I'm gonna take these words and put real hands-on experience behind them tomorrow. We've got the potential for clean 25km/h winds all day long tomorrow and the PL Arc Calculator says I should be JUST at the low end of the Guerilla (flown it lots in 25k already actually), the mid to top end of the Phantom and Venom 16 and at the top end of the 19.

Any words of advice so I don't end up in the next town over?

Have fun! Like to hear how you make out on that Venom 16. I came oh so close to buying that thing.

I weigh about 180lbs (80 or so kilo's) and Ive found that the wind gauge that was posted for the PL's to be quite accurate - if anything a tad low. As an example the 13m Venom I is calculated for my weight to be 10 to 25mph - I have flown it in 27mph and I probably could have pushed it to 30, but I would have been at the ragged edge of power. As far as I'm concerned the low wind range, 10mph, is a farce in that it's enough wind to keep the kite in the air but that's about it. I have a feeling that the 10 will not be all that strong but shouldn't be a total waste in 25kmh winds. I can't give you much more than that because I have yet to fly my other PL's since there hasn't been any wind around here in the last 2 weeks. I hope that helps a little. I wish I had some 25kmh winds - have a good one.

P.S. post your findings so I can get a heads up on how your guerilla handles in those winds.

This summer when we had the Guerilla out at Tagish Lake in the Yukon in those oh so clean winds we were holding it with good power with 25km/h winds. Trimming it right out and setting the lines to the front rear leads was the best power. Mind you, body dragging wasn't an option (not enough wind for that). The 14m Raven we had in Hawaii was a machine in the same winds. Just park it, pull in a bit on the bar and off you went, dragging merrily. I'd bet that the 16 would have been roughly the same.

I'll let you know how it goes. Can't fly the Venom (haven't fixed the tear yet) but have packed the Phantom. Last weekend the Guerilla nearly sent me sailing and REALLY kicked up a stink in the bug. One of those "How on earth am I gonna stop this freight train" moments. Quite fun & hairy all at the same time but we were reading 25 MILES per hour that day by the time I got it down.

Was the wind speed 25mph? How does the 10 turn when properly powered. Thanks for the info.

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Originally posted by flexiblade Was the wind speed 25mph? How does the 10 turn when properly powered. Thanks for the info.

25 km/h is only about 15 mph

Yup - MPH. It was amazing. BUt more than I wanted to be holding onto. Actually it wasn't that bad but I was trying to land it assisted and unknowingly the side I was dropping it down on had a big building upwind making it all lumpy so she luffed, carried back into the power zone and powered up sending me running. Tried again before I realized what was going on and

Prior to that chaos the rig was very responsive. Domdino - who I got the kite from - called it a "friendly kite" or something like that and it is. Perhaps that's why you can fly the pants off of it and it reacts nice and quick. Doesn't seem to have a really broad depower but it's not bad at all for the vintage I'd guess. You can sheet it in or out for loads of range but that's different than what I think of depower as.

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Originally posted by macboy . You can sheet it in or out for loads of range but that's different than what I think of depower as.

Interesting ??????

Maybe I have it backwards in my head ???????

To ME , Depower is exactly the amount of reaction you get by trimming the bar.
Range is the limits of your trim strap changing your top and bottom end of your available depower ????

An example I am thinking of is the Sky Country Alasca I tried. This is one sweet kite . I was flying it on an Ozone bar and it was clear to me that the kites range was huge but that the bar restricted the depower available from this kite. Being able to trim the AOA from the bar more would have increased the depower. The trim strap worked well as far as changing the wind range ?

Am I all screwed up on these terms ?????

I suspect that you will enjoy the 10m in 25mph winds ? You won't need to worry about being over powered. It should be performing as normal in those winds. Nothing like implanting those memory reflexes as a 1st step. If there is enough wind for it to fly normal I suggest you stick with it ?

The guy I bought my 10 from said he had it out in winds that were gusting up to 45mph and didn't have any oh crap feelings about it - I bought it primarily for higher winds (30 to 40mph). I also picked up a 5m airush flow (LEI) for the same purpose but have not had a chance to really fly either one - it will be nice to do a side by side comparison of these two kites - I think the flow will be a little twitchier in the high winds.

the 15/16 should be fine in 25mph pull in the strap a little maybe a third to half way

or the 10m would be fun.... loop it crazy.

with 20-25mph, the 16 is really in its element . monster jumps, almost cable like. real power on tap , just a little in and direction and you're off like a jet cranking up wind.

ah, your weight? 190lbs+ then the above applies if not, then go with the 10

the calculator thing is dead on

be safe

have fun

Okay. So I chickened out. Real wind today was 15mph gusting to 25mph but I swear it felt like a million mph. I consulted my PL chart and even still I chickened out despite the G10 bottom end being listed at 15mph. Kinda spent the night giving my inner chicken an a$$ kicking and have resolved to AT LEAT TRY next time (maybe tomorrow).

Kinda frustrated with myself right now.....

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Maybe I have it backwards in my head ??????? To ME , Depower is exactly the amount of reaction you get by trimming the bar. Range is the limits of your trim strap changing your top and bottom end of your available depower ???? An example I am thinking of is the Sky Country Alasca I tried. This is one sweet kite . I was flying it on an Ozone bar and it was clear to me that the kites range was huge but that the bar restricted the depower available from this kite. Being able to trim the AOA from the bar more would have increased the depower. The trim strap worked well as far as changing the wind range ?

Maybe I'm the backwards one. I thought "range" was the lowest to highest winds you could fly in, achieved by sheeting all the way in for light winds and all the way out when it's blowing (I guess attachment points come into play here too then). Depower then being the "on-the-fly" range achieved through sheeting the bar in/out. Does the trim strap increase the amount of depower of does the amount of depower remain the same but the high and low end of that power change depending on the trim?

I guess it doesn't really matter but now I'm curious. Maybe if I'm misunderstanding something it'll help me sort out some other curiosities of mine.

From my experience with the 13m Venom I've found this to be true - sheeting in (pulling the the strap that the center lines are attached to making them shorter) gives less power - depowers the kite. Sheeting out (Letting the center lines out making them longer) increases power. That 10m guerilla should be sheeted in on launch and then sheeted out all the way for 15mph - half way for 25mph - sheeted in all the way for anything above 35mph. This all depends on what your comfort level is and what you plan on doing with it. I've always found the sheeting in/'out depower/range terminology something that is usually sorted out in one on one discussions since everyone has their own sense of these terms whether they are right or wrong.

And yes the trim strap adjusts the top power band that the kite produces and the bar adjusts the amount of power just below the power band. In gusty conditions the trim strap should be adjusted to highest wind speed that the wind is developing. 25mph gusts - the trim strap should be set at half (again whatever maximum feel your willing to go) so when cruising you can have the bar pulled all the way towards you and if a 25mph gust hits it will pull the bar out of your hand and power the kite to whatever the trim strap setting is at.

trim strap= set for conditions allows bar to be set for maximum(or minimum) effect....a pilots' feel for how much you want or need, only time and use will bring you to know this FEEL.

bar =throttle for POWER... not kite speed

set it half way, launch...if it's mushy, no lift...let the trim out

if it's huge power with the bar up at its limit pull in the trim til it becomes less and the bar effective.

if the trim is all the way pulled in and the bar is at its limit at the top you at the upper limit of the kite and a smaller kite is needed. BTW, the kite choice at this point has been poor and a very dangerous event is at hand.

unfortunately high wind exposure can be a rough experience, but after you get a taste and feel for it will be sweet

space and safety reflexes are essential

always choose smaller and too many twist the safety can be compromised

you are ready when you are ready