place of months of experience and didn't come with the kite to start with. Free will is the bottom line. We all have it, and can let it hurt us or let us fly another day.

Hey man, I was suggesting that you were the wise,... not the fool. You put the info out to him....

The primary safety with a fixed bridle when you are not hooked in is to just let go. With a dude who just bought a new to him kite - he didn't want to let go... that is what got him into trouble. (or he was in a situation where it wasn't safe to let go - same thing - he put himself there)

I understood you but am a little humbled right now. Sorry for not being clear there. I told him that it wasn't a big deal to turn the kite loose and just chase it down, if things got hairy. I explained that it would just fall to the ground pretty quickly with no one holding back on the handles. I'm sure though that he was in the air and in trouble in half a second and committed but not knowing what to do next. Keeping the kite heading to the ground just won't work out if it's already gone that bad, and neither will turning loose for that matter.

Quote:

Originally posted by PrairieWind Hey man, I was suggesting that you were the wise,... not the fool. You put the info out to him.... The primary safety with a fixed bridle when you are not hooked in is to just let go. With a dude who just bought a new to him kite - he didn't want to let go... that is what got him into trouble. (or he was in a situation where it wasn't safe to let go - same thing - he put himself there)

[Edited on 3-4-2008 by BeamerBob]

Sorry that this happened.

He must have been young enough that he didn't know what end should be puckering (worried).

My first kite was a 3.3 Blade Mk 1 - gave me enough humble pie without being spanked that I learned a lot of respect for the wind and any kite.




[Edited on 3-4-2008 by PrairieWind]

pain has it's rewards......

now he knows.....

the kite did X-zackly what its suppose to do and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have made any difference if it was a de-power or not

some pay more than others for experience

never the less, sad to hear about any type of kite related injurys

[Edited on 3-4-2008 by KYTE SLINGER]

You're right slinger. Inanimate objects can't be held responsible when they are being operated by someone with choices and a brain that can decide. I really hate it for the guy anyway. He is healing till early June.

Quote:

Originally posted by KYTE SLINGER pain has it's rewards...... now he knows..... the kite did X-zackly what its suppose to do and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have made any difference if it was a de-power or not some pay more than others for experience never the less, sad to hear about any type of kite related injurys [Edited on 3-4-2008 by KYTE SLINGER]

I hope we get well soon! Cambell is right I learned from that. Its not the kites fault! KYTE SLINGER is also correct We learn from our pain. I made a bad choice the other day also My 3m was down and I did not have a smaller kite to fly and instead of packing up I chose to fly a bigger kite Bad decision.

[Edited on 04/26/07 by Sthrasher38]

Ok, you learned something from someones mistake and maybe your mistake too. Now act on it and pick up one of those 1.4m Beamers or a 1-1.5m Profoil so you can still have fun even when its whistling outside. Those things are hard to keep your eyes on when the wind tops 20! Loads of fun and you won't get yanked off the ground and slammed down again. Maybe a quick step now and then but just tons o fun. You can still be a "man" with less than 3m's of kite out. After all, it is supposed to be a fun thing, not a survival activity. You survived this one and didn't break anything.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sthrasher38 I hope we get well soon! Cambell is right I learned from that. Its not the kites fault! KYTE SLINGER is also correct We learn from our pain. I made a bad choice the other day also My 3m was down and I did not have a smaller kite to fly and instead of packing up I chose to fly a bigger kite Bad decision.

Thanks for the advise. But, I like living on the edge! I just need to learn what I can handle and what I can't. Even if it means a little spanking now and then. I am a safe kiter I had on all my gear. I wasn't trying to prove anything I just wantd to see if I could do it.I had some killer runs at good speed It was the gusts that caught me off guard. I will still fly at that wind speed same kite I learned just to be a little more aware of the conditions. And I should not have had the kite that high in the air opon turn around.

Ok, your kite is more justifiable on wheels. That does let you use a little more power than just flying static.

I notice that when you register for NABX, they ask for your blood type and any meds.
I made the mistake of telling my wife that.
I tried to tell her it's because they will have the Red Cross van there and we will all give donations, but somehow she did not buy it.
She is very smart that way.
But I'll be tossing the First Aid kit in the kite bag, next to all the pads....