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Originally posted by Custheyder In no particular order. 6) Flexifoil Blade IV 4.9m - great kite, but I find it left in the bag more often than not. 22) Pansh Ace 5m - jack od all trades, used in preference to Blade 4.9 Cust. Pansh Sponsorship Group Consultant

I didn't want to hijack the kites owned thread, but found this perplexing. I've flown both the Ace 5.0 and the 4.9 Blade and my experience was quite different. I had a 6m Ace I sold along with a 5m Blaze to contribute to purchasing my blade and to eliminate redundancy in my quiver. I've not missed either Pansh once since shipping them off. I guess that's why there is room in the market for many brands and models of kites.

BeamerBob
My experiences with pansh have been less than stellar, so bare that in mind. I found that they are not constant and that there is great varation kite to kite, I would expect some. It may be that the ace has more desirable characteristics for Custheyder than the blade. Everybody like differing things, I personally avoid high lift kites. My choice I ended up with an exceptionally lifty ace and well I never use it a friend loves it for it's lift so I kept it for him to use. That is my guess. Also 'Pansh Sponsorship Group Consultant' sounds like there is an interest in Pansh as a company and that MAY influence the choice.

That is pretty amazing although i've never flown a pansh so i can't comment, but to take on the legendary blade.... well.... what ever makes you happy

I've heard about variations in flight characteristics, but the reason I'm perplexed is that the Blade and Ace are so much alike in design intent, AR, lift, and general shape (they are uncannily alike in shape when you see them side by side) that I couldn't match up my experiences with someone preferring the Ace. It is even more difficult to fathom when you consider the versatility offered with the AAA on the Blade. Like I said originally, I'm glad there are so many choices available to make everyone happy, and no choice is wrong if you are happy with it.

before you guys get on Cust too hard maybe you should ask him what he uses it for. I'm not sure what kind of flying he does, but maybe the blade didn't fit his style of flying.
I know cust can take care of himself on this topic, so give him a chance to respond to a topic that is specifically pointed at him before everyone chimes in with their anti-pansh speeches.

I think I've been very careful to not say anything bad about Pansh here. I don't feel like I've been insulting or disparaging to custheyder either. We have a difference of opinion in this case but as stated above, his opinion isn't wrong just because it is different from mine. The two kites match up well in design intent for the sake of comparison. I would be very interested in hearing Custheyder talk openly about what he does with the kites, and in what conditions he flies that formulated his opinion about which kite he takes out of the bag when it's time to fly.

I don't think I said anything that would be bothersome to anyone did I? If some body h is having fun and not hurting anybody else they can do what they like.

I own a Blade IV 4.9 and have flown the Pansh. I'm glad the Pansh left my house. Not as lifty as the Blade, not as stable, not of a high quality build.

But if your on a tight budget then a Pansh would fit. However, if your buying a power kite then your budget can't be super tight and you could save for a couple more months and get a higher quality kite.

Scott

I like my ace, and I like my blade... They do different things, esp when one factors in the AAA settings...

The Ace I know well, but the Blade has a lot more depth to it, more versatile...

I'm waiting for custheyder's take!

Like car salesman, you'll never see a rep from Ford driving a Chevy, nor will they ever pick the other over their own product.....FWIW.

I still preach, fly before you buy. It's the only way to see if any kite is going to work for your style of flying.

Okay, first off, yes I do have associations with Pansh. I'm not hiding it in any way. Everything everyone has said is perfectly fair and I'm not feeling "bashed" at all. I can perfectly understand why many folk would be shocked at my position on the legendary Blade. I started with a Blade III and I had both the 5m Ace and the Blade IV before my association really started to strengthen with Pansh. So is it an influence, I can't say it isn't because subconsiously it probably is. It's not a concious bias though, ask me about a Blaze II and you'll be surprised.... I'm not a fan, but recent reports of how to tune the Blaze II for best performance might make me change my mind. That's all I ever ask of anyone, keep an open mind.

Now don't get me wrong, the Blade IV is a brilliant kite, the AAA is great for tuning the kite to how you want to fly it. I do think that the Blade has been put on such a pedastle that even if the Blade V came out and was crap (very very much doubt it) there'd still be enough adulation to carry it.

So how do I use the Blade and the Ace? ... now your going to think I'm insane ... you might be right ... in a buggy, and not for jumping.

So why do I prefer the Ace. It's purely down to the flying characteristics of the kite. The Ace is a lot more raw compared with the Blade. The Blade is very refined and smooth. Set for traction it does what it is supposed to do, it pulls hard and without much drama in the turns.

The Ace is rougher but I find it's feedback more immediate. In my hands it flies faster than the Blade but yes there are butt clenching moments when you come to the turns. You just have to be brave and throw the Ace round without it hitting the zenith. Match the right sized Ace to the wind and it's manageable. I supoose you could characterise me as an aggressive flier and the rawness of the Ace suits my agressive flying nature.

I haven't had the Blade out in ages, perhaps I should give her another chance, but that's just it isn't it, exactly as I stated I've been getting out the Ace in preference to the Blade and that's on my time, when I'm the only one on the beach.

Everyone has preferences in how they like a kite to fly. That's why there are always such heated debates about which kite is the best. As you saw from my list I've owned a fair range of kites, and still do, but that's still not all the kites I've flown. You can add in YaS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s, Sammi's, U-Turn Oxygens, Crossfires, etc. We swap kites on the beach on the Isle of Man because it's hard for us to get to places where we can demo kites. So we fly everyone elses and then decide if we like them or not.

If you prefer a Blade, great! Fly the Blade and be happy, no problem to me at all. One of my best mates over here loves the Blade and doesn't get on with the Ace..... He's still my mate! If you get a chance to fly an Ace, have a go, what have you got to lose?... as I said at the begining, keep an open mind.

Cust.

See, no one was badgering. That's exactly what I was interested in hearing. I even agree with his analogy of why he likes the Ace. But my flying style appreciates what Cust said were attributes of the blade, and that's why I prefer it over the Ace. Good conversation.

Thanks Bob .... so if Pansh can produce a low lift, realatively easy handling, fast and smooth kite you'd be interested in having a fly? *cough* sprint *cough* lol.

...but I'm here not to pimp Pansh kites, but to answer any direct questions about them. People who've met me know I'm quite an approachable bloke who'll talk kites (any flavour) till the beer barrel's dry.

Quality of Pansh kites has been mentioned above, now unlike most manufacturers Pansh run a continuous improvement scheme with their kites. It's their own factory so it's easy for them to do that. If you bought a kite a couple of years ago and have never looked at a Pansh kite since you'd be surprised how far the quality has come. I have an email from a very well respected person complimenting Pansh on their build quality. These improvements will continue to come. Fixtures and fittings like lines, handles and bags are never going to be as high in quality as a kite costing 3 times as much. It's the quality of the kite that is most important I think.

I'm not a car salesman and you will see my flying other kites. I have to! Otherwise how can I make informed comment on similar kites? I'd be as bad at the Pansh bashers that have never flown a Pansh! Oh, and you'll never hear me saying any kite is awful. They all have their place, no matter who made them.

Stability also mentioned above... it might be the way I fly them, but I have fewer tip tuck problems with the Ace. Now my take on that is familiarity. I probably know the Ace much better. Speed probably comes under familiarity as well. When you know a kite you invariably fly it much better than another kite. One kites ... errr... "features" ...you learn to compensate for and those compensations can completely mess up the flight of another kite. Net result, you don't think much of the other kite because it doesn't fly as you want it to and has some odd .... "features", even if it's your compensations causing them. Is that making sense?

It's like Peter Lynn and Flysurfer .... it's a totally different feeling flying something like a Venom and then something like a Speed II. Not everyone can get used to it. Some then go the whole hog and state that they have flown both and X is better than Y. Personal opinion only, but unfortunately there are parrots to repeat it.

I think that's everything addressed from the thread

Cust.

I've only been at this for a year and a half, so most of my opinions are just being formed. I just go with equipment I have a chance to try, that I appreciate the quality of, and enjoy flying. Take one of those characteristics away and I'm out. I also like dealing with people I have a relationship with. So who knows. If Pansh makes a Blade contender for $200, it should be a success at least with the open mind or budget conscious crowd.

Well said Custheyder! I found that every kite has 'features' including its price and every person needs some more and others. I have found that every location (even a few kms apart) have different wind and the 'features' become more or less pronounced in differing wind conditions so it can be a really regional issue as well. Everybody has biases and trouble arises from not admitting them or understanding them.

I tried a blade once... on ice... gusty winds... It was not a great experience. I am not a huge fan of it either.

I have been meaning to change the AOA on my ace as it flys slowly with a lot of lift. I just can't find the time to mess with it. Mine is an old one slightly over 2 years I think? :puzzled: I can't remember... I though it would be a fast kite looking at it but it isn't, it is slower than my access 10m... I have come to think it is just mine not the newer ones... ??